Would You Guarantee Dubas' Job For 2022-23 If It Meant Holding On To Our Futures?

[Bomber0104]

For a GM lifespan 3 years is nothing, give the guy a freaking chance.

Yeah maybe for a guy with some actual NHL experience in that role and some past success to fall back on...

A rookie GM like Dubas was always going to either work or fail spectacularly, and so far the fails have been exactly that.

One more and he's gone.

Did you know that as a % of the Cap both Matthews and Marner contracts were lower than Crosby & Ovechkin second contract. And that Crosby's second contract was 5 years?

What does this have to do with anything?

I'd hope their contracts are cheaper than the two best players of their time.

 

[Stephen]

I have no personal investment in him - I just like my team having a good GM. You don't have to be personally invested in somebody to call out somebody else attempting to revise history to make factually incorrect claims about them. I'd prefer that we stick to honest and truthful evaluations, and suggestions that will help the team.

So you think the truth is Shanahan hired everyone for a two or three year window in 2015 and the plan was to let Kyle take in the middle of a build and change direction and let everyone else walk out independent of what the results were?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If you fire him now here are the 3 options .

1. Hire an internal GM, and that isn't any better.

2. Hire an external GM and in their first 5 weeks there is the Expansion Draft, Entry Draft, UFA/RFA. Just asking for a disaster. That's assuming you can hire one the same day you fire Dubas.

3. Do the three events in #2 without a GM

Those are all terrible ideas. Dubas has only been GM for 3 years. He's only had 1 season with 82 games FFS. It's really unfair to get rid of him that quick, it looks bad on the organization if a GM lifespan is 3 years.

Hell Brian Burke had 5 years, never made the playoffs, and traded 2 firsts for Kessel

How does the Brian Burke example help your case? People like me were screaming... SCREAMING... for him to be fired after year 3. Wouldn't that have been better in hindsight? The lesson learned from that is you DON'T just give 5 years no matter what. If the gm sucks and only makes horrible decisions, you don't say "Well... he hasn't gotten his 5 years yet". You fire him.

 

[4thline]

it's not hard to see what your attempting , your trying to shift the blame to players not acquired by Dubas to defend his performance to date

Haha yes. Saying he's made his bed and will have to lay in it regarding the two players that he's gone out of his way to
accommodate is shifting blame. Who cares if he acquired them? If he didn't believe in them he should have moved them. He didn't.

As much as you try to pin everything under the sun to the JT signing - that's not what Lou would have done differently. He wanted JT here and was willing to pay. He wanted JT on the Island and was willing to pay. He wanted Panarin on the island and was willing to pay. The biggest difference would have been not sticking his neck out to bet on M&M, bending to their demands and betting on them living up to it. Dubas was willing. If they don't deliver it will be his downfall, and Lou would have been right to play hardball/ move them as expendable.

 

[socko]

I can guarantee he wouldn't have had a job this past season if I had any say in it.

 

[Dreakmur]

Did you know that as a % of the Cap both Matthews and Marner contracts were lower than Crosby & Ovechkin second contract. And that Crosby's second contract was 5 years?

Did you know that Crosby and Ovechkin were way better than Matthews and Marner on their ELCs?

 

[justashadowof]

I'm so happy all the posters here are able to predict the future and how to make the Leafs win the Cup. I wonder why Shanahan isn't surfing HFBoards to find his new GM.

Not really an argument just a provocation.

 

[LeafsFan89]

I question some of Dubas' decisions. But it seems a lot of posters don't recognize that it's not his fault Mitch and Auston have not translated their regular season high point totals into post-season point totals.

I blame more the players than Dubas at this point for not giving a shit. If he fails to change this mindset by not shipping out players that don't give a shit, then yes, that's on him and should be let go.

 

[Bomber0104]

The reason we lost the Montreal series is because Matthews and Marner didn't show up, and Tavares, who was one of Dubas' biggest moves, didn't even get to play in the series. Is that somehow Kyle's fault?

All three were signed by Dubas to $11M deals.

Had he not maxed out his own cap in signing those players, maybe some additional depth players could have helped.

Sorry but no matter how hard you try to spin it, the buck stops with the GM.

 

[hotpaws]

I’m actually not especially a Lou fan. I appreciate his success but don’t really find his program based approach and de-emphasis of star players or depressing offensive production in favour of collective success to be a model I want for my team. I don’t think the Islanders have championship potential even though they win rounds.

Philosophically I’d be much closer to Kyle Dubas. I actually like the possession game and think there’s nothing better than the way Lidstrom and Rafalski used to pitch the puck around and hold possession for the 2000s Red Wings.

But my problem with Dubas is he’s not executing the vision with actual success. So I don’t care who does it, as long as someone does it properly. Just like I don’t care about Mitch Marner if we can get someone who can do his job better.

any system works with the right players and it's not like Lou had the option of signing McD and turned him down , he's basically played like every other GM the cards that were dealt to them and so far he's played them fairly well

Dubie's failing because his lack of knowledge on how to build a team has caught up with , anyone can come up with pretty theories on what style of team you want to build but building it is the difficult part since you can't just pick and choose whoever you want off other teams rosters .

 

[Dreakmur]

That's not even true. We just had our best year with this core.

We finished 6th in the league, while playing weaker teams than we normally would have.

We've been highly competitive against everybody we've faced, from lower end teams to the best teams in the league.

Yes, the Lou-assembled and Babcock-coached teams were very competitive against Washington and Boston.

The Dubas-assembled and Keefe-coached teams have only faced bottom-feeders... and lost.

I'm not looking to get into a whole prospect discussion. There are threads and forums for that. I'm merely pointing out that prospects and prospect pools can be and are evaluated all the time, and our prospect pool and pipeline is healthy and unquestionably better now than it was when Dubas took over.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that our entire prospect pool had just recently made the jump to the NHL....

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I have no personal investment in him - I just like my team having a good GM. You don't have to be personally invested in somebody to call out somebody else attempting to revise history to make factually incorrect claims about them. I'd prefer that we stick to honest and truthful evaluations, and suggestions that will help the team.

Dekes, you argue in defense of Dubas in a manner that can by now be described as "suspicious". You don't even participate in gdt's or discuss the team in any other capacity. For a lot of us, the continuous first round exits demand significant change. I'm fine with Dubas having one last chance IF a MASSIVE shakeup occurs (like trade Marner). But this whole "let's just try the exact same thing again" narrative has worn thin on everyone. I was once the "outsider" calling for Dubas to be fired (as I correctly foresaw what the unprecedented dramatic overpayments would do to the team), but no longer. The vast majority of fans can see the writing on the wall. The excuses you make were exhausting after the Columbus loss... but now doing it all over again for the Habs... It's just too much at this point.

 

[socko]

I question some of Dubas' decisions. But it seems a lot of posters don't recognize that it's not his fault Mitch and Auston have not translated their regular season high point totals into post-season point totals.

I blame more the players than Dubas at this point for not giving a shit. If he fails to change this mindset by not shipping out players that don't give a shit, then yes, that's on him and should be let go.

Dubas paid them as much as UFAs who are proven superstars. So they should be better than proven superstars since they weren't UFAs. Since they were paid more than any comparable in history they should be better than anyone in history. Yes, what I'm saying is, it's totally Dubas's fault despite your faulty statement.

 

[McSnypsky]

Really?

I doubt they are going to finish ahead of Boston or Tampa.
I believe Florida and Montreal (maybe even Ottawa?) will be in the mix for 3rd along with the Leafs
If they get into wildcard territory now you throw the teams from the Metro into the mix.

They don't get to play a shortened season where they never face another Top 10 team like this one. There is going to be increased pressure down the stretch, and we all know how this team performs under any pressure.

Montreal won't make the playoffs, you might think they are built for the playoffs but they are not built for the season that's called differently over 82 games.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I question some of Dubas' decisions. But it seems a lot of posters don't recognize that it's not his fault Mitch and Auston have not translated their regular season high point totals into post-season point totals.

I blame more the players than Dubas at this point for not giving a shit. If he fails to change this mindset by not shipping out players that don't give a shit, then yes, that's on him and should be let go.

That's why everyone was making arguments that Dubas paid too much for "unproven" players. It was an outrageous gamble. The better decision would have been to do what all the other gm's do, and sign your star players to fair market value.

 

[Mugzy97]

All three were signed by Dubas to $11M deals.

Had he not maxed out his own cap in signing those players, maybe some additional depth players could have helped.

Sorry but no matter how hard you try to spin it, the buck stops with the GM.

Nope you're wrong.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So you think the truth is Shanahan hired everyone for a two or three year window in 2015 and the plan was to let Kyle take in the middle of a build and change direction and let everyone else walk out independent of what the results were?

Shanahan hired Lou to be GM for 3 years and a senior advisor for 4 years after that - something that Lou was entirely aware of and on board with. During that time, Dubas was brought along as his successor. Shanahan stuck to the plan, and Dubas, highly sought after and deserving of the role, waited and was then offered the job. There was no "power grab" by Dubas, as you falsely claimed.

 

[Bomber0104]

Nope you're wrong.

Oh ok so someone not named Kyle Dubas signed those three players for $33.52 million combined cap-hit per year?

 

[hotpaws]

Haha yes. Saying he's made his bed and will have to lay in it regarding the two players that he's gone out of his way to
accommodate is shifting blame. Who cares if he acquired them? If he didn't believe in them he should have moved them. He didn't.

As much as you try to pin everything under the sun to the JT signing - that's not what Lou would have done differently. He wanted JT here and was willing to pay. He wanted JT on the Island and was willing to pay. He wanted Panarin on the island and was willing to pay. The biggest difference would have been not sticking his neck out to bet on M&M, bending to their demands and betting on them living up to it. Dubas was willing. If they don't deliver it will be his downfall, and Lou would have been right to play hardball/ move them as expendable.

yup the poor Dubie is a genius but he banked on two failed kids he didn't draft excuse

soon to be followed by ''what other choice did he have but to ride M and M , the city would have strung him up if he traded instead of re-signing them''

 

[egd27]

On the moves they make, the team they put together, where the team was 3 years ago compared to where it is now. I think he's done a good job, just hasn't got playoff success yet.

He's not the one who puts on the skates

He inherited a 105 point team, and in 3 years hasn't been able to improve on that enough to win a playoff round. That's not doing a good job, it's abject failure.

No, he's the one who picks the guys that will put on the skates, as well as the guys that will bring out the best in the skaters.

 

[Dreakmur]

Dekes, you argue in defense of Dubas in a manner that can by now be described as "suspicious". You don't even participate in gdt's or discuss the team in any other capacity. For a lot of us, the continuous first round exits demand significant change. I'm fine with Dubas having one last chance IF a MASSIVE shakeup occurs (like trade Marner). But this whole "let's just try the exact same thing again" narrative has worn thin on everyone. I was once the "outsider" calling for Dubas to be fired (as I correctly foresaw what the unprecedented dramatic overpayments would do to the team), but no longer. The vast majority of fans can see the writing on the wall. The excuses you make were exhausting after the Columbus loss... but now doing it all over again for the Habs... It's just too much at this point.

I'm actually more concerned with his hiring of Keefe than his overpayments of Marner, Matthews, and Nylander.

 

[ottomaddox]

Dekes, you argue in defense of Dubas in a manner that can by now be described as "suspicious". You don't even participate in gdt's or discuss the team in any other capacity. For a lot of us, the continuous first round exits demand significant change. I'm fine with Dubas having one last chance IF a MASSIVE shakeup occurs (like trade Marner). But this whole "let's just try the exact same thing again" narrative has worn thin on everyone. I was once the "outsider" calling for Dubas to be fired (as I correctly foresaw what the unprecedented dramatic overpayments would do to the team), but no longer. The vast majority of fans can see the writing on the wall. The excuses you make were exhausting after the Columbus loss... but now doing it all over again for the Habs... It's just too much at this point.

You can't blame Dekes for defending the home team here. I also think that defending the home team becomes a shield/allows permission to create such wild posts/excuses.

 

[socko]

yup the poor Dubie is a genius but he banked on two failed kids he didn't draft excuse

soon to be followed by ''what other choice did he have but to ride M and M , the city would have strung him up if he traded instead of re-signing them''

I was begging him to not cave to Nylander. Check the post history. I wasn't alone. I just can't believe how brutal a job he has done. Beyond my worst fears. I just don't understand how this guy has more than a few family members behind him at this point. And mom should be wavering in her support.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

soon to be followed by ''what other choice did he have but to ride M and M , the city would have strung him up if he traded instead of re-signing them''

I can answer that. Sign them to fair market value or let them sit. They hold no leverage (the offer sheet threat was a made up Toronto narrative that doesn't apply to literally any other teams star rfa's). They would have caved.

 

[hotpaws]

I question some of Dubas' decisions. But it seems a lot of posters don't recognize that it's not his fault Mitch and Auston have not translated their regular season high point totals into post-season point totals.

I blame more the players than Dubas at this point for not giving a shit. If he fails to change this mindset by not shipping out players that don't give a shit, then yes, that's on him and should be let go.

they didn't give a shit last year either including Tavares and Dubas didn't change anything so why do we keep giving him another year ?