Will Ovechkin hit 20 goals this season?

[Dessloch]

Classy of the Caps coach to give Oshie a chance for the hattrick over the record hunt! Should be said Ovi was out there at a shift at 3 minutes where Blues could have pulled the goaltender early, so it could have went either way in that sense! With Ovy returning from injury they probably would not want him to play for 4 minutes straight at the end!

 

[wetcoast]

Ovechkin adjusted, Ovechkin is higher.

I wouldn't quit your day job.

Holds true even if for some incomprehensible reason that you are actually serious.

 

[Hank Plank]

I wouldn't quit your day job.

At least I have a job.

 

[wetcoast]

At least I have a job.

Man the insight is astounding here.

 

[wetcoast]

If he doesn’t get 20 I will eat my house piece by piece on live stream

I'm wondering about this.....

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I'm wondering about this.....

No u aren’t stop it

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Pure domination:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

lol, Using your same parameters, Sid had nearly double the PO points and a Cup.

I'll take prime Sid over OV all day any day, as would everyone who isn't a Caps homer.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

No, that's not similar to Semin. Nobody is debating if Alex Semin is a Hall of famer.

Will Kris Letang make the HOF?

I've never really seen much discussion about his career and all time standing. Do you think he will make the Hall of Fame when it's all said and done?

forums.hfboards.com

You should quote whomever said that. You know, instead of blatantly making things up.

It's you MJ, it's always been you. lol.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

crosby will be remembered as better lol, he is already known that way

i don't really have any agenda to troll about ovechkin, i wish he was playing better and hope he breaks the record, as i said before. i'm just reminding the people that are grasping at straws in these threads every month on the dot

You can just tell which fanbase is on the losing side by who's trying to keep the fight alive. Pens fans haven't cared about Sid v OV since like 2017. Even after OV finally won Si had already cemented himself as the better of the two.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

You can just tell which fanbase is on the losing side by who's trying to keep the fight alive. Pens fans haven't cared about Sid v OV since like 2017. Even after OV finally won Si had already cemented himself as the better of the two.

Plenty of Penguin fans stirring the pot in here on a daily basis.

If your thesis were true, this thread would be four pages long.

 

[Strangle]

No they are 100% correct anything else is mental gymnastics. Like what you just posted.

If people think that he needs to goal record to be seriously considered the best goal scorer of all time then they are mistaken.

Of course they are 100% correct.

There is not a single metric someone can point to if Ovechkin doesn’t break the record to say he is the greatest goal scorer of all time.

How do you put the guy who scored 92 goals in a season, scored 50 in 39 games and leads the record books with most goals scored, ever in second place?

Numbers are real, especially when you adjust them for era. Take a look and rethink your statement.

No, those numbers are actually not real

They’re literally made up lol

What is actually wrong with people?!

 

[Midnight Judges]

It's you MJ, it's always been you. lol.

If that were true, you could quote me. Feel free to do it.

I'll take prime Sid over OV all day any day, as would everyone who isn't a Caps homer.

Peak Ovechkin is objectively superior and the stats show it.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

 

[Strangle]

What era do the era-adjustment crowd use as a baseline? Is the number 3.0 and whenever the league scores more than that, we reduce all the players goals to be a fraction less than a full goal? And if it’s less than 3.0 we all give all the goal scorers a fraction over 1 full goal? And do this every year until we normalize the entire league to 3.0?

So Auston Matthews goals this year are something like 22.36 goals this year?

It always seems like the era adjusting crowd is happy to just pick and choose single years at their whim and start comparing them. There really needs to be a ‘baseline’ year in order to compare all years at the same time.

If you’re just comparing random single years, how is that at all useful?

Its just all such an incredibly stupid thing to do

 

[Midnight Judges]

Of course they are 100% correct.

There is not a single metric someone can point to if Ovechkin doesn’t break the record to say he is the greatest goal scorer of all time.

To the contrary, there are many:

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Alex Ovechkin (991), 2. Gordie Howe (925), 3. Jaromír Jágr (841), 4. Wayne Gretzky (758), 5. Teemu Selänne (741), 6. Brett Hull (738), 7. Jarome Iginla (706), 8. Sidney Crosby (680), 9. Brendan Shanahan (672), 10. Phil Esposito (671)

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Strangle]

To the contrary, there are many:

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Alex Ovechkin (991), 2. Gordie Howe (925), 3. Jaromír Jágr (841), 4. Wayne Gretzky (758), 5. Teemu Selänne (741), 6. Brett Hull (738), 7. Jarome Iginla (706), 8. Sidney Crosby (680), 9. Brendan Shanahan (672), 10. Phil Esposito (671)

www.hockey-reference.com

View attachment 806180

These goals Ovechkin apparently scored here didn’t happen.

They’re fantasy

Show me all 900+ goals Ovechkin scored. I’ll wait

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I'm not going to wade into this beyond this level because I'm tired of it and it doesn't seem to change anyone's mind anyhow.

The reason adjusting for era is important is because the objective of hockey is not to score goals. The objective of hockey is to win games. And yes, one key way to accomplish this is to score goals.

However, in some eras it takes more goals to "buy" one win than it does in other eras. And it's important to recognize that.

Is it often done poorly? Yes. Much of the History forum's best efforts have been debates over various ways to do this in the least-poor fashion.

But it's important to recognize that individual goals weren't worth as much in 1982 as they were in 1999.

I'm also not sure why it matters in a thread titled "Will Ovechkin hit 20 goals this season?".

 

[Midnight Judges]

What era do the era-adjustment crowd use as a baseline? Is the number 3.0 and whenever the league scores more than that, we reduce all the players goals to be a fraction less than a full goal? And if it’s less than 3.0 we all give all the goal scorers a fraction over 1 full goal? And do this every year until we normalize the entire league to 3.0?

So Auston Matthews goals this year are something like 22.36 goals this year?

It always seems like the era adjusting crowd is happy to just pick and choose single years at their whim and start comparing them. There really needs to be a ‘baseline’ year in order to compare all years at the same time.

If you’re just comparing random single years, how is that at all useful?

Its just all such an incredibly stupid thing to do

Matthews has 37 goals this season. It would likely adjust to about 35 or 36.

Equalizing to 3.0 GPG per team does have the same effect as establishing a baseline season, which happens to be roughly the NHL average over time (3 GPG per team).

 

[The Grim Reaper]

TSN: Ovechkin’s goal-scoring record chase slows to a concerning crawl

Travis Yost: Alex Ovechkin’s goal-scoring record chase slows to a concerning crawl | TSN

Alexander Ovechkin is no longer defying the aging curve, which forces us to rethink the 38-year-old Russian sniper’s chase of the NHL’s all-time goal-scoring record, currently held by the venerable Wayne Gretzky. Travis Yost has more.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Midnight Judges]

These goals Ovechkin apparently scored here didn’t happen.

They’re fantasy

Show me all 900+ goals Ovechkin scored. I’ll wait

If you don't like adjusted stats, there still remains many other stats that point to Ovechkin as the greatest goal scorer - such as the number of times he led the NHL (9), and the raw goal total differences between him and his peer group, and the number of 50 goal seasons, and the number of 50 goal seasons vs their peer group while they were in the NHL.

Edit: Of course, you responded to my post quicker than you could have possibly examined even a fraction of the data I provided. Maybe you are simply closed off to the idea?

 

[Strangle]

I'm not going to wade into this beyond this level because I'm tired of it and it doesn't seem to change anyone's mind anyhow.

The reason adjusting for era is important is because the objective of hockey is not to score goals. The objective of hockey is to win games. And yes, one key way to accomplish this is to score goals.

However, in some eras it takes more goals to "buy" one win than it does in other eras. And it's important to recognize that.

Is it often done poorly? Yes. Much of the History forum's best efforts have been debates over various ways to do this in the least-poor fashion.

But it's important to recognize that individual goals weren't worth as much in 1982 as they were in 1999.

I'm also not sure why it matters in a thread titled "Will Ovechkin hit 20 goals this season?".

They were worth exactly 1.0 goals in 1982 as they were in 1999 as they are in 2024.

The reason this thread exists is because Ovechkin is chasing the goal record, that’s the only reason we are all in here.

The argument seems to be that due to awarding Ovechkin ‘difficulty level - hard’ goals that are worth more than 1.0 goals puts him over 894 and therefor it doesn’t matter if he actually scores those goals or not. Making the record meaningless.

That’s why it’s in this thread. The record isn’t meaningless, and the assignment (for those who have missed it) is to count how many goals the players in the league have scored and then rank them.

If you don't like adjusted stats, there still remains many other stats that point to Ovechkin as the greatest goal scorer - such as the number of times he led the NHL (9), and the raw goal total differences between him and his peer group, and the number of 50 goal seasons, and the number of 50 goal seasons vs their peer group while they were in the NHL.

Edit: Of course, you responded to my post quicker than you could have possibly examined even a fraction of the data I provided. Maybe you are simply closed off to the idea?

But not the actual goals though. Not single season most goals, not fastest to 50 goals, not the all time goals scored record. None of it

EDIT: of course not, because you’ve already made up your mind and you’re not engaging at all with what I’ve said. All those peer group rankings are wonderful, but someone has scored more goals. That’s the mic drop argument here

 

[Bear of Bad News]

They were worth exactly 1.0 goals in 1982 as they were in 1999 as they are in 2024.

The reason this thread exists is because Ovechkin is chasing the goal record, that’s the only reason we are all in here.

The argument seems to be that due to awarding Ovechkin ‘difficulty level - hard’ goals that are worth more than 1.0 goals puts him over 894 and therefor it doesn’t matter if he actually scores those goals or not. Making the record meaningless.

That’s why it’s in this thread. The record isn’t meaningless, and the assignment (for those who have missed it) is to count how many goals the players in the league have scored and then rank them.

I'm not sure you read my post.

 

[Strangle]

I'm not sure you read my post.

I was responding to two statements in your post, but I read the whole thing.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I was responding to two statements in your post, but I read the whole thing.

If you think so.

 

[Midnight Judges]

But not the actual goals though. Not single season most goals, not fastest to 50 goals, not the all time goals scored record. None of it

If you think scoring a goal in a league where the average team scores 2.7 goals per game is the same as scoring a goal in a league where the average team scores 4 goals per game, then I don't know what to tell you.