Will Ovechkin hit 20 goals this season?

[TooManyHumans]

It isn't that the NHL is bad at it. It's that the fans are extremely bad at it on top of being emotional. If fans were to take the time to understand the rules, they'd see that the NHL gets these calls right 90%+ of the time or so.

1 in 10 wrong is a ton.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

1 in 10 wrong is a ton.

I said 90%+ and that isn't an exact figure. It was to illustrate they will get it right the vast majority of the times.

That "<10%" also comprises the grey areas because of the nature of the game, and the technical limitations the NHL has.

Given that, even 10% of subjective/bad calls isn't too bad. It's not a life or death situation where you need 99.9% certainty or something. You'll never achieve that as long as there's some room for interpretation (hence the grey areas) on a rule.

 

[Sentinel]

He is still a Mario Lemieux (66) away from the record.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

He's not done yet even if he only finishes the season with 15. I do think he will condition hard this coming summer and could bounce back for another 30 next season. Still needing to score another 30 goals after he hits 40 won't be an easy feat, but is possible.

Next season will be the one that decides this record, imo.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

If that is a correct disallowed goal. By the same "interpretation" of the rules, every single time a stickblade touches an opposing player should be called a hook.

That would be an incorrect assumption. Game management and missed calls aside, there is far more room for interpretation in the wording of the hooking rule.

Rule 55 – Hooking
55.1 Hooking - Hooking is the act of using the stick in a manner that enables a player to restrain an opponent.
When a player is checking another in such a way that there is only stick-to-stick contact, such action is not to be penalized as hooking.
55.2 Minor Penalty - A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who impedes the progress of an opponent by “hooking” with his stick.
A minor penalty for hooking shall be assessed to any player who uses the shaft of the stick above the upper hand to hold or hook an opponent.

A simple "touch" is not sufficient to be deemed being called for a hooking penalty. It needs to restrain the opponent's movement. What constitute such restraining is the more subjective part.

 

[norrisnick]

That would be an incorrect assumption. Game management and missed calls aside, there is far more room for interpretation in the wording of the hooking rule.

A simple "touch" is not sufficient to be deemed being called for a hooking penalty. It needs to restrain the opponent's movement. What constitute such restraining is the more subjective part.

And yet a simple "touch" impedes a goalie.

Like I said... if this is sufficient to wipe out a goal, every touch of a stick blade is a hook.

Every bump after a dump-in is an interference penalty.

Every time a defender is pinning a player against the boards because the puck is nearby is holding.

That's the level of "technically, yeah that could be against the rules" being displayed here.

 

[Dessloch]

And yet a simple "touch" impedes a goalie.

Like I said... if this is sufficient to wipe out a goal, every touch of a stick blade is a hook.

Every bump after a dump-in is an interference penalty.

Every time a defender is pinning a player against the boards because the puck is nearby is holding.

That's the level of "technically, yeah that could be against the rules" being displayed here.

No, because none of these infractions are affecting the game result as much as preventing a goaltender from making a save! And the infractions you are mentioning are not part of video review for that reason! So you really have no ground to stand on with this argument at all!

 

[Kairi Zaide]

And yet a simple "touch" impedes a goalie.

Like I said... if this is sufficient to wipe out a goal, every touch of a stick blade is a hook.

In this case, as mentionned before, Dowd touched Askarov's shoulder and then his blocker. If you've ever played as a goalie, you know this is enough to put you off balance and impedes your movement and thus ability to make a save. This isn't just a simple "touch" with no consequence.

There can be a grey area for sure in some situations, as I mentioned before, but I don't see that one as being one. The league has actually been somewhat consistent in that any contact (that could be deemed GI under the scope of the GI rule) that can be "felt" by the goalie will be deemed as having impaired the goalie.

One other thing that I mentionned with minor penalties is also that 1) they're called in real time and cannot be reviewed, so refs ARE going to miss a lot, and 2) it is pretty much evident that referees partake in game management with regards to minor penalties, and willingly let some things go and/or make "weak calls" depending on the score to balance out penalties, regardless of their legality.

 

[kranuck]

No, but I thought he could hit 30 for sure. I still wouldn’t be surprised if he hit 35 or 40 next season.

And then?

When does he fall off in your fantasy world?

I don’t understand why people are pissed off about that call, I’d be livid if someone bumped my teams goalie in the crease and it was allowed to stand.

Seems like an easy no goal. Bumped the goalie in his crease.

It’s pretty black and white. Goalie in the crease. No defender pressuring the guy into the goalie.

Arguing over “did he actually make it impossible to make the save” is entirely beside the point. Shouldn’t and doesn’t matter.

 

[wetcoast]

Yes! Because that exactly situation happening in every game many times. And no one is looking slowmotions too prevent scoring. Except sidfans in Toronto when it comes to Ovi breaking the record. 4th goal disallowed in 30 games. About 30-40 goals in his career.

I'm guessing this will be the "excuse" if he falls short eh?

Watching the video it's pretty clear there was contact with the goalie and the goalie was in his crease time to move on here.

 

[norrisnick]

In this case, as mentionned before, Dowd touched Askarov's shoulder and then his blocker. If you've ever played as a goalie, you know this is enough to put you off balance and impedes your movement and thus ability to make a save. This isn't just a simple "touch" with no consequence.

There can be a grey area for sure in some situations, as I mentioned before, but I don't see that one as being one. The league has actually been somewhat consistent in that any contact (that could be deemed GI under the scope of the GI rule) that can be "felt" by the goalie will be deemed as having impaired the goalie.

One other thing that I mentionned with minor penalties is also that 1) they're called in real time and cannot be reviewed, so refs ARE going to miss a lot, and 2) it is pretty much evident that referees partake in game management with regards to minor penalties, and willingly let some things go and/or make "weak calls" depending on the score to balance out penalties, regardless of their legality.

I am 100% behind the belief of getting humans away from calling the game.

 

[norrisnick]

No, because none of these infractions are affecting the game result as much as preventing a goaltender from making a save! And the infractions you are mentioning are not part of video review for that reason! So you really have no ground to stand on with this argument at all!

You don't think dozens of bumps and impediments every shift don't add up to a shirt tail brushing a goalie? They wouldn't do it if it didn't impact the ability to create offense.

 

[kranuck]

And yet a simple "touch" impedes a goalie.

Like I said... if this is sufficient to wipe out a goal, every touch of a stick blade is a hook.

Every bump after a dump-in is an interference penalty.

Every time a defender is pinning a player against the boards because the puck is nearby is holding.

That's the level of "technically, yeah that could be against the rules" being displayed here.

The NHL allows hooking the stick.

 

[Dessloch]

Saturday night. Holidays. Full building of fans. Hall of famer face of franchise scores with 1 minute left. Crowd goes crazy. Situation room overturns goal. Crowd pissed. Disjointed OT period with PP waiting for whistle. Then home team loses in a skills competition. Home crowd goes home pissed. Is this the NHL' s intent with the product? For those that also watched the Cowboys/Lions finish it is the same thing really.

Now, does the NHL have as its duty to make sure Capitals fans are happy at all costs? Meaning not enforcing the rules just to give Ovi a free goal and Caps a free victory?

Or are they required to enforce the rules and keep the game fair for all teams even if that makes Caps fans angry on this particular occasion?

Do you think it would be fair to Predators fans and that organizations playoff hunt to disregard the rules just to give Caps and Ovi a happy night?

I do understand that Washington fans were dejected after celebrating the goal like a stanley cup victory only for it to be negated, but it was still ruled according to the rule book! They did not make up a rule to cancel out the goal.

 

[mrv52]

Now, does the NHL have as its duty to make sure Capitals fans are happy at all costs? Meaning not enforcing the rules just to give Ovi a free goal and Caps a free victory?

Or are they required to enforce the rules and keep the game fair for all teams even if that makes Caps fans angry on this particular occasion?

Do you think it would be fair to Predators fans and that organizations playoff hunt to disregard the rules just to give Caps and Ovi a happy night?

I do understand that Washington fans were dejected after celebrating the goal like a stanley cup victory only for it to be negated, but it was still ruled according to the rule book! They did not make up a rule to cancel out the goal.

The rule is subjective, whether you agree with it or not. I have made no statement one way or the other.

You can put this situation in any NHL barn and its still the same. The on ice product from the last minute of play, the entire OT, and the resulting skills competition was a garbage product. Last night was because someone in a media room in Toronto made a judgement call and is what this specific game will be remembered for. Is this the crap the NHL wants to put forward?

 

[wetcoast]

I am 100% behind the belief of getting humans away from calling the game.

Then be prepared for bigger penalty boxes and overlapping penalties basically all game long.

 

[mrv52]

Then be prepared for bigger penalty boxes and overlapping penalties basically all game long.

In addition, they can have a rules analyst on the broadcast team like the NFL.

 

[stranger]

He is still a Mario Lemieux (66) away from the record.

So 4 more seasons he'll be closing in.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

And then?

When does he fall off in your fantasy world?

I don’t understand why people are pissed off about that call, I’d be livid if someone bumped my teams goalie in the crease and it was allowed to stand.

Seems like an easy no goal. Bumped the goalie in his crease.

It’s pretty black and white. Goalie in the crease. No defender pressuring the guy into the goalie.

Arguing over “did he actually make it impossible to make the save” is entirely beside the point. Shouldn’t and doesn’t matter.

Some players didn’t fall off until they actually hit 40. There is no comparison for Ovechkin historically, because no player in league history ever showed that kind of consistency in goal scoring.

Very little of Ovechkin’s career is conventional, a lot of it defied logic (like throwing 3,000 hits and basically never getting hurt).

Also, don’t know why you’re quoting me on the overturned goal. As much as I wish he scored that one (would’ve been epic!), I can see where Dowd interfered. I don’t like the rule, but that’s the game unfortunately.

 

[george14]

Jagr scored 120 goals in the NHL after turning 38, Selanne scored 132 goals in the NHL after turning 38. Ovechkin has only scored 7 goals so far after turning 38, but everybody on HF Boards agrees that Ovechkin is a better goal scoere than Jagr and Selanne. So realistically Ovechkin should have atleast another 140-150 goals in him before it's all said and done.

Respectfully, that is some of the worst logic I have ever heard unless you are being sarcastic.

 

[MadLuke]

Respectfully, that is some of the worst logic I have ever heard unless you are being sarcastic.

Wonder what Trottier 0, Gretzky only 2 goals after turning 38, Bobby Hull 6 in the nhl vs 68 for Dave Andreychuck would mean under that logic.

 

[max21]

Rent free.

Just as rent free as Penguins fans who live in this thread to discredit Ovechkin at any opportunity. It’s kinda weird and funny at the same time

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Saturday night. Holidays. Full building of fans. Hall of famer face of franchise scores with 1 minute left. Crowd goes crazy. Situation room overturns goal. Crowd pissed. Disjointed OT period with PP waiting for whistle. Then home team loses in a skills competition. Home crowd goes home pissed. Is this the NHL' s intent with the product? For those that also watched the Cowboys/Lions finish it is the same thing really.

I would like officiating called consistently regardless of how full the arena is or whether the potential goal scorer is the face of a franchise. Or how crazy the crowd goes.

 

[norrisnick]

Then be prepared for bigger penalty boxes and overlapping penalties basically all game long.

If the players won't learn, they can vacate the league.

We survived the '05-'06 season...

I would like officiating called consistently regardless of how full the arena is or whether the potential goal scorer is the face of a franchise. Or how crazy the crowd goes.

The very goal in question, is allowed hundreds of times a year. Waving this one off is the inconsistency.

 

[wetcoast]

If the players won't learn, they can vacate the league.

We survived the '05-'06 season...

I don't think that you realize that AI would have a 3d 360 overall view of everything.

It would fundamentally change the way the game is played and the whole idea of sports is about man to man competition and using other men as referees.

Not everything needs technology in our medieval minds as we aren't very good at handling it.