Williams, Kopitar, Gaborik 4 goals total last 13 games

[kingsfan]

I have heard players on the Kings say over and over how good Kopitar is and how they think he is one of the best in the league. I seriously doubt there is a single player in that locker room that views Carter as the #1

While I too think Kopitar is the better player, and I do too think the Kings players think that as well, I don't put much stalk into what players say about teammates. If you are at all critical of a player on your team you tend to get flak, so guys will compliment players left and right. How many negative things did we hear about Sean Avery when he was here? Not much. After he left though the stories started to come out, but while he was a teammate you put on a positive face and even defended him and his actions if need be.

I put more stalk into what the opposition says, like Logan Couture.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...out-anze-kopitar--ryan-getzlaf-231410905.html

“Kopitar is the most underrated center in the NHL. We see him all the time, unfortunately. Because he combines size, strength and intelligence, he’s as difficult to play against as any player in the league. When we’re up against the Kings, I try and play like him. He’s very responsible defensively and checks very well, especially with his stick. He’s one of the best in the league at anticipating where the puck is going and jumping in to cut off cycles.â€

I'm not a Couture fan and I bet he's not much of a Kings fan either, yet he'll heap praise on Kopitar. When a guy as talented as Couture is singing Kopitar's praises that's a good sign.

 

[Jeff18]

If we're talking cap hits, Kopi is currently 13th on the list of NHL centers, with such luminaries as Eric Staal, Jason Spezza, David Krejci, and Paul Statsny ahead of him. I figure he's going to land somewhere between 8 and 8.5 mil, which would put him somewhere between 4th and 6th on the list, behind Crosby (8.7)and in the company of Giroux (8.275) and Staal & Getzlaf (8.25).

Yeah, a 5/6 year deal with around 8 mil cap hit would be ideal. Early 30's is usually the start of the decline towards retirement. Crosby is a steal (barring concussion issues) and Getzlaf is worth 8.25 except his contract was also way to long.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Revisionist history? The way I'm looking at it, the stats show that a higher percentage of his 5on5 assists are coming from secondary assists than previous seasons.

..........A1/60 : A2/60
14/15.......65 : .74
13/14.......75 : .40
12/13.......91 : .33
11/12.......93 : .59
10/11......1.16 : .63

Clearly the amount of primary assists per 60min of ice time has dropped in each of the last 5 seasons, while his secondary assists have increased in each of the last 3.

But this is beside the point, my analysis of Kopitar's play is mostly qualitative. He rarely generates scoring chances for himself or his teammates. It's unacceptable for a number 1 center, and too many of his points are coincidental.

I don't want to sound like I'm unappreciative of him. I've often defended him and felt like those criticizing him we're looking at the grass as being greener on the other side. I'm just frustrated with him, and the organizations' emphasis on his defensive play. Kopitar's skill set is better geared towards offense. I don't think we're getting the most out of him.

Yet those rates are still the highest on the team. That's my point. If you're comparing him to himself vs. him to others, it's kind of like the discussion about how he's getting points on the pp vs. instead of 5v5--who cares where it's coming from if it gets there? Last year this board was going "Oh man, Kopi's generating 5v5 but he's garbage on the PP," now it's "Kopi's got PP points but sucks 5v5." There's only so many points to go around. And I can think of several plays in recent history where Kopi only got a second assist yet was THE major force in the play happening, that's the major issue I have with it. The suggestion is that he's simply a passenger getting points, but he's still the guy lugging the puck through the neutral zone vs. each opponents top checkers and such.

I generally disagree that he's not generating, but I do agree with your last point.

Finally, those singing Carter's praises, I agree and I think he's put himself in a position to succeed through his work ethic as well--but let's be honest and say he's ALSO doing as good as he's doing because of the emphasis on Kopitar. If a team loads up on the 70s instead of Kopitar and Gaborik, watch out. Carter might be our best scoring center but it's not because he's actually better than Kopitar, it's because he gets to play against Oduya/Shaw instead of Toews/Keith, Couture/Braun instead of Thornton/Vlasic, B. Richards (lol)/Staal instead of Stepan/McDonagh (last year's version), Granlund(LOL)/Spurgeon instead of Koivu/Sutter, and so on.

I just think he's getting an absolutely raw deal on this board and look at our record without him in the lineup over the years to see the ripple effect of what happens without. It's okay to be critical, but some of this discourse is frankly embarrassing.

 

[TopT]

Revisionist history? The way I'm looking at it, the stats show that a higher percentage of his 5on5 assists are coming from secondary assists than previous seasons.

..........A1/60 : A2/60
14/15.......65 : .74
13/14.......75 : .40
12/13.......91 : .33
11/12.......93 : .59
10/11......1.16 : .63

Clearly the amount of primary assists per 60min of ice time has dropped in each of the last 5 seasons, while his secondary assists have increased in each of the last 3.

But this is beside the point, my analysis of Kopitar's play is mostly qualitative. He rarely generates scoring chances for himself or his teammates. It's unacceptable for a number 1 center, and too many of his points are coincidental.

I don't want to sound like I'm unappreciative of him. I've often defended him and felt like those criticizing him we're looking at the grass as being greener on the other side. I'm just frustrated with him, and the organizations' emphasis on his defensive play. Kopitar's skill set is better geared towards offense. I don't think we're getting the most out of him.

are you sure you are talking about Kopi ?

 

[TopT]

Yeah, a 5/6 year deal with around 8 mil cap hit would be ideal. Early 30's is usually the start of the decline towards retirement. Crosby is a steal (barring concussion issues) and Getzlaf is worth 8.25 except his contract was also way to long.

For God sake thats Kesel money

 

[Jeff18]

For God sake thats Kesel money

Are you saying that's good or bad? Some like Phil others don't.

30 goal scorer non-floating Phil deserves something close to that.

 

[TopT]

Are you saying that's good or bad? Some like Phil others don't.

30 goal scorer non-floating Phil deserves something close to that.

It was meat as


Phil does not deserve anything close to Kopitar

 

[Jeff18]

It was meat as


Phil does not deserve anything close to Kopitar

My bad. I was kinda thinking that when you spelled his name wrong.

 

[KINGS17]

For God sake thats Kesel money

Phil Kessel is waaaaaay overpaid. He wouldn't be accepted as a comp for any player by a competent GM.

 

[Winger23]

I have heard players on the Kings say over and over how good Kopitar is and how they think he is one of the best in the league. I seriously doubt there is a single player in that locker room that views Carter as the #1

That's fine by me, just my own observations. Like I said I love having both, I Just think carter is more of a threat.

 

[likid]

Finally, those singing Carter's praises, I agree and I think he's put himself in a position to succeed through his work ethic as well--but let's be honest and say he's ALSO doing as good as he's doing because of the emphasis on Kopitar. If a team loads up on the 70s instead of Kopitar and Gaborik, watch out. Carter might be our best scoring center but it's not because he's actually better than Kopitar, it's because he gets to play against Oduya/Shaw instead of Toews/Keith, Couture/Braun instead of Thornton/Vlasic, B. Richards (lol)/Staal instead of Stepan/McDonagh (last year's version), Granlund(LOL)/Spurgeon instead of Koivu/Sutter, and so on.

70's line was cooled down or better say completly shut out with Kopitar injury and him missing three games. So exactly at time, when other teams change their focus from Kopitar line to 70's line and put their best defensive players against them...

 

[Herby]

Carter is not as bad defensively as some of his numbers early last season may have indicated (for obvious reasons). But he is still a ways behind Kopitar in that department. And teams are still game-planning Kopitar more than they do Carter.

Carter is amazing though, he is a #1 center on 2/3 of teams in the NHL.