Value of: William Nylander

[TorontoTrades]

Nylander has impressed at every level and is off to a great start this year. Regardless of how he's playing you don't trade a 20 year old player you took 8th overall when he's played just 28 games.. especially not when he's produced the way he has. Wait and see how good he can be. Matthews, Nylander and Marner will be off limits for at least 2 years IMO.. if at that point it's not working they may look to shake it up but no one's hitting the panic button anytime soon.

 

[TheBigThree]

Nylander is good but his results are a product of playing with Matthews. Put Marner with Matthews and both of them will do much better. Put Nylander with Bozak and JVR and we'll see the truth with Nylander.

I'd trade him for someone like Hanafin in a second.

Is this a joke? Have you watched any leafs games? Almost every goal that matthews has scored has been because of nylander, he is by far our best rookie so far this season. Last year we didn't have matthews and overall a terrible lineup and he still had a PPG. Nylander, matthews and marner will be untouchable for a while.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Nylander's results have been excellent, both on the score sheet and the eye test. The only thing I would consider trading him for is a very young RHD with elite upside - Nylander should be near untouchable, but our system is deeper with prospects of his ilk (style, size, position, acknowledged that his ceiling is higher than anyone who's not on the big club roster) than we are in certain other positions, so I it would be easier to replace Nylander out of the system than it would to find an elite RHD

The list would be short:
Doughty
Hedman
Ekblad
Karlsson
(guys we wouldn't get)

The willingness to trade Nylander is also influenced by three things heavily:
- progress of similar prospects - Kapanen, Timashov, Johnsson, Bracco - the better they look, the more willing I would be to deal
- the expected range of our #1 pick next year - the worse we are in the standings, the more likely we'll be able to get Liljegren, the less willing I would be to deal because we could fill that RHD spot organically
- Progress of Zaitsev - If he continues to impress and improve, maybe we already have our top pair RHD

 

[Incetardis]

As tempting as it might be to immediately improve a depressingly bad Dcor by getting a giant return for Nylander it's way better in the long run to stay the course and develop within. Owning his rights as well as Matthews and Marner for the next half decade is going to lead to a juggernaut of an offense. Use the coming cap space to add some solid veteran D and focus on drafting/developing D and just imagine how scary good this team could be

 

[Diddy]

Nylander is good but his results are a product of playing with Matthews. Put Marner with Matthews and both of them will do much better. Put Nylander with Bozak and JVR and we'll see the truth with Nylander.

I'd trade him for someone like Hanafin in a second.

yikes. Nylanders been our best player this season.

 

[KingTux]

Build with picks. I bet Toronto is only scouting RHD for the next draft

So like, Liljegren.

 

[Uncle Gary]

Anyone else think he is better than Marner?

 

[TheNewEra]

this is a stupid thread, nylander has an ever expanding value for the leafs because 1 he is young and 2 he has played amazing to end last year and this year

no one is going to pay the price that the leafs are going to want because it will be considered insane since he is still a spec and his play could go either way

 

[666]

Nylander played with Hyman and Kapanen and then Michalek and Greening at the tail end of last season and he was over a 50 point pace during that time.

And now he's significantly over a point per game with Matthews. Put him with Bozak and JVR and he's back to .5 ppg, that's what I'm saying.

Marner needs good linemates to become the most dangerous player on the ice. Nylander is the most dangerous player on the ice regardless of linemates.

Then why wasn't Nylander the most dangerous guy on the ice last season?

So I repeat, Nylander is a product of Matthews who is by far the most dangerous guy on the ice.

Soon enough we'll see Nylander taken off of Matthews line and he'll return to being a good .5 or .6 ppg guy.

 

[Randy Randerson]

And now he's significantly over a point per game with Matthews. Put him with Bozak and JVR and he's back to .5 ppg, that's what I'm saying.

He was better than that last year with worse linemates than Bozak and JVR, so this really doesn't stand to reason

Does playing with Matthews help? yes. Having great linemates has not been a make or break for Nylander early in his career though

citing specific examples, Nylander has 2 pp goals from cross-ice feeds from Matthews to the right high slot - without Matthews those pucks don't get there, but if it's Bozak taking those feeds they don't end up in the back of the net so you can make an argument that Nylander has positively affected Matthews points too - we call that "chemistry"

Then why wasn't Nylander the most dangerous guy on the ice last season?

So I repeat, Nylander is a product of Matthews who is by far the most dangerous guy on the ice.

Soon enough we'll see Nylander taken off of Matthews line and he'll return to being a good .5 or .6 ppg guy.

again, this is not supported by the evidence. He was just under .6ppg playing with bottom 6 players last year. So take away Matthews in favour of JVR+Bozak, plus add the improvement of Nylander himself as he gets used to the league, probably more like 0.8-1ppg over the same sample would stand to reason...as a 20 year old

 

[Gavy]

And now he's significantly over a point per game with Matthews. Put him with Bozak and JVR and he's back to .5 ppg, that's what I'm saying.



Then why wasn't Nylander the most dangerous guy on the ice last season?

So I repeat, Nylander is a product of Matthews who is by far the most dangerous guy on the ice.

Soon enough we'll see Nylander taken off of Matthews line and he'll return to being a good .5 or .6 ppg guy.

You have no idea what you're alking about. Nylander absolutely is not product of Matthews.

You also say he would just be the same as last year. Ya, because 19 year old blue chip forwards never get better...

 

[Chan790]

Leafs management didn't seem interested in drafting Hanifin and apparently they were willing to trade down if Marner went 3rd, so I don't see why they would want to acquire him now.

This is probably mutual non-interest. Carolina passed on Nylander to reach and take Haydn Fleury. There were forwards they considered at that pick too, but supposedly Nylander wasn't among them.

 

[Randy Randerson]

This is probably mutual non-interest. Carolina passed on Nylander to reach and take Haydn Fleury. There were forwards they considered at that pick too, but supposedly Nylander wasn't among them.

I think opinions also change with new information, if teams had a crystal ball you would think that Nylander and Ehlers both go higher in that draft and Fleury falls a bit if teams had Today's information

With the Hanifin situation its still tough to tell, he's made a great start in the league but if you were targeting a Dman out of that draft would you take him or Werenski/Provorov. I think the rumours about the leafs trading down were about them moving a few picks back and those guys would still be on the radar

 

[666]

He was better than that last year with worse linemates than Bozak and JVR, so this really doesn't stand to reason

Does playing with Matthews help? yes. Having great linemates has not been a make or break for Nylander early in his career though

citing specific examples, Nylander has 2 pp goals from cross-ice feeds from Matthews to the right high slot - without Matthews those pucks don't get there, but if it's Bozak taking those feeds they don't end up in the back of the net so you can make an argument that Nylander has positively affected Matthews points too - we call that "chemistry"



again, this is not supported by the evidence. He was just under .6ppg playing with bottom 6 players last year. So take away Matthews in favour of JVR+Bozak, plus add the improvement of Nylander himself as he gets used to the league, probably more like 0.8-1ppg over the same sample would stand to reason...as a 20 year old

You have no idea what you're alking about. Nylander absolutely is not product of Matthews.

You also say he would just be the same as last year. Ya, because 19 year old blue chip forwards never get better...

You guys need to stop watching the puck. How many times has Nylander missed a pass or play set up by Matthews. How many times has he missed hitting Matthews with a pass or not even seen the opportunity? Do you not notice the space he gets which is created by Matthews? He's always about a half step behind Matthews. Marner is the only Leaf that will be able to keep up with Matthews and that will be exciting.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Anyone else think he is better than Marner?

I would hope so.. older and played in swedish elite and AHL before making the jump. This is Marner's first time playing non-junior.

 

[Randy Randerson]

You guys need to stop watching the puck. How many times has Nylander missed a pass or play set up by Matthews. How many times has he missed hitting Matthews with pass or not even seen the opportunity? Do you not notice the space he gets which is created by Matthews? He's always about a half step behind Matthews. Marner is the only Leaf that will be able to keep up with Matthews and that will be exciting.

Expecting to complete every play is an unrealistic expectation, and one that has been accomplished by literally no one in history including the greatest players to ever play the game

Trying to sell that Matthews-Nylander duo is all Matthews is crazy talk, and if it were true then Zach Hyman must also be tearing it up right?

You are wrong and needlessly pessimistic on Nylander

I am happy to keep watching the puck as it goes into the net on plays where Matthews and Nylander combine for the goal and primary assist

 

[Chan790]

I think opinions also change with new information, if teams had a crystal ball you would think that Nylander and Ehlers both go higher in that draft and Fleury falls a bit if teams had Today's information

With the Hanifin situation its still tough to tell, he's made a great start in the league but if you were targeting a Dman out of that draft would you take him or Werenski/Provorov. I think the rumours about the leafs trading down were about them moving a few picks back and those guys would still be on the radar

I'd take Hanifin.

Long before the Canes drafted him, I thought he was the best defenseman in that draft and should have been in a tier of one, below Eichel and way ahead of Marner/Strome. I was disappointed because I thought there was no way the Canes were going to get him once they improved out of the top-3.

I did an ecstatic dance when the Leafs took Marner; as good as he is and as good as I think he will be...I think the Leafs blew a lay-up pick and the Canes got the guy I thought was easily the 3rd best player in that draft.

 

[NiL8r87]

Number 3 prospect in the world after Matthews and Laine currently, imo. He's worth a lot.

 

[gabeliscious]

Build with picks. I bet Toronto is only scouting RHD for the next draft

So like, Liljegren.

yes please

 

[WilliamNylander]

No. Not trading him.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I'd take Hanifin.

Long before the Canes drafted him, I thought we was the best defenseman in that draft and should have been in a tier of one, below Eichel and way ahead of Marner/Strome. I was disappointed because I thought there was no way the Canes were going to get him once they improved out of the top-3.

I did an ecstatic dance when the Leafs took Marner; as good as he is and as good as I think he will be...I think the Leafs blew a lay-up pick and the Canes got the guy I thought was easily the 3rd best player in that draft.

Thats fair, I just think there's a case to be made for one of the other two on the same level as Hanifin at this point. They've all had great starts to this year and I think the picture becomes clearer with more time, in the Nylander situation there's an extra year of results to evaluate with. If I could get Werenski plus an asset for trading down rather than Hanifin, I do that with today's info

With Nylander, he's been clearly better than Virtanen & Dal Colle, probably better than the Sams as well. Small sample, but he looks like a star in the making and I think with today's info he gets into the top 5 in a redraft

Marner's results have been pretty good so far as well, and it looks like he can play in the NHL which was a major hurdle for him. Agree that Hanifin's track record looks better than Marner's at the NHL level, but that's a tiny sample so I'd wait on it - we needed more forward fire power at that point and already had Rielly as a top LHD prospect so taking Marner made sense to me. Marner's ceiling was/is also considered to be 3rd best in that draft as well (as much as its hard to compare across positions), he could end up as a perennial top 10 scorer so I think that risk was worth it

 

[Willy Stylez]

You guys need to stop watching the puck. How many times has Nylander missed a pass or play set up by Matthews. How many times has he missed hitting Matthews with a pass or not even seen the opportunity? Do you not notice the space he gets which is created by Matthews? He's always about a half step behind Matthews. Marner is the only Leaf that will be able to keep up with Matthews and that will be exciting.

You Odog?

 

[666]

Expecting to complete every play is an unrealistic expectation, and one that has been accomplished by literally no one in history including the greatest players to ever play the game

Trying to sell that Matthews-Nylander duo is all Matthews is crazy talk, and if it were true then Zach Hyman must also be tearing it up right?

You are wrong and needlessly pessimistic on Nylander

I am happy to keep watching the puck as it goes into the net on plays where Matthews and Nylander combine for the goal and primary assist

I said Nylander is good. I even said .6 ppg good. That's the type of guys he is. Without looking I bet McDavid's wingers are doing better than usual too.

I looked, yep Erberle is at ppg. Why are you surprised?

How's this. Nylander might become almost as good as Erberle. Is that enough?

Try this for one period. When Matthew's line is out don't look at where the puck is but where it should be going. Look for that while being aware of the open spaces. Focus on that and you will see the light.

 

[gretskidoo]

Nylander's ceiling is "almost as good as Eberle"? Sounds like you need to trade him to Detroit.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I said Nylander is good. I even said .6 ppg good. That's the type of guys he is. Without looking I bet McDavid's wingers are doing better than usual too.

I looked, yep Erberle is at ppg. Why are you surprised?

How's this. Nylander might become almost as good as Erberle. Is that enough?

Try this for one period. When Matthew's line is out don't look at where the puck is but where it should be going. Look for that while being aware of the open spaces. Focus on that and you will see the light.

You've stated explicitly, more than once, that Nylander's production is a result of Matthews and that he's a .5-.6ppg player with JVR and Bozak as linemates where he achieved the top end of that range last year with:1) worse linemates 2)as a teenager in the best league in the world 3) no experience. So yes, that is giving objectively too little credit to him as a stand alone if you're letting him play with better linemates than last year.

Is Nylander a 1.5 ppg player without Matthews? No, he's probably not that even with Matthews over a larger sample (Sidney Crosby isn't that good). But if you're trying to weigh the factors as to what he would be without Matthews, .6ppg is not enough credit

Who is Erberle?

Jordan Eberle is a top line winger without McDavid (career .8ppg without McDavid, 65 pt pace), and yes his stats are inflated with him. So given that Nylander was drafted higher than Eberle, and that Eberle is good but isn't the peak of his own potential as a prospect, how do you justify that Nylander's ceiling is lower than what Eberle turned out to be?
Edit: Eberle's ppg over the last 2 seasons is below his career average, there was a portion of last year that he didn't play with McDavid due to injury, but the inflationary effect I would wager has been minimal

again, too little credit

Also cute that you completely skirted answering whether the other linemate of Matthews, Zach Hyman, has experienced the same number-inflating effect in favour of an example that would support your narrative - which as it turns out really didn't support your narrative