Will Ovi breaking Gretzky's goalscoring record change or influence his legacy?

[The Panther]

Would it change Ovechkin's legacy in terms of non-hockey fans / casual sports' fans? Yes.

Would it change Ovechkin's legacy in terms of actual hockey fans? No.

It's a bit like asking: Would Dave Andreychuk's legacy be greater if he had scored 53 more goals was today top-10 all time (ahead of Mario Lemieux) instead of top-20? If would sound more impressive to random people he golfs with on Sundays, yes, but it wouldn't affect anyone's legacy in hockey.

 

[Randyne]

It's a bit like asking: Would Dave Andreychuk's legacy be greater if he had scored 53 more goals was today top-10 all time (ahead of Mario Lemieux) instead of top-20? If would sound more impressive to random people he golfs with on Sundays, yes, but it wouldn't affect anyone's legacy in hockey.

Your analogy is full of hate.
Andreychuk's trophy case 0
Ovechkin's trophy case 18

Breaking the record will force to acknowledge even haters like you that Ovechkin has 18 awards and one of the biggest record in hockey history which mean he is at least top 5 player all-time or higher.

 

[mrv52]

Holy hell. Why don’t we move those goal posts a little farther back, Batman?

My point holds true, the person with the most points has done more for his team than one with less points.

You have several posts in this thread and every one of them give the impression that you are posting in the wrong thread.

 

[Randyne]

Holy hell. Why don’t we move those goal posts a little farther back, Batman?

My point holds true, the person with the most points has done more for his team than one with less points.

Lets say those two (with 1000g and 1001p) were playing 10 seasons and each had 100 P which would be enough for Art Ross every year. The one with 100g would have 10 Harts, 10 TL, 10 Rockets and 9 Art Rosses. The one with 100 P would have 1 Art Ross. Also the one with 1000 G would draw much more attention by defencemen and his teammates would gain more space and score much more goals because of that.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Hopefully he does not break any records

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Lets say those two (with 1000g and 1001p) were playing 10 seasons and each had 100 P which would be enough for Art Ross every year. The one with 100g would have 10 Harts, 10 TL, 10 Rockets and 9 Art Rosses. The one with 100 P would have 1 Art Ross. Also the one with 1000 G would draw much more attention by defencemen and his teammates would gain more space and score much more goals because of that.

But yet the dude that scored 1 more point than the other guy provided more to his team…..

And teams are much more concerned about the other teams best playmakers than their top goal scorer. But that’s besides the point.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

You have several posts in this thread and every one of them give the impression that you are posting in the wrong thread.

And yet they are all speaking to the point of what I am quoting from others. If you can’t follow the conversation that is being had, I would suggest to just not read what I am saying and move on.

 

[Midnight Judges]

even if he breaks Gretzky's goal record he will still never get above Crosby. Crosby will always be known as the better overall player. the guy you would take 9 times out of 10 throughout their career. how they compare going into these final seasons of their career holds little meaning. Crosby will always be better sorry OV fans

That's alright, there have always been lots of people from Canada and Pittsburgh who just couldn't bring themselves to face Ovechkin being the better player under any circumstances. Even when Ovie won the Pearson/Lindsay three years in a row, many simply could not bear the thought.

 

[Midnight Judges]

But yet the dude that scored 1 more point than the other guy provided more to his team…..

And teams are much more concerned about the other teams best playmakers than their top goal scorer. But that’s besides the point.

Ovechkin has always been the Capitals #1 threat. No other player is remotely close.

Ovechkin and his line has always been the focal point of opposing defenses - unlike Crosby who splits match-ups with Malkin. It's funny, the one time that Crosby had another team focus on shutting him down - as the Red Wings allegedly did in 2009 - you guys talk about it endlessly. Ovechkin has had that focus in every game he's ever played. There's never been a second line on the Capitals that was remotely as threatening as Ovechkin's.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

That's alright, there have always been lots of people from Canada and Pittsburgh who just couldn't bring themselves to face Ovechkin being the better player under any circumstances. Even when Ovie won the Pearson/Lindsay three years in a row, many simply could not bear the thought.

difference is Crosby has always been the more complete player that everyone would pick before Ovechkin something Ovechkin fans could never accept

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

You know it's an Ovechkin thread when you have numerous posters make weird philosophical arguments about goals/points and create weird scenarios that don't exist to prove how their philosophical argument is correct

 

[Midnight Judges]

difference is Crosby has always been the more complete player that everyone would pick before Ovechkin something Ovechkin fans could never accept

Ah yes, the mythical defense that Crosby coincidentally started getting credit for precisely when he was no longer contending for the Art Ross. I see we're extending that particular history revision backwards now.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

What a silly question...of course it enhances his legacy.

I'll also say he probably retires as the greatest of his generation even if Crosby was "better"

 

[psycat]

Ovechkin has always been the Capitals #1 threat. No other player is remotely close.

Ovechkin and his line has always been the focal point of opposing defenses - unlike Crosby who splits match-ups with Malkin. It's funny, the one time that Crosby had another team focus on shutting him down - as the Red Wings allegedly did in 2009 - you guys talk about it endlessly. Ovechkin has had that focus in every game he's ever played. There's never been a second line on the Capitals that was remotely as threatening as Ovechkin's.

Sure but outside a handful of years Ovechkin has mostly stood in a spot and pumped shots endlessly on the goalie, Bäckström has been the driver more often than not. I say this as someone who rank Ovechkin above Crosby all time but it's certainly mostly based on peak and durability.

Thing is Ovechkin is almost unique in his durability and concistency when it comes to scoring goals but as a complete package he "only" really held up for a handful of years.

No way he was a better goalscorer than Gretzky if you compare them at their best which is why I have a hard time ranking him above but his durability is just otherworldly so I could get on board with him being a greater goalscorer if he breaks the record. And that's not a small thing.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Holding a scoring record will always improve ones legacy over not holding a scoring record. Don't know why someone needs to ask a question for something that is so obvious.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Gretzky's legacy on the other hand will take a hit too, as he will seem much more human after his record is broken.

Gretzky will still have what, 60 NHL records to his name? I think his legacy will be just fine.

Call me when someone breaks his points record.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Ah yes, the mythical defense that Crosby coincidentally started getting credit for precisely when he was no longer contending for the Art Ross. I see we're extending that particular history revision backwards now.

yeah its that all round game that Ov never had. going to be fun listening to all the OV fans that all sudden think he's better than Crosby just because of scoring goals.
how long till Ovechkin developed his 2way game? over 10 years? how many times has Crosby and the Penquins eliminated Ovechkin and the Caps?

Crosby has 1409 points in 1108 games
Ovechkin has 1410 points in 1274 games

took Ovechkin 166 more games to catch up and take the lead by one point

it's pretty obvious that Crosby is ahead of Ovechkin

Gretzky will still have what, 60 NHL records to his name? I think his legacy will be just fine.

Call me when someone breaks his points record.

or 50goals in 39 games
hell even 92goals in one season is boarderline impossible to beat

What a silly question...of course it enhances his legacy.

I'll also say he probably retires as the greatest of his generation even if Crosby was "better"

sorry but how can you be the greatest of a generation but worse than another player in that generation? literally makes no sense
Ovechkin is incredible and its not disrespectful to him at all saying he was 2nd best of his generation

 

[filinski77]

I never thought of it like that and I think it kinda gets lost...I mean, look at the stats and Gretz is STILL 114 goals ahead?? If things stay linear (they don't), he will have needed to take 1859 more shots than Gretzky merely to tie him.

Flip things around and keeping all things equal (we don't deal in hyperbole at HF do we ), in the shots it "would" take OV to get to 894 (6947) , Gretzky "could" have scored 1220.


View attachment 592515

If you consider statistical analysis imagination.

Why so sore?

Seems a bit hard to consider this "statistical analysis" when you completely ignore any context at all. Gretzky played in an era where goalies save %'s were 30-35% worse than in Ovechkin's era. Do some simple adjustment (which is miles better than no adjustment), and their save %'s are almost identical (14.6% for Ovi v. 14.9% for Gretzky).

 

[Neil Racki]

On HF, I dont always talk about Crosby, but when I do, I do it in an Ovie thread.

Playoff form already boys!

 

[Weztex]

Your analogy is full of hate.
Andreychuk's trophy case 0
Ovechkin's trophy case 18

Breaking the record will force to acknowledge even haters like you that Ovechkin has 18 awards and one of the biggest record in hockey history which mean he is at least top 5 player all-time or higher.

Holy overreaction! If disagreeing with one's point while bringing counter-arguments is hating, we better close that discussion forum.

He didn't claim that Andreychuk and Ovechkin were equals. He said that no hockey fans would mistake Andreychuk for a better player/greater than Lemieux had he got one more goal. The same can be said about Ovechkin versus a number of players.

There's plenty of guys that could be considered at #5 all time. If people want to make an argument for Ovechkin it's all good. But to say he automatically gets there because he scores a goal 20 years into his career is beyond ridiculous and has nothing to do with his actual talent.

Ovechkin has always been the Capitals #1 threat. No other player is remotely close.

Ovechkin and his line has always been the focal point of opposing defenses - unlike Crosby who splits match-ups with Malkin. It's funny, the one time that Crosby had another team focus on shutting him down - as the Red Wings allegedly did in 2009 - you guys talk about it endlessly. Ovechkin has had that focus in every game he's ever played. There's never been a second line on the Capitals that was remotely as threatening as Ovechkin's.

Are you saying that teams never focussed on shutting down Crosby except in 2009? Am I getting this right?

Ah yes, the mythical defense that Crosby coincidentally started getting credit for precisely when he was no longer contending for the Art Ross. I see we're extending that particular history revision backwards now.

Talking about revisionism, Crosby finished top-10 in Selke voting 4 times in his career. 3 of those 4 seasons he was 2nd, 3rd and 5th in points. The last season he was top-5 was 2018-19. He finished 4th for the Selke. So yes, his defensive game certainly got recognized while he was still an elite point producer.

By the way it's not uncommon for elite centers to start changing their game as they get older and lost a little explosiveness and speed. Crosby rounded his. As did Sakic before him. And Yzerman before Sakic. And Francis before Yzerman... Was it just a myth too or it is only convenient when talking about Crosby?

 

[Weztex]

On HF, I dont always talk about Crosby, but when I do, I do it in an Ovie thread.

Playoff form already boys!

It's usually the same 3 or 4 Ovi fanboys that bring up Crosby. It only took 3 posts :

It will greatly improve ovechkin's legacy if he breaks the record and ends his career with 900+ goals. ovechkin is automatically a top 5 player all time and there's no chance of anybody trying to argue crosby over Ovechkin after that!

Gretzky's legacy on the other hand will take a hit too, as he will seem much more human after his record is broken.

 

[User9992]

Sure but outside a handful of years Ovechkin has mostly stood in a spot and pumped shots endlessly on the goalie, Bäckström has been the driver more often than not. I say this as someone who rank Ovechkin above Crosby all time but it's certainly mostly based on peak and durability.

Thing is Ovechkin is almost unique in his durability and concistency when it comes to scoring goals but as a complete package he "only" really held up for a handful of years.

No way he was a better goalscorer than Gretzky if you compare them at their best which is why I have a hard time ranking him above but his durability is just otherworldly so I could get on board with him being a greater goalscorer if he breaks the record. And that's not a small thing.

Ovi is definitely better goal scorer than Gretzky. Gretzky padded his stats in high scoring 80's with non-existent defense & goalkeeping. Then his goal numbers went down drastically (90 > 30/40) in late 80's & early 90's.

Lemieux was way better goal scorer than Gretzky too.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Breaking Gretzky's record means that there are absolutely no valid arguments for anyone other than Ovi to be considered the best goal scorer in hockey history. There shouldn't be much arguing anyway, but until the record is broken, there will always be the "but Gretzky" crowd, which includes me most of the time, but not in the goal scoring debate.

Ovi is definitely better goal scorer than Gretzky. Gretzky padded his stats in high scoring 80's with non-existant defense & goalkeeping. Then his goal numbers went down drastically (90 > 30/40) in late 80's & early 90's.

Lemieux was way better goal scorer than Gretzky.

If goaltending and defense were so non-existent, there would have been other guys playing at the same time that were close to Gretzky. There wasn't. The "Gretzky padded his stats" arguments completely craps on the other greats of the 80s and diminishes what they did.

 

[User9992]

If goaltending and defense were so non-existent, there would have been other guys playing at the same time that were close to Gretzky. There wasn't. The "Gretzky padded his stats" arguments completely craps on the other greats of the 80s and diminishes what they did.

Scoring rate was much higher in 1980's than in 2000's & 2010's. Defense & Goalkeeping was much worse too.

 

[North Cole]

No, but I am kind of excited to see the lead up to it where Gretz is attending his games in anticipation of him breaking the record, just like Gordie was for him. Will be a cool passing of the torch.