WJC: Canada's #1 goaltender

[richardn]

Not that I disagree that confidence can alter play, however all your points are irrelevant statistically as Pogges "good camp with the Leafs" occured after his stat inflation and trade from Prince George.

You make it sound like he blew chunks when he played on Prince George because he went much higher in the draft then Ellis did. The fact that Pogge went to Calgary and made an imidiate impact does not mean the team is making the goalie. Fact is Pogge was there best player in the playoffs that year and stole a few games. Who knows why his stats got better all of sudden maybe it was that he faced more shots in Calgary, maybe because he was closer to home in Calgary or maybe the trade gave him a spark which is not uncommon. What ever it was he is certainly a much better goalie today because just being invited to camp speaks volume in it self. Pogge is probably the best of the 4 handling the puck, that I know. We will wait and see what happens, the job will be won in camp now and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Pogge got at least the #2 spot.

 

[Towelie*]

I don't think I have actually said that I picked Pogge over Ellis? I have argued Pogge over Dubnyk... And I did say if it was up to me, it would be Pogge and Ellis... but I never said Pogge would be the starter. Do I think he will be the starter? No probably not, but I do think he will compete for it and could win it... As mentioned before, I hope for Pogge and Ellis, but I don't feel it will happen because of the reputations behind Dubnyk and Price. The way I see it...

1. Ellis
2. Pogge
3. Price
4. Dubnyk


And I don't think I've ever said Pogge would have the starter's job... Correct me if I'm wrong however.

Fair enough.

 

[Towelie*]

You make it sound like he blew chunks when he played on Prince George because he went much higher in the draft then Ellis did. The fact that Pogge went to Calgary and made an imidiate impact does not mean the team is making the goalie. Fact is Pogge was there best player in the playoffs that year and stole a few games. Who knows why his stats got better all of sudden maybe it was that he faced more shots in Calgary, maybe because he was closer to home in Calgary or maybe the trade gave him a spark which is not uncommon. What ever it was he is certainly a much better goalie today because just being invited to camp speaks volume in it self. Pogge is probably the best of the 4 handling the puck, that I know. We will wait and see what happens, the job will be won in camp now and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Pogge got at least the #2 spot.

The bolded part is incorrect. The winning percentage of the Hitmen did not change significantly when Pogge was aquired. In fact, I am not even sure if it went up.

 

[richardn]

I agree, it is overly simplitic to assume one factor. The question then becomes what factor is most dominant? It is impossible to anwser, until he plays for a different team. Until now I think people should recognize this factor - among other ones.

I just don't understand why, if the choice is between Pogge and Ellis, you pick Pogge. You have agreed the question mark is there about Pogge - when no question mark of that nature surrounds Ellis.

No question mark about Ellis?


How about his poor performance in the playoffs last season 0-3 with a 3.42 GA. Compare that to Pogge's playoff performance last year .

 

[richardn]

The bolded part is incorrect. The winning percentage of the Hitmen did not change significantly when Pogge was aquired. In fact, I am not even sure if it went up.

He made am impact on his personal stats. The team continued do good and was lead in the playoffs by Pogge's play which the same can not be said for Ellis's playoff performance last year.

 

[Towelie*]

No question mark about Ellis?


How about his poor performance in the playoffs last season 0-3 with a 3.42 GA. Compare that to Pogge's playoff performance last year .

I am not really debating Ellis, there are question marks on all the goalies.

Ellis played for a less then stellar team, with a terrible defence.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I was a Hitmen season ticket holder last year. Pogge is a good goalie. He wasn't that far off Glass last year. I like his NHL chances and would love to have him as a prospect on my team.

Anybody who hasn't seen him play shouldn't post a lot of BS about how the Hitmen only make him look good.

 

[richardn]

I am not really debating Ellis, there are question marks on all the goalies.

Ellis played for a less then stellar team, with a terrible defence.

They where 2nd place in there division and 3rd best GA in the league but yet they weren't a good team. One could argue that goaltending and defense carried this team to the playoffs and was unable to get the job done in the playoffs for what ever reason.

 

[Attica]

I really think Ellis is going to steal the job. He doesn't have the experience the other guys do, but he has big time skill and consistency.

 

[jixxsaw]

They where 2nd place in there division and 3rd best GA in the league but yet they weren't a good team. One could argue that goaltending and defense carried this team to the playoffs and was unable to get the job done in the playoffs for what ever reason.

one could also argue that playing 70 games would wear any goalie down, and that stellar defense in front of ellis carried them into the 7th seed in the playoffs, and had cape breton had one more point in the standings the Shawinigan Cataractes wouldnt even see playoff action
Ellis was the mvp and carried a subpar team into the playoffs

 

[Canucksrock]

From what i have read and heard, and i can really only comment on Ellis. He is the reason that shawnigan was in any game last eyar stealing games left and right. He played 70! games in the regular season and was just worn out by playoffs. THe defense on team Canada will be good, but not obviously as good as last years. 25 shots a game 30 against good teams. Ellis can handle that hes proven it. Do I think hell get the starting job, no I dont think Sutter likes these types of reflex small goalies. But as a Canuck fan i can hope that he makes it and plays in the gold medal game against Schiender and the USA and it goes to OT in a 0-0 effort! Boring sure but atleast its good for our prospects .

 

[richardn]

one could also argue that playing 70 games would wear any goalie down, and that stellar defense in front of ellis carried them into the 7th seed in the playoffs, and had cape breton had one more point in the standings the Shawinigan Cataractes wouldnt even see playoff action
Ellis was the mvp and carried a subpar team into the playoffs

How do you figure he played 70 games, he only played in 59 games. If he carried the team to the playoffs he sure choked and let the team down when it counted the most, in one of those 4 games he got the hook.

Calgary was also the 8th seed. Also unlike Ellis, Pogge led his team to a 1st round upset over Lethbridge including a double over time win and a shut out. Calgary would not even made the 2nd round with out Pogge.

 

[mooseOAK*]

By the way, what were these "Published reports", I would like to see them. And if it is anyone involved with the Hitmen saying this then it is pretty much worthless, as it would be an obvious conflict of interest to say otherwise.

Wow, nice pre-emptive attack against using the opinions of the people closest to the situation and most knowledgeable. Well played.

But in any event he said that he got jerked around in Prince George, one bad game and the other guy was in there and not having a good team there were plenty of those.

 

[richardn]

Just to clarify the fact Ellis only played in 59 games last year not 70.

Link

 

[Meat Wave]

Just to clarify the fact Ellis only played in 59 games last year not 70.

Link

That remains a league-high for the Q though. I don't see how your point is revelant. The fact remains that he has seen alot of pucks and started 59 out of 70 games for Shawinigan.

 

[richardn]

That remains a league-high for the Q though. I don't see how your point is revelant. The fact remains that he has seen alot of pucks and started 59 out of 70 games for Shawinigan.

I was clearing up some mis information there is a big difference between 70 games and 59.

 

[Anksun]

Isnt Price the only possible returning goalie for next year out of those 4?

If so, he's a lock on this team. From there, there are only 2 remaining things to decided:

1) which one of: Ellis-Pogge-Dubnik will make it.

2) Who will be the starter between Price and one of those 3.

_____________

 

[Digger12]

Isnt Price the only possible returning goalie for next year out of those 4?

If so, he's a lock on this team. From there, there are only 2 remaining things to decided:

1) which one of: Ellis-Pogge-Dubnik will make it.

2) Who will be the starter between Price and one of those 3.

_____________

I may be wrong, but wasn't Dubnyk in the same position last year that Price is in now?

I'd be hesitant to call any of these 4 guys a lock, no matter who's 19 or who can return next season. It's all about who outperforms who at camp, end of story.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Why are people so hung up on goalie stats???

Honestly. If it came down to Stats than why were 4 goalies invited and not 2??

 

[Anksun]

I may be wrong, but wasn't Dubnyk in the same position last year that Price is in now?

I'd be hesitant to call any of these 4 guys a lock, no matter who's 19 or who can return next season. It's all about who outperforms who at camp, end of story.

Sorry, i forget the most important part of my comment:

IF they consider Price at least on par with 2 of those guys, he's in because he can come back next year. You are definitly right, if the other 3 are ahead of him he wont go. Both i still think my 2 points prevent because there is no way all of those 3 guys are clear cut ahead of him at this point. Although the camp could change that (but i would not count on this consider the ridiculously good last month of play from Price.)

 

[Digger12]

Sorry, i forget the most important part of my comment:

IF they consider Price at least on par with 2 of those guys, he's in because he can come back next year. You are definitly right, if the other 3 are ahead of him he wont go. Both i still think my 2 points prevent because there is no way all of those 3 guys are clear cut ahead of him at this point. Although the camp could change that (but i would not count on this consider the ridiculously good last month of play from Price.)

Fair enough.

In my humble opinion, if all 4 guys get an equal opportunity and play to the best of their abilities, Dubnyk and Price will make it.

Unfortunately for me as an Oiler fan, I don't have a lot of faith that Dubnyk will rise to the occasion. He's shown a disconcerting habit of not stealing the show in these high pressure, high intensity types of camps...though he did play well at the Oilers training camp, much better than last season.

With these guys so close together, it's gonna be fun to watch.

 

[Mess]

Anwser this question Mess (Since you seem to be an avid Pogge follower). How can you explain Pogges INSTANT statistical inflation once traded to the Hitmen? Did he wake up over night a better goalie?.

Not sure what last years stats have to do with this years team .. I posted this years stats for Pogge to show how well he has played this season ..

Pogge is a year older, more mature and has worked hard all off season with Eddie Belfour's and the Leafs goalie consultant Steve McKichan .. That may be a factor in his strong play and may be contributing to his success this year ..

The fact that he was not at the summer camp and is now one of four goalies that will represent Team Canada shows that his play this year has caught the eye of the WJC selection committee ..

So no offense intended but whatever you try to toss out as a reason, has no bearing on the outcome and the only thing that will count is Pogge's play and the decision making team that assembles the team ..

Ellis-Plante and Pogge have had better seasons statistically , while Price and Dubynk have international experience ... We will soon find out which factor has more influence when the final team is announced ..

Right now the odds of each goalie is 50/50 as far as I am concerned..

 

[Mizral]

I strongly feel Price is the best of the bunch, but I also feel Pogge will get the job. Both are capable, and both are good selections.

Elis-Plante is good, but is no Price or Pogge.

If I made the team, it'd be Price at #1, and Pogge at #2.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I strongly feel Price is the best of the bunch, but I also feel Pogge will get the job. Both are capable, and both are good selections.

Elis-Plante is good, but is no Price or Pogge.

If I made the team, it'd be Price at #1, and Pogge at #2.

What had Price done to deserve the number 1 job....playing extremely shaky at the under 18 for Canada, how about his subpar performence this year. The best goaltender will get the starting role and I think Ellis is the best option at the moment.

 

[ryz]

Take this for what it is worth (which is probably nothing) but there was one of Blair Macasey (sp?) underlings (scout) on Fan960 in Calgary yesterday and he has been around Brent and Blair for the whole selection process and he said he would be shocked if Pogge wasn't 1 of the 2 guys selected at this point. Keep in mind that Sutter's Rebels play Pogge and the Hitmen often and Sutter has had more than a good look at him.