Fordy
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- May 28, 2008
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at the end of the day no one ever has to debate ovechkin's defensive acumen because everyone knows it's 0
Will Ovechkin hit 20 goals this season?
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"You're a boring old man"
Malkin being brought up as some sort of knock against Sid has alwways made me chuckle. The amount of time they've spent to together at ES is insanely small.
Sid has routinely elevated bums on his wings. There is no comparison as to who's had the better line mates at ES, or who has benefitted from the PP more.
The answer is Ovie in both cases. By a lot.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Hockey players are far less likely to have good longevity if their conditioning is poor.
Ovechkin, at age 36, was superior or equal to Sidney Crosby at age 36.
You don't have a point.
Fordy
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"You're a boring old man"
Why does Sid continue winning this? I mean we're well past a decade of Sid leading this category. I guess players are just simps and racists against Far east Euro's?
Why do players and so many analysts say this if it's a load of rubbish?
@Midnight Judges
- Feb 10, 2010
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No it isn't. And that's not the only way players benefit from each other anyway.
Penguins fans have gone on and on for 15+ years about that one time an opposing team focused their best defensive player on Crosby in the 2009 finals. Ovechkin's entire career has been that way. He was never splitting the toughest match-ups with anyone because the Capitals never had a second line or another generational player that was anywhere near the threat Ovechkin is.
Of the top 20 players of all time, Ovechkin has the weakest second best player on the team.
Fordy
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exactly when do you think teams have put their toughest defensive matchups against malkin instead of crosby? must be a long list, so get started
if ovechkin wanted better teammates he shouldn't have demanded to be the then record setting highest paid player in the league. he doesn't need you crying about it for him
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
I've watched roughly 95% of Sid's career live, either in person or TV. He and Malkin have almost never skated together at ES. It's a microscopic amount. That's a fact. The vast majority of points scored together were on the PP.
Crosby has always gotten the Bergeron's, the Barkov's, the Selke type winners. If anyone on the Penguins has benefited from much, much, easier matchups, in Geno. Sid gets the toughest draws every single night. Opposing teams are drawing up plans to first neuter Sid and then Malkin. Not the other way around.
Again, speaking to a person who actually watches the games and has since day 1.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Fordy
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"actually every player in the league is lying for seasons on end about crosby being their most complete opponent, to be nice to him" is such a funny argument. why is no one lying about ovechkin to be nice to him then? you're having protracted arguments about entire facets of the game of hockey, where ovechkin's name will never and has never come up, and that's supposed to be some boon for his legacy?
hamzarocks
Registered User
Malkin is also very injury prone.
Misses a lot of games and has missed a lot of his prime due to injuries .. as has crosby to be honest
Ovechkin has had stacked/deep teams.
Mike Green in his prime
Alex Semin in his prime
Kuznetsov, Oshie, Wilson,
Carlson in his prime
Holtby in his prime
Its not like the Caps didnt ubderperform until 2018.
Pens had great teams at times but so did caps.
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Crosby is currently 24th in points and 8th in goals. On pace for 49 goals and 88 points if he plays all 82 games. Crosby has a PPG of 1.08 and a GPG of .60.
Ovechkin had 50 goals and 90 points in 77 games played. He was 16th in points and 4th in goals. Had a PPG of 1.17 and a GPG of .65.
So yes, Ovechkin was better at age 36 than Crosby has been pacing this season.
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Fordy
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wrong. i'm so glad i don't have to hang my hat on .05s of a goal to know who is better. you can get a solid gold .05 gpg and hang it over your mantle, pray to it every night, while the rest of us can rest easy knowing who is better
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"Stacked" team has 1 hall of famer, maybe 2 if Backstrom makes it.
Your post is gibberish.
Luigi Lemieux
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Because he's misrepresenting the data. Low defensive zone starts and no pk does not mean he's bad defensively. It means the penguins value his offensive game more than his defensive game. His two hundred foot game is still excellent, hence the praise from around the league.
- Feb 10, 2010
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It's not uncommon for people to continue believing things after being thoroughly disproven.
Fordy
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in 10 years, 20, 50, everyone will be talking about crosby as the best player of his generation. you'll be talking about .05 goals per game. i'm sorry but that's the truth. truth hurts!
- Feb 10, 2010
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I am not misrepresenting anything. The deployment data is indeed limited. It merely means Crosby doesn't deserve Selke consideration because he isn't contributing as much defensively as the real defensive players on the Penguins.
The on-ice goals against, however, does show that Sidney Crosby is the 4th WORST regular player on the Penguins in terms of preventing goals against at 5v5. So in addition to those other stats, it definitively shows that any mention of Sidney Crosby and "Selke" together is a farce.
Fordy
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except he is and will continue to get it. so you're wrong. just get over it
- Feb 10, 2010
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People will be talking about Ovechkin having more MVPs and a whopping 50% more goals in the same number of seasons.
Fordy
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no they won't. they don't even talk about it now. it's you against the world
Beau Knows
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If I was one of those people who thought goals were all that mattered and assists were worthless, I'd think Ovechkin was having a really bad season.
But I think passing the puck well is just as important as being able to shoot it, and he's been doing well at that this year, even as the goals have dried up. So he's on track for like 60 points, which isn't exactly terrible for a player in their late 30's.
I still think he ends up with at least 25 goals, but he'll need to heat up sooner rather than later.
But I think passing the puck well is just as important as being able to shoot it, and he's been doing well at that this year, even as the goals have dried up. So he's on track for like 60 points, which isn't exactly terrible for a player in their late 30's.
I still think he ends up with at least 25 goals, but he'll need to heat up sooner rather than later.
Old Gregg
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- Apr 13, 2010
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False. Conditioning is one thing but players who actually battle along the boards, in front of the net etc are more likely to get injured than a guy who floats in the open space between the dots while his teammates do all the heavy lifting.
Again...Phil Kessel is the greatest conditioned athlete of all time according to you
hamzarocks
Registered User
Pens stacked team has 2 hall of famers on it too...
Crosby + malkin
Letang probably wont get in due to injuries similar to Semin
Fleury hasnt been on pens since 2017 and his best years were 2018 and 2021 on VGK. He unfortunately cost the pens playoffs in 2012 and 2013 got demoted
Pens depth wasnt great in 08 and 09 final and cup win. Look at their roster top to bottom, the team won/almost won due to 87 and 71 those years
Ovechkin is the worst playoff performer of the 3.
He couldn't take over a playoff series like the modern day elite (Mack, Kuch, Drai, Mcdavid, Makar) outside of 2008 to 2010
To be fair, Crosby wasnt as good in the playoffs as those 5 guys either
Better than it used to be, which was a straight up liability that hung around the red line and never back checked. Luckily that mostly stopped after his peak ended.
Ted Hoffman
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I wouldn't call Backstrom weak by any stretch. I'd also probably nitpick "top 20 players of all time" because simply saying 'players' brings in a few goalies (which makes "second best player" compared to a forward weird) and a few defensemen (which also makes it weird). Maybe we should be talking 'top 20 forward' or 'top 20 goal-scorers' but that's a discussion way beyond what I was going to comment about.
In his 3 70-goal seasons Brett Hull had Adam Oates as a center for 2 1/2 of them; the next leading goal scorers were 31-year old Paul MacLean (34 in 1989-90), 28-year old Geoff Courtnall (27 in 1990-91) and 23-year old Brendan Shanahan (33 in 1991-92). He only had 5 other forwards besides Oates scoring even 20 goals, and Oates did it twice. That might be the closest analog to "weaker forwards by comparison" or "teammates unable to pick up any slack."
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