Will Ovi breaking Gretzky's goalscoring record change or influence his legacy?

[Slapshot Sultan]

But yet the dude that scored 1 more point than the other guy provided more to his team…..

And teams are much more concerned about the other teams best playmakers than their top goal scorer. But that’s besides the point.

Yes, if you actually believe the NHL's points system is the all knowing truth about actual contribution for a goal (1pt for goal/1 assist/2 assist each and and 0 points for 3rd assists etc.)

the 2nd assist cut off is only arbitrary and the fact that goal & 2nd assist are considered equal scoring is laughable.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

yeah its that all round game that Ov never had. going to be fun listening to all the OV fans that all sudden think he's better than Crosby just because of scoring goals.
how long till Ovechkin developed his 2way game? over 10 years? how many times has Crosby and the Penquins eliminated Ovechkin and the Caps?

Crosby has 1409 points in 1108 games
Ovechkin has 1410 points in 1274 games

took Ovechkin 166 more games to catch up and take the lead by one point

it's pretty obvious that Crosby is ahead of Ovechkin


or 50goals in 39 games
hell even 92goals in one season is boarderline impossible to beat


sorry but how can you be the greatest of a generation but worse than another player in that generation? literally makes no sense
Ovechkin is incredible and its not disrespectful to him at all saying he was 2nd best of his generation

Because Ovechkin will be the best ever to do something, Crosby? Not so much

Ovechkin will literally have 900 goals something Crosby won't even sniff...hell he might not even get 600.

Just nothing stands out for Crosby he does alot of things excellent but never the best at any of them.

Plus McDavid is looking likely to surpass him anyway

 

[ManofSteel55]

Scoring rate was much higher in 1980's than in 2000's & 2010's. Defense & Goalkeeping was much worse too.

Thanks captain obvious, scoring was higher. But that doesn't mean we can write off Gretzky's accomplishments as being "padded stats" either. Just look at how much more he was scoring than anyone else. Including other Hall of Famers and some of the best goal scorers ever.

 

[Voight]

Hes already arguably the best or co-best player of his era. Adding the all time goal title would have him in the record books for a very significant stat.

 

[Voight]

No, but I am kind of excited to see the lead up to it where Gretz is attending his games in anticipation of him breaking the record, just like Gordie was for him. Will be a cool passing of the torch.

& Gretz will be close to the same age Howe was when he broke the record (early/mid 60s).

 

[zappa4ever]

OV's legacy already = All-Time Scoring Legend

Personally, I'm looking forward to goals 799/800/801/802 THIS season

Assuming he's scoring anywhere near his normal .6g/gm pace, (GM40 is right around NYE), we're gonna see that around Xmas time

No idea if he's going to hit 894+, but that big round number of 800, and then passing Howe, is going to be a great time to be an NHL fan, it's coming in just a couple months, and to argue Ovechkin isn't the greatest goal scorer ever gets tougher and tougher

115 goals is a long way away, but the next 20 are right around the corner

 

[Midnight Judges]

Sure but outside a handful of years Ovechkin has mostly stood in a spot...

I mean yeah, that's just plain false.

Your post is blatant history revision.

Just curious what you think: How could a player accumulate the fourth most hits in the NHL over the past 17 seasons by mostly standing in one spot? Are players just constantly running into him while carrying the puck?!?

NHL Stats

 

[Midnight Judges]

Are you saying that teams never focussed on shutting down Crosby except in 2009? Am I getting this right?

Not to the extent that they've focused on Ovechkin. There is no coach or team that is going to say "It's only Evgeny Malkin, let's pull our top defense pairing for this defensive zone face-off." This frees up favorable match-ups for Crosby and vice versa.

The same has never been true for Ovechkin. The best 2nd line the Capitals ever had was Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie, and they were nowhere near the threat that Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson were.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I think he gets to 1000. Hes probably got 5 years of being a PP1 machine and still good all around.

He's got a couple more after that of playing the 4th line and PP.

 

[Midnight Judges]

No way he was a better goalscorer than Gretzky if you compare them at their best...

Yet more history revision.

NHL & WHA Single Season Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Brett Hull (78), 2. Alex Ovechkin (72), 3. Mario Lemieux (71), 4. Cooney Weiland (70), Phil Esposito (70), 6. Wayne Gretzky (69), 7. Babe Dye (68), Wayne Gretzky (68), Steven Stamkos (68), Auston Matthews (68)

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Midnight Judges]

Talking about revisionism, Crosby finished top-10 in Selke voting 4 times in his career. 3 of those 4 seasons he was 2nd, 3rd and 5th in points. The last season he was top-5 was 2018-19. He finished 4th for the Selke. So yes, his defensive game certainly got recognized while he was still an elite point producer.

By the way it's not uncommon for elite centers to start changing their game as they get older and lost a little explosiveness and speed. Crosby rounded his. As did Sakic before him. And Yzerman before Sakic. And Francis before Yzerman... Was it just a myth too or it is only convenient when talking about Crosby?

Since McDavid's second season, Crosby is no longer in contention for the Art Ross. That coincides perfectly with Crosby's alleged (and false) increase in defensive contributions.

Crosby's deployment has not been changed to play more defense. Quite the opposite. In reality, he's generally taken fewer defensive zone draws and done less penalty killing as his career goes on (not that he ever PK'd in the playoffs). He remains a 'last guy back' and 'first guy out of the d zone' type of player, and always has been.

The next player that Sidney Crosby shuts down will be his first. It simply isn't his role, nor should it be. But here you are pretending it.

Any Selke vote for Crosby was not equitable to the players who actually take on the tough defensive assignments - the players who do the hard work penalty killing and taking more defensive zone starts than offensive zone starts, etc. Being Canada's chosen one has its benefits. Unearned Selke votes are apparently one of them.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Because Ovechkin will be the best ever to do something, Crosby? Not so much

Ovechkin will literally have 900 goals something Crosby won't even sniff...hell he might not even get 600.

Just nothing stands out for Crosby he does alot of things excellent but never the best at any of them.

Plus McDavid is looking likely to surpass him anyway

its fine if you think that I just see him even over stepping Crosby even if he gets the goal record. now if OV takes his team to another Cup that could change but everyone knows Crosby has always been the better overall player

 

[CokenoPepsi]

its fine if you think that I just see him even over stepping Crosby even if he gets the goal record. now if OV takes his team to another Cup that could change but everyone knows Crosby has always been the better overall player

Well that not true, sure overall Crosby is better (but Ovechkin has greater status).

But there were a time where Ovechkin won back to back Hart trophies and Crosby wasn't even the best center on his own team

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Yes best goal scorer of all time, top 5 GOAT.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Yes, if you actually believe the NHL's points system is the all knowing truth about actual contribution for a goal (1pt for goal/1 assist/2 assist each and and 0 points for 3rd assists etc.)

the 2nd assist cut off is only arbitrary and the fact that goal & 2nd assist are considered equal scoring is laughable.

You are missing the point. It doesn’t matter if only two people get a point or the entire team does. If I have the dude on my team with more points, than the other team, my team is in a better position.

 

[Calderon]

Two points I want to make. If Ovi breaks the record no, Gretzky won't fall of the pedestal all of a sudden. He'll still be greatest ever in most people's minds. It's just that Wayne has held virtually every possible scoring record worth anything way over two decades (basically off the top of my head only record that's missing is most goals in single playoffs (19, Leach/Kurri)), but considering how impossibly unattainable the all time goal record was thought to be, I can't help thinking losing it would "mortalise" Gretzky just a little.

As for people regarding or ranking Ovi differently if he has, say 885 goals or 895 goals, isn't pretty much the exact binary standard held for Marleau's eventual HHOF induction as well? I'm not saying he'll be voted in for sure (personally I think he shouldn't), but what else does he have for a claim for a spot than the all time RS game total record? 13 fewer games and he drops to second all time and no more stands out. As for what does this principle mean for Ovi's eventual all time rank and legacy remains to be seen, but it certainly isn't insignificant and scoring goals is quite a lot harder than just making the roster.

 

[wetcoast]

I hope he never breaks the record, honestly at this point he should be playing in the KHL. Having said that, he is the greatest goalscorer whether he breaks the record or not.

While this might be a little extreme, Ovi is also an extremely sheltered player that simply doesn't produce overall given his unique situational playing time and things could get ugly in Washington at some point.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Expect many more games like this on the road to 895

 

[Neil Racki]

While this might be a little extreme, Ovi is also an extremely sheltered player that simply doesn't produce overall given his unique situational playing time and things could get ugly in Washington at some point.

Ovie is old and slowing down .. but lets not take what he looks like now and paint that as his whole career.

Dudes entering his 17th season.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Hockey is not baseball, numbers are not AS important and Gretzky's record is not something people really talked about before Ovechkin had a shot at beating it.

I mean, hardcore hockey fans know it, but it is not as magical as 714 in baseball was.

That being said, it will absolutely boost his legacy if he gets it. It is a VERY VERY VERY VERY important accomplishment and it will be heavily marketed.

Does it impact his really all-time value? Probably not, but it sure will impact the perception (as it should).

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Ovie is old and slowing down .. but lets not take what he looks like now and paint that as his whole career.

Dudes entering his 17th season.

While that's true, he has been playing that way for close to a decade.

It is a smart strategy by the Caps, btw. Maximizing your best asset is not stupid. Having him do what he does best and insulate him from what he does a little worse is smart management. Built on people's strength, especially when one person is REALLY REALLY REALLY great at that one thing.

Let's not forget that hockey is a team game and that player production is highly impacted by their own team strategy. Ovechkin has less assist/total points, because he is used as the trigger man.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Hockey is not baseball, numbers are not AS important and Gretzky's record is not something people really talked about before Ovechkin had a shot at beating it.

I mean, hardcore hockey fans know it, but it is not as magical as 714 in baseball was.

That being said, it will absolutely boost his legacy if he gets it. It is a VERY VERY VERY VERY important accomplishment and it will be heavily marketed.

Does it impact his really all-time value? Probably not, but it sure will impact the perception (as it should).

Gretzky’s records weren’t usually discussed in hockey circles because they were thought to be unbreakable, including 894.

No one is even close to that number, not even legends like Jagr or Howe who played in the NHL for over 25 years and aged as well as they possibly could.

As great as Ovi was at his peak, his legacy as a player really took off in the past 10 years after the 2012 season. All the experts in the media were telling us that Ovi was finished.

Since then, he has achieved the following:
- 1x Hart
- 7x Rocket
- 1x Stanley Cup
- 1x Conn Smythe
- Climbed to 3rd place all time, pretty much guaranteed to retire 1st or 2nd at worst.

That’s a 1st ballot HHOF resume from age 27-37, far removed from his peak.

 

[apparentlyclueless]

As great as Ovi was at his peak, his legacy as a player really took off in the past 10 years after the 2012 season. All the experts in the media were telling us that Ovi was finished.

Since then, he has achieved the following:
- 1x Hart
- 7x Rocket
- 1x Stanley Cup
- 1x Conn Smythe
- Climbed to 3rd place all time, pretty much guaranteed to retire 1st or 2nd at worst.

That’s a 1st ballot HHOF resume from age 27-37, far removed from his peak.

I looked up some other all-time greats' careers after turning 27 to compare - in their case it's pretty arbitrary cutoff but just for fun.

Wayne:

- 1x Hart
- 3x Art Ross
- 3x Lady Byng

Additionally you can add one Stanley Cup and one Conn Smythe if you count the season during which he turned 27 (born in January).

Mario:

- 2x Hart
- 2x Ted Lindsay
- 3x Art Ross
- 1x (retro) Rocket

Howe:

- 4x Hart
- 2x Art Ross
- 2x (retro) Rocket

Add one Stanley Cup if you count the season during which he turned 27 (born in March). Note that Conn Smythe wasn't awarded until 1964-1965 season.

Crosby:

- 2x Stanley Cup
- 2x Conn Smythe
- 1x Rocket

Hull Sr.:

- 3x (retro) Rocket

One more Rocket, one Art Ross and one Hart if you count the season he turned 27 (born in January).

Richard:

- 6x Stanley Cup
- 3x (retro) Rocket

Beliveau:

- 7x Stanley Cup
- 1x Conn Smythe (first one ever awarded in 1965)
- 1x Hart

Lafleur:

1x Stanley Cup

Jagr:

- 2x Ted Lindsay
- 2x Art Ross
- 1x Bill Masterton

Add one Ross and one Hart if you count the season during which he turned 27 (born in February).

And after good ol' Jaromir I got tired. In the end this is pretty pointless comparison but I had fun compiling these. No surprise Howe probably had the best career after our cutoff. What this shows is that the greatest of the all-time greats continue to produce after their peaks. When it comes to goal-scoring Ovechkin really is in a league of his own.

 

[EdJovanovski]

How are people still saying it's so unlikely he breaks it? He only needs to score an average of 28.75 goals per season for the rest of his current contract to break it lol

 

[Trade]

Did Emmitt Smith breaking the career rushing yard record in ‘02 make him the best running back of all time?