Value of: William Nylander

[Ziggdiezan]

If the Leafs traded Nylander it would be another Tyler Sequin... there is no way he is traded. Matthews and Nylander look way way too good together to be broken up after a half dozen games.

 

[scan15*]

You've stated explicitly, more than once, that Nylander's production is a result of Matthews and that he's a .5-.6ppg player with JVR and Bozak as linemates where he achieved the top end of that range last year with:1) worse linemates 2)as a teenager in the best league in the world 3) no experience. So yes, that is giving objectively too little credit to him as a stand alone if you're letting him play with better linemates than last year.

Is Nylander a 1.5 ppg player without Matthews? No, he's probably not that even with Matthews over a larger sample (Sidney Crosby isn't that good). But if you're trying to weigh the factors as to what he would be without Matthews, .6ppg is not enough credit

Who is Erberle?

Jordan Eberle is a top line winger without McDavid (career .8ppg without McDavid, 65 pt pace), and yes his stats are inflated with him. So given that Nylander was drafted higher than Eberle, Eberle is good but isn't the peak of what he could have been, how do you justify that Nylander's ceiling is lower than what Eberle turned out to be?
Edit: Eberle's ppg over the last 2 seasons is below his career average, there was a portion of last year that he didn't play with McDavid due to injury, but the inflationary effect I would wager has been minimal

again, too little credit

Also cute that you completely skirted answering whether the other linemate of Matthews, Zach Hyman, has experienced the same number-inflating effect in favour of an example that would support your narrative

Every ignorant and nonsensical post doesn't deserve a response. There is no basis or logic to his argument. Ignore him.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Every ignorant and nonsensical post doesn't deserve a response. There is no basis or logic to his argument. Ignore him.

I know...I saw red.

Coming into the season I had Nylander ranked 3rd on the prospect totem pole, he deserves his credit

 

[TOGuy14]

Nylander is good but his results are a product of playing with Matthews. Put Marner with Matthews and both of them will do much better. Put Nylander with Bozak and JVR and we'll see the truth with Nylander.

I'd trade him for someone like Hanafin in a second.

I guess Nylander was playing with the ghost of Matthews when he put up 11 points in 12 games at the end of the season last year?

Seriously dude, the guy chewed up the SWE league, the WJHC (pre-concussion), the AHL and performed well in the NHL in his limited play time last year.

Why do you think any of this is tied Matthews?

 

[Gavy]

You've stated explicitly, more than once, that Nylander's production is a result of Matthews and that he's a .5-.6ppg player with JVR and Bozak as linemates where he achieved the top end of that range last year with:1) worse linemates 2)as a teenager in the best league in the world 3) no experience. So yes, that is giving objectively too little credit to him as a stand alone if you're letting him play with better linemates than last year.

Is Nylander a 1.5 ppg player without Matthews? No, he's probably not that even with Matthews over a larger sample (Sidney Crosby isn't that good). But if you're trying to weigh the factors as to what he would be without Matthews, .6ppg is not enough credit

Who is Erberle?

Jordan Eberle is a top line winger without McDavid (career .8ppg without McDavid, 65 pt pace), and yes his stats are inflated with him. So given that Nylander was drafted higher than Eberle, and that Eberle is good but isn't the peak of his own potential as a prospect, how do you justify that Nylander's ceiling is lower than what Eberle turned out to be?
Edit: Eberle's ppg over the last 2 seasons is below his career average, there was a portion of last year that he didn't play with McDavid due to injury, but the inflationary effect I would wager has been minimal

again, too little credit

Also cute that you completely skirted answering whether the other linemate of Matthews, Zach Hyman, has experienced the same number-inflating effect in favour of an example that would support your narrative - which as it turns out really didn't support your narrative

Just ignore him. Only took 1 post to show he has no idea what's he's talking about or how hockey works

 

[LeafsNation149]

I'd do Nylander for Hanifin. Probably identical value.

Nylander is so awesome though, but have to give to get

 

[666]

So given that Nylander was drafted higher than Eberle, and that Eberle is good but isn't the peak of his own potential as a prospect, how do you justify that Nylander's ceiling is lower than what Eberle turned out to be?

Because I've watched them both play and Nylander ain't Eberle. Do you really think that draft position determines a players value? Again, stop watching the puck.

 

[666]

I guess Nylander was playing with the ghost of Matthews when he put up 11 points in 12 games at the end of the season last year?

I get it but he put up 13 points in 22 games. Or he went scoreless in 7 of those last 12 games. Don't be a fool.

 

[Mats13]

Nylander is good but his results are a product of playing with Matthews. Put Marner with Matthews and both of them will do much better. Put Nylander with Bozak and JVR and we'll see the truth with Nylander.

I'd trade him for someone like Hanafin in a second.

Good god this is the worst post I've ever seen

Nylander had been the one driving his line all year. Anyone with eyes can see that.

Last year he made Greening look like an NHLer. Did Matthews help him do that too?

What a terrible post, capped off by you spelling Hanifin wrong....

As for OP, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Never going to happen.

The Leafs are NOT trading Nylander. His price tag is untouchable, don't bother.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Because I've watched them both play and Nylander ain't Eberle. Do you really think that draft position determines a players value? Again, stop watching the puck.

I'm not intending to embarrass you with my responses, but you keep digging your heels in on a nonsensical position.

Other way around, perceived value on draft day is precisely what determines draft position, influenced by the needs of the team but most are adhering to a "BPA" strategy first and foremost. Teams create a draft board with extensive scouting and research, then take the top guy remaining when it comes to be their pick.

Nylander hasn't played long enough to have a fair NHL body of work to evaluate him on, but his body of work since draft day in other leagues is historical-level good, and his body of work in the NHL so far - with and without Auston Matthews - has been exemplary.

Nylander is top 10 and often top 5 on every reputable prospect ranking and he's regularly bumped in to the top 5 on mock redrafts - these things would not happen if his absolute ceiling was a fringe 1st line winger.

Stop relying on your super-human ability to analyze hockey with your eye test better than anyone else on a hockey-specific forum, look at the evidence and apply context, and give a little credit to the rest of the posters that probably know a little about the game as well (especially when they unanimously speak out against your position on this argument). Be willing to be moved off your position in light of new information, that's how we improve the strength of our arguments. And if you're just here to take up contrarian positions without being able to support them - isn't that just a waste of your time too?

 

[TOGuy14]

I get it but he put up 13 points in 22 games. Or he went scoreless in 7 of those last 12 games. Don't be a fool.

So the ten games where he didn't score much after returning from a concussion are more indicative than literally everything else he has done so far in his career?

Logic, you have none.

 

[Morbo]

Nylander isn't going to be traded.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

I know...I saw red.

Coming into the season I had Nylander ranked 3rd on the prospect totem pole, he deserves his credit

Man, I don't know where you've been all my time on HF, but I love you. Your version of seeing red is rational debate.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Man, I don't know where you've been all my time on HF, but I love you. Your version of seeing red is rational debate.

not as much fun as the Jerry Springer version of HF though, is it?

 

[Advanced stats]

Not saying the Leafs should or will trade him but if Marner starts scoring goals, could they look to trade Willy for a potential top pairing dman?

For example:

Hanifin for Nylander

What would your team offer?

Don't even start OP.

I wouldn't have traded Nylander this past offseason.
I wouldn't trade him now.
I don't want to trade him in the future.


To the leaf fans willing to trade Nylander for Hanifin...

Wouldn't you rather just draft Lindjren or Foote and keep a teenager who shows elite potential and a high chance of a 70 point player?

Our first round pick is in all likelihood top 5. I honestly wouldn't know who to draft with that pick other than a top pairing defenseman

 

[Mad Brills*]

Difference between trading JVR for a dman which is a good trade, and trading willie for no reason.

Hold onto your young guys, hopefully grab some D men in the draft and/or free agency. Its really not that hard.

Agreed. Wait for shattenkirk this summer.

 

[kihei]

Bad idea. Nylander stays a Leaf.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

not as much fun as the Jerry Springer version of HF though, is it?

I came on HF to try to rapidly learn about hockey, and part of my strategy was trying to advance arguments to see whether I was correct in my understanding of certain things. The Jerry Springer version that often runs wild around here definitely sucked me in and I've caught myself on a number of occasions either exiting a tab because I've typed something as a quick reply that is just total belligerence or disengaged from arguments because I'm being some kind of low-key homer. This place has jaded me.

 

[Canada4Gold]

The answer is no

 

[jacks*]

Because I've watched them both play and Nylander ain't Eberle. Do you really think that draft position determines a players value? Again, stop watching the puck.

Maybe you should start watching the game.
I'm no Leaf fan but Nylander is not only playing great but is going to be one of the top offensive players in the league.He the type of player that makes other players around him better ,not the other way around.
If given the choice i would take Nylander over Ebbs quite easily.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I came on HF to try to rapidly learn about hockey, and part of my strategy was trying to advance arguments to see whether I was correct in my understanding of certain things. The Jerry Springer version that often runs wild around here definitely sucked me in and I've caught myself on a number of occasions either exiting a tab because I've typed something as a quick reply that is just total belligerence or disengaged from arguments because I'm being some kind of low-key homer. This place has jaded me.

Those conversations in trade threads always turn out how the Democrat vs. Republican parties have trended - one side takes an extreme position, the other side counters with a more extreme opposing position, then it turns into a **** fight at the monkey exhibit. It's entertaining sometimes, but doesn't put either side any further ahead in figuring out what they intended to by joining the conversation

I do find that every fan base has posters who will play ball as long as they don't feel like their players/prospects are being undervalued, so when I want to know how a fanbase really feels about a proposal I start off with acknowledging the value of the player I'm asking about - never made much sense to approach it like "hey, that guy is garbage, but I want him on my team so give him to me for nothing"

I know what you mean about getting jaded though, I catch myself abandoning replies sometimes because I just think "why bother"

 

[SFD22]

Threads like this are so pointless. Name one blue chip / top prospect player traded during their rookie season.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Threads like this are so pointless. Name one blue chip / top prospect player traded during their rookie season.

in the last year or so there's been some similar guys traded: Crouse, Teravainen, McCann, DeAngelo - not all actually at the NHL rookie stage but first round picks who were around the same distance from their draft. Nylander I'm sure would be considered the best of this group even before his performance so far, but they're similar

I think the point of this one is to feel out if the feeling around Nylander has changed with leaf fans because he was the one of the big 3 who was most often mentioned on the boards as trade bait coming into the year

 

[LeafsNation149]

in the last year or so there's been some similar guys traded: Crouse, Teravainen, McCann, DeAngelo - not all actually at the NHL rookie stage but first round picks who were around the same distance from their draft. Nylander I'm sure would be considered the best of this group even before his performance so far, but they're similar

I think the point of this one is to feel out if the feeling around Nylander has changed with leaf fans because he was the one of the big 3 who was most often mentioned on the boards as trade bait coming into the year

Nylander is a tier, maybe 2 tiers ahead of all those guys. But I understand what you're trying to say

 

[Randy Randerson]

Nylander is a tier, maybe 2 tiers ahead of all those guys. But I understand what you're trying to say

Ya just that high upside 1st round picks do get dealt within a couple of years of the draft, and I think if there's a place to ask about a player's value for the sake of curiosity that this is it