Williams, Kopitar, Gaborik 4 goals total last 13 games

[Primakov!]

Still Kopitar's fault.

I never said that it's not Kopitar's fault.

What I'm refuting is your point that the team should put more guys on his line that "carry the load" since you might be giving him an easy outlet that causes his game to turn even more one-dimensional than where it's at currently.

This has been a consistent problem in Kopitar's career. He's always had the tendency to defer to the point that he limits his own impact on the ice. Some of his best hockey was on a line with Richardson and Simmonds. Even when that Smyth-Kopitar-Williams line was hot, he wasn't doing much of the driving in creating offensive chances instead limiting himself to a role of a facilitator. It's up to Kopi to figure it out how to maintain that balance on a consistent basis. Is he a problem? No. But great players still have things to improve on.

Right, but in all the years of deferring and facilitating to other players his own game has never dipped to this extent where he's truly taking on the form of a pass-only guy. If he was skating with guys like Brad Richardson and Wayne Simmonds again (even for a short while) it might re-focus his game and allow him to regain some balance in his play style.

The opponents right now can just key in on shutting down his passing options because he's not tallying the shots on goal that would at least make him a credible threat to shoot first. Doing so could ultimately open up opportunities for his teammates as they shift their focus on him instead, which would lend itself to the game he wants to play anyway.

Shoot to pass.

 

[417th]

I think we also have to consider the ram ram ramifications of our making the playoffs this season when considering what to do with Kopitar. IF we are solidly locked in by 2/2 then we won't likely be moving Stoll Williams or Regehr so will risk losing them (or commit to it) to UFA. DL could be looking at this season as the last shot at winning the cup with this set up of our core group. Clearly there will have to be changes to our roster next season for cap reasons alone so what Kopi gets is likely tied into the roster that we can ice for both the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons.

If Kopi is in line for $9mil plus per season for the next several years and we are limited in who we can sign/keep to play along side him it may be smarter to move him when the time comes. Just spit balling but they say that your core should get a 3 to 5 year window at winning the cup together in a best case scenario. Then it is time to make some significant changes. I don't know that the same formula applies to every situation but it is an interesting thought.

 

[Steve Zissou]

People still want to pay Kopitar north of $9M a season? Sorry, Kopitar is a fine player, but the only player the Kings have worth that kind of money is Drew Doughty.

I think we also have to consider the ram ram ramifications of our making the playoffs this season.

What are ram ram ramifications...?

 

[YP44]

To be fair he's still driving play like an animal and a lot of his work is what's enabling the 70s line to run amok. Yes the productions down and the +/- is down severely but I'd put some of that on the team around him as well. Like the rest of the team, he's still doing all of the right things and good stuff will follow. But reading this thread you'd think he was on pace for a 40 point season.

agreed I made mention to the +/- largely being due to voynov and mitchell, but I don't think there is any denying he is having a down year.
Maybe it's because many expected him to become a PPG player or higher with gaborik. so not only is he below last years numbers but well below heightened expectations.
No matter what my position is he is an elite centre I would be ok with earning $9M a year. However he is having a down year and I am hoping that maybe that saves the kings some cap space. Not holding my breath but it would be nice.

 

[417th]

What are ram ram ramifications...?

Awwwwwwww You know........

 

[YP44]

What are ram ram ramifications...?

I ch ch choose Kopitar

 

[Ollie Weeks]

At least Gaborik and Kopitar have been somewhat productive, respectable threats during that specific time. Williams has been ice cold.

 

[Herby]

K17 and I have had plenty of our disagreements on this board, everyone who has been here long enough knows that. He has won some and I have won some but lately we have been seeing eye to eye on many issues (as he gets wiser with age ) Although not so much on Kopitar, but I do understand where he is coming from, which is more than I can say about some of these arguments I have had with people the past few months on you know who.

I still think Kopitar is way underrated here, the days of contending would be over when he left, players like him just don't hit UFA and there is no one in the system to replace him. If Kopi were to just disappear tomorrow I don't see the Kings winning 7 out of 10 like when other star players left

 

[Primakov!]

At least Gaborik and Kopitar have been somewhat productive, respectable threats during that specific time. Williams has been ice cold.

Williams has been making a lot of uncharacteristic turnovers with weirdly timed passes and pucks cutting through the middle of the ice. Not sure if his impending free agency is messing with his head or something, but he hasn't quite been himself this year.

I mean he's coughed up the puck plenty of time before while trying to make a creative offensive play, but it seems to be happening a little more frequently on even basic ones in the neutral zone and during the breakout from the defensive zone.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Justin Williams is still on the Kings? I can't remember the last time I noticed him on the ice.

 

[YP44]

K17 and I have had plenty of our disagreements on this board, everyone who has been here long enough knows that. He has won some and I have won some but lately we have been seeing eye to eye on many issues (as he gets wiser with age ) Although not so much on Kopitar, but I do understand where he is coming from, which is more than I can say about some of these arguments I have had with people the past few months on you know who.

I still think Kopitar is way underrated here, the days of contending would be over when he left, players like him just don't hit UFA and there is no one in the system to replace him. If Kopi were to just disappear tomorrow I don't see the Kings winning 7 out of 10 like when other star players left

I agree that you cannot replace kopitar and LA would no longer be a contending team without him. doesn't mean he isn't having an off year.

BTW when an off year is still producing like he is it speaks to the level of player he is.

 

[tsanuri]

At least Gaborik and Kopitar have been somewhat productive, respectable threats during that specific time. Williams has been ice cold.

But it's not as if he has been cold all year. He is on about the same pace as last year.
When you look at his averages over the last 4 years.
They go .72,.68,.52,.50 points per game. And the difference with the .72 and .50 year in goals a game is 0 both are at .26. So it's the fact that those around him are putting pucks into the net.

 

[Herby]

I agree that you cannot replace kopitar and LA would no longer be a contending team without him. doesn't mean he isn't having an off year.

BTW when an off year is still producing like he is it speaks to the level of player he is.

The thing about Kopitar is he controls the game so much even when he isn't scoring. That is what I never understood in having these debates about MR, it goes well well beyond scoring. Kopitar if he became a 30 point player tomorrow would still have value for his defensive ability, size, reach, smarts etc. This is a down year for Kopitar offensively, but he is still among the best overall centers in the world.

And Kopitar doesn't have to sign July 1st this year, in fact it makes zero sense for him to do it unless the Kings want to pay him more than he is worth. He is better off waiting for the cap to go up in 2016 and for him to be likely coming off a better season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No, but he is on pace for the low to mid 60's, and that's not good enough for a $9M+ cap hit player.

Good thing I've always said 8-8.5 for him

Agreed with others that I'm more worried about williams at this point in the year

 

[Alisa]

I copy Alisa on Wednesday night games. Can't give you the rest of the formula.

I have sucked at FGOG for so long, I really don't know what happened this season.

So, I get 1/7th of the bragging rights when you win, right?

 

[kingsfan]

No, he won't. His number of shots are way down from seasons past. That means fewer goals, and fewer assists as well.



If you can't see that THIS is an off season for Kopitar, you lose credibility on this subject.

While I haven't been to satisfied with Kopitar either, if you want to use points to validate your position you should acknowledge that he's on pace for 65 points, or only five fewer than all of last year. Production wise he's about 10 points below his average roughly but that shouldn't be enough to cause concern since it's not a huge drop off and is really only a slight drop from the year before and there's no indication at all he can't rebound to post 75-80 points next year.

And that's assuming he does hit a hot stretch right away, something he's done in the past down the stretch.

Deserves has everything to do with it in the Kings' organization. That's why Brown's contract is what it is, because it certainly isn't due to him being able to earn that money in future years with his performance.

Kopitar got his money on his 2nd deal. Most of these guys didn't. If Kopitar and his agent can't see that, I'm thinking Dean is going to be pretty pissed off.

No, it really doesn't. Again, I get what you mean but it's not a vacuum here. DL might say to Kopitar that he hasn't earned $9+ million, but if Kopitar says fine, and takes himself to the market do you really think he won't get it?

And you might think fine, take it and go Kopitar. Then what? Do you really think we are a contender without Kopitar? We don't have anyone even close to his skill level in the system and the few prospects we have with top two line skill like Kempe and Zykov are years away. We also don't have the assets to deal for a guy like Kopitar, not that one will be available anyway. The last time a big first line centre in his 20's was traded was Thornton I believe, a decade ago.

You have gone on and on about how LA would be screwed if they signed Kopitar to a $9 million deal for more than about five years. The side of the equation you don't seem to want to answer is how screwed will LA be if Kopitar walks as a UFA? There is a decent chance Kopitar can be productive into his mid-30's as a top line centre (look at Thornton) but do you think we have much of a shot at the cup without Kopitar? Does it make us much better off to have more cap freedom in 2022-2023 at the expense of greatly deminishing our cup chances in the short-term?

 

[likid]

With all this complains that Kopitar will be in mid 60s in points this year and is having an off year I'll repeat again what I wrote few weeks ago.

Since 2008 not a single Kings player with the exception of Kopitar has reached 60 points or more. And Kopitar in that period never had less than 70 points (with the exception of lock-out season, but even then he was on pace for over 70 points in full season).

 

[kingsfan]

With all this complains that Kopitar will be in mid 60s in points this year and is having an off year I'll repeat again what I wrote few weeks ago.

Since 2008 not a single Kings player with the exception of Kopitar has reached 60 points or more. And Kopitar in that period never had less than 70 points (with the exception of lock-out season, but even then he was on pace for over 70 points in full season).

Yep, let's not pay the guy who can do what seemingly no one else can do in LA. We'd be better off with that superstar known as Cap Space. I heard he's really talented but doesn't have any cup rings yet.

 

[tsanuri]

With all this complains that Kopitar will be in mid 60s in points this year and is having an off year I'll repeat again what I wrote few weeks ago.

Since 2008 not a single Kings player with the exception of Kopitar has reached 60 points or more. And Kopitar in that period never had less than 70 points (with the exception of lock-out season, but even then he was on pace for over 70 points in full season).

That's one of those stats that I don't know if I should say great job Kopi or hang my head in shame as a Kings fan.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

While I haven't been to satisfied with Kopitar either, if you want to use points to validate your position you should acknowledge that he's on pace for 65 points, or only five fewer than all of last year. Production wise he's about 10 points below his average roughly but that shouldn't be enough to cause concern since it's not a huge drop off and is really only a slight drop from the year before and there's no indication at all he can't rebound to post 75-80 points next year.

And that's assuming he does hit a hot stretch right away, something he's done in the past down the stretch.



No, it really doesn't. Again, I get what you mean but it's not a vacuum here. DL might say to Kopitar that he hasn't earned $9+ million, but if Kopitar says fine, and takes himself to the market do you really think he won't get it?

And you might think fine, take it and go Kopitar. Then what? Do you really think we are a contender without Kopitar? We don't have anyone even close to his skill level in the system and the few prospects we have with top two line skill like Kempe and Zykov are years away. We also don't have the assets to deal for a guy like Kopitar, not that one will be available anyway. The last time a big first line centre in his 20's was traded was Thornton I believe, a decade ago.

You have gone on and on about how LA would be screwed if they signed Kopitar to a $9 million deal for more than about five years. The side of the equation you don't seem to want to answer is how screwed will LA be if Kopitar walks as a UFA? There is a decent chance Kopitar can be productive into his mid-30's as a top line centre (look at Thornton) but do you think we have much of a shot at the cup without Kopitar? Does it make us much better off to have more cap freedom in 2022-2023 at the expense of greatly deminishing our cup chances in the short-term?

Very well-said.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That's one of those stats that I don't know if I should say great job Kopi or hang my head in shame as a Kings fan.

Use one Stanley Cup to collect tears of each eye.

Then realize that Kopitar lead the playoffs in scoring during each one.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Use one Stanley Cup to collect tears of each eye.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I ch ch choose Kopitar

 

[YP44]

Use one Stanley Cup to collect tears of each eye.

Then realize that Kopitar lead the playoffs in scoring during each one.

love it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Seriously though I can understand people wanting Kopi to do more like they want King to do more, we've seen them both at their best and we just want it to happen more consistently...I don't think it can with Kopi though, he has to just be friggin exhausted.

He absolutely schooled the Sharks and Ducks in the first two rounds, prompting the Hawks to load up two selke candidates on one line against him in Hossa and Toews, who basically played to a stalemate, allowing the 70s line to go on a rampage. Hawks adjusted and put Kane et. al. vs. Richards allowing them to go unchecked. Then game 7 was just cats and dogs living together and goalies hating life. I have a hard time 'faulting' Kopitar for being out of friggin gas after 7 games against two of the biggest 1Cs in the league and his Canadian alter ego. And I think it's crazy to expect him to do what he can do all season because literally only a handful of players in the world can keep up their elite play all year (yet Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Crosby have been MIA in the playoffs in comparison to Kopitar...hmm). We've been spoiled by his health and consistency as I showed in that "kopitar's dead" or whatever thread earlier this year. And part of the reason our other guys are emerging to score is because other teams know better than to load up against carter and leave kopitar and gaborik to run free on their second pairing. Oh god I laugh at the thought of a whole series of Kopitar-Gaborik-Brown/Williams/Lewis vs. Braun/Dillon, hahahaha.