Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
- Jul 6, 2011
- 34,135
- 3,783
Williams, Kopitar, Gaborik 4 goals total last 13 games
- Thread starter Frolov 6'3
- Start date
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kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Show me where I said that.
I'm well aware production can and often does decline in NHLers overall. My point has always been that Kopitar signed and in the organization, even if overpaid, is a better scenario than seeing him leave after next year as a UFA. I'm picking the best scenario to the situation in my opinion.
But please, continue on with the snarky remarks, it's clearly validating your point.
Pucknut50
Registered User
- Jun 13, 2007
- 1,483
- 138
Kings17 the part your not getting is supporting players are a dime a dozen. Many of those so called great supporting players that go to other teams find they not so great just looked better because they were on teams with Toews and Kane.
In Hockey you need 7 + players with one of them being a goalie, 2 defenseman, and 2 Centers, ?, ?. Then the rest cap is where the coaches and GM's make their money.
Kings have Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Carter, Gaborik, Toffoli, ??????. So by my calculations we need a + defenseman to make a cup run.
Some people in here are missing that Lombardi's primary goal in building a team is to compete for the cup... not have a good team 6-8 years from now. In order to do this the future is leveraged against the opportunity to win now. Do I really care if the Kings have a bunch of bad contracts in say 5 years... the answer is no.... because there is a cycle when it comes to most teams.... bad for a few year= good draft picks like Doughty/Kane/Towes.... you stock up on talent.... then unlike the Oilers you compete in the playoffs....
It would be nice to build a team like Detroit that makes the playoffs pretty much every year... but then they were also helped by hitting a home run in the 7th round.... So unless you can find a superstar in the later rounds the team will need to draft high at some point.
and here I thought it was irrationality just when it came to Richards...
It would be nice to build a team like Detroit that makes the playoffs pretty much every year... but then they were also helped by hitting a home run in the 7th round.... So unless you can find a superstar in the later rounds the team will need to draft high at some point.
and here I thought it was irrationality just when it came to Richards...
TopT
Registered User
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,777
Show me where I said that.
I'm well aware production can and often does decline in NHLers overall. My point has always been that Kopitar signed and in the organization, even if overpaid, is a better scenario than seeing him leave after next year as a UFA. I'm picking the best scenario to the situation in my opinion.
But please, continue on with the snarky remarks, it's clearly validating your point.
a) Just as you did with me, it's implied.
b) Don't be mad when I give as good as I get, and still prove my point.
Some people in here are missing that Lombardi's primary goal in building a team is to compete for the cup... not have a good team 6-8 years from now. In order to do this the future is leveraged against the opportunity to win now. Do I really care if the Kings have a bunch of bad contracts in say 5 years... the answer is no.... because there is a cycle when it comes to most teams.... bad for a few year= good draft picks like Doughty/Kane/Towes.... you stock up on talent.... then unlike the Oilers you compete in the playoffs....
It would be nice to build a team like Detroit that makes the playoffs pretty much every year... but then they were also helped by hitting a home run in the 7th round.... So unless you can find a superstar in the later rounds the team will need to draft high at some point.
and here I thought it was irrationality just when it came to Richards...
wasn't quick a 6th rounder?
I think DL (and most GM's) try and build their teams to win now and next year, and look to detroit,
LA has drafted very well after the first round and I think they have a chance to be a team that competes for years like Detroit.
Speaking of late round studs how good does klindberg look in dallas?
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,777
Some people in here are missing that Lombardi's primary goal in building a team is to compete for the cup... not have a good team 6-8 years from now. In order to do this the future is leveraged against the opportunity to win now. Do I really care if the Kings have a bunch of bad contracts in say 5 years... the answer is no.... because there is a cycle when it comes to most teams.... bad for a few year= good draft picks like Doughty/Kane/Towes.... you stock up on talent.... then unlike the Oilers you compete in the playoffs....
It would be nice to build a team like Detroit that makes the playoffs pretty much every year... but then they were also helped by hitting a home run in the 7th round.... So unless you can find a superstar in the later rounds the team will need to draft high at some point.
and here I thought it was irrationality just when it came to Richards...
You really want to bring up your track record when it comes to Mike Richards?
Yeah, that is funny.
I don't have the exact numbers but Kopitar is over PPG since I believe December 18th.
OVER a PPG. In a year when the leading scorer might not hit 90 points.
Ya he had a slow start. But since then he has been above his career pace. He's been incredibly durable through his career and absolutely does it all for the team. His teammates consider him a top 3 center in the game no doubt.
Kopitar will get 8 more years here, for a lot of money, and the Kings are so so lucky we GET to sign him again. So many teams would love to have him.
OVER a PPG. In a year when the leading scorer might not hit 90 points.
Ya he had a slow start. But since then he has been above his career pace. He's been incredibly durable through his career and absolutely does it all for the team. His teammates consider him a top 3 center in the game no doubt.
Kopitar will get 8 more years here, for a lot of money, and the Kings are so so lucky we GET to sign him again. So many teams would love to have him.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
It's not implied, it's the entire part of my post you quoted but did not bold. I don't want Kopitar getting $72 million over 8 years either, it's simply the best scenario if the only other option is him walking. I've also said that before. try to follow along.
And you don't give it very good at all, you come across as being overly worried about what happens seven years from now than what happens in the short-term with the defending Stanley Cup champions. You have a core that has shown they can win cups, you don't toss away one of the top three pieces of that -and the best forward at that- over concerns over what MIGHT happen seven years from now.
Third rounder but yes, he was a steal.
Choralone
Registered User
All this theoretical talk about Kopi's potential decline and if he's overpaid or underpaid is fine, but it's spreadsheet talk.
If you are a cup contender like the Kings are, you have to find a way to pay the man. We have no one to fill his shoes if he's gone - and if he's gone our chance to win now is gone with him. Replacing wingers is one thing - replacing your 1C is entirely different. If our window were closed and we were looking to retool next year, fine. That's not where we are.
In my opinion, Doughty and Kopitar are untouchable on this team - everyone else is replaceable to some degree. So Kopi has a ton of leverage. But I'm sure he knows he has a great thing going here and I'm doubtful he would try to strong-arm the Kings for an extra 10% or so.
If you are a cup contender like the Kings are, you have to find a way to pay the man. We have no one to fill his shoes if he's gone - and if he's gone our chance to win now is gone with him. Replacing wingers is one thing - replacing your 1C is entirely different. If our window were closed and we were looking to retool next year, fine. That's not where we are.
In my opinion, Doughty and Kopitar are untouchable on this team - everyone else is replaceable to some degree. So Kopi has a ton of leverage. But I'm sure he knows he has a great thing going here and I'm doubtful he would try to strong-arm the Kings for an extra 10% or so.
TopT
Registered User
This
Kopi is the most unselfish person there are.Unfortunately playing hockey thats not always a good thing.
What I miss in his game now is his reluctance to try to lose the defender. I used to love his part of the game when he was facing the boards and skated left and right to get the D off balance. There was always a scoring chance ater that.
Sure as far as I'm hearing he's playing fine 19+ mins and around a point a game.... shame that Sutter couldn't get more out of him.... Team could really use another top 6 forward right now.... but it's fun watching Brown/Lewis struggle on the top line....
As far as Richards being with the team a long time...... yeah guess that cap hit still being with the Kings is what I meant.... going to be hard to get away from that.... but you missed the point there as well.... it's cool...
By the way can you explain to me why Kopitar isn't worth 9M again?
Pero... it would be nice if Lombardi could build a team that makes the playoffs pretty much every year like Detroit... the biggest problem is Sutter's system requires a cup contending team to finish in a wild card spot. So I see that as unlikely...
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,777
Sure as far as I'm hearing he's playing fine 19+ mins and around a point a game.... shame that Sutter couldn't get more out of him.... Team could really use another top 6 forward right now.... but it's fun watching Brown/Lewis struggle on the top line....
As far as Richards being with the team a long time...... yeah guess that cap hit still being with the Kings is what I meant.... going to be hard to get away from that.... but you missed the point there as well.... it's cool...
By the way can you explain to me why Kopitar isn't worth 9M again?
Pero... it would be nice if Lombardi could build a team that makes the playoffs pretty much every year like Detroit... the biggest problem is Sutter's system requires a cup contending team to finish in a wild card spot. So I see that as unlikely...
The bolded part is all most posters should need to know in order to assess the value of your opinion on any subject related to Kings hockey.
Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
- Jul 6, 2011
- 34,135
- 3,783
Sure as far as I'm hearing he's playing fine 19+ mins and around a point a game.... shame that Sutter couldn't get more out of him.... Team could really use another top 6 forward right now.... but it's fun watching Brown/Lewis struggle on the top line....
As far as Richards being with the team a long time...... yeah guess that cap hit still being with the Kings is what I meant.... going to be hard to get away from that.... but you missed the point there as well.... it's cool...
By the way can you explain to me why Kopitar isn't worth 9M again?
Pero... it would be nice if Lombardi could build a team that makes the playoffs pretty much every year like Detroit... the biggest problem is Sutter's system requires a cup contending team to finish in a wild card spot. So I see that as unlikely...
Ollie Weeks
the sea does not dream of you
- Feb 28, 2008
- 13,324
- 2,647
On making the playoffs year after year like Detroit...
Sutter's slow it down system creates the illusion of parity.... The Kings for the last few games have played an uptempo game and beaten some of the best teams in the league..... before that they were playing a slow heavily defensive game that limits chances.... They were losing to teams like the Oilers and Calgary (3 times).... Sutter's system makes the regular season harder for the Kings to get wins.... with a game plan like that if the Kings are a mediocre team they will miss the playoffs.... where as Detroit has found a way for the last 20 years (guess) to make the playoffs with some banged up rosters at times....
OK... Struggling may not be the best term for Brown/Lewis....
Lewis is having a career year.... 7 goals on the year... he just sucks for a former first round pick. Sorry Lewis you try hard...
Brown.... His 10 goals on the year have him tied with Dwight King
and a few behind Pearson.... well Pearson's been out for a while now, and Pearson earlier this year was getting 4th line time despite leading the team in goals scored... Brown has been getting quality ice time and power play time consistently through the year.... If you don't want to say Brown's struggling... maybe offensively inept?
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Huh? We are making playoffs year after year. Everyone has struggled this year plus scoring is down.
I don't think Kopitar is worth 72 mil for 8 years. That's nearing Ovechkin/Crosby money. Toews is just way overpaid (and overrated) so it's not smart to use him as a comparison. I highly doubt that he will sign this year because he's not having the greatest season, but if he turns it up next season I wouldn't be surprised if he were signed for that much actually because there aren't many players like Kopitar out there. That would be a troublesome contract.
I don't think Kopitar is worth 72 mil for 8 years. That's nearing Ovechkin/Crosby money. Toews is just way overpaid (and overrated) so it's not smart to use him as a comparison. I highly doubt that he will sign this year because he's not having the greatest season, but if he turns it up next season I wouldn't be surprised if he were signed for that much actually because there aren't many players like Kopitar out there. That would be a troublesome contract.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
We've made the playoffs five straight years and there's no reason it won't be six this year. That is making it every year. The only reason right now anyone can say LA doesn't have a Detroit-like streak under DL is becuase DL hasn't been around 20+ straight years to do it...
Choralone
Registered User
If we're talking cap hits, Kopi is currently 13th on the list of NHL centers, with such luminaries as Eric Staal, Jason Spezza, David Krejci, and Paul Statsny ahead of him. I figure he's going to land somewhere between 8 and 8.5 mil, which would put him somewhere between 4th and 6th on the list, behind Crosby (8.7)and in the company of Giroux (8.275) and Staal & Getzlaf (8.25).
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Sutter has won 10 playoff series in three seasons as Kings coach, in the decade before he arrived the Kings had won 7 total playoff games. Yeah Sutter is clearly the problem here....
Not surprised though, as K17 mentioned, this is the same guy who said he was excited to have MR's contract on the books for five more seasons.
Not surprised though, as K17 mentioned, this is the same guy who said he was excited to have MR's contract on the books for five more seasons.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 21,513
- 19,004
Revisionist history? The way I'm looking at it, the stats show that a higher percentage of his 5on5 assists are coming from secondary assists than previous seasons.
..........A1/60 : A2/60
14/15.......65 : .74
13/14.......75 : .40
12/13.......91 : .33
11/12.......93 : .59
10/11......1.16 : .63
Clearly the amount of primary assists per 60min of ice time has dropped in each of the last 5 seasons, while his secondary assists have increased in each of the last 3.
But this is beside the point, my analysis of Kopitar's play is mostly qualitative. He rarely generates scoring chances for himself or his teammates. It's unacceptable for a number 1 center, and too many of his points are coincidental.
I don't want to sound like I'm unappreciative of him. I've often defended him and felt like those criticizing him we're looking at the grass as being greener on the other side. I'm just frustrated with him, and the organizations' emphasis on his defensive play. Kopitar's skill set is better geared towards offense. I don't think we're getting the most out of him.
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Winger23
Registered User
- May 3, 2007
- 5,759
- 623
I love kopi but often I consider carter to be the number 1 center on the team.
I guess it doesn't matter who the no 1 is, its damn nice to have both on the team.
I have heard players on the Kings say over and over how good Kopitar is and how they think he is one of the best in the league. I seriously doubt there is a single player in that locker room that views Carter as the #1
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