Prospect Info: Wild Prospect Thread 2022-23

[thestonedkoala]

He didn't provide an explanation, he just provided his opinion on which was the better prospect. It's ok for him to have such an opinion.

And this is a discussion board. Asking for an explanation generates conversation and discussion.

 

[TaLoN]

And this is a discussion board. Asking for an explanation generates conversation and discussion.

Right, but you didn't ask, you posted as if it was an omission of something required.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Right, but you didn't ask, you posted as if it was an omission of something required.

That is what you may think, but it wasn't. He said he compared them and refuting my argument, which generally comes with an explanation.

 

[AKL]

That is what you may think, but it wasn't. He said he compared them and refuting my argument, which generally comes with an explanation.

But you didn't give an explanation for your original comparison either until after he compared them?

 

[Circulartheory]

Absolutely. We are talking about kids essentially and their development. There is a lot of factors that go into that.

Minnesota had one of the best pools back in the early 2010s and what did that get them? Because they couldn't develop them into the talents that they had them ranked, Minnesota was a huge disappointment. Could happen again.

Being 2nd or 3rd in depth in the long run isn't a big deal. Being 20th vs 2nd though is.

I'm torn on that point. I think that that top ranked prospect pool still is playing key roles on the team making us competitive. Dumba, JEE, Brodin, Kaprizov are key players. Granlund turned into Fiala who was a key player. Greenways very solid.

I don't blame us for moving on from Kuemper since he wasn't the same player in the Wild jersey. And Haula, inevitable via expansion draft

The rest was poor asset management. Leddy for Barker. Tuch for ... something.

I think this says more about what it takes to make a competitive team. Drafting is key to get talented players on ELCs to work in a salary cap world but its also about trading/signing the right players to complement those pieces. If all you do is draft and draft, and also overrate prospects or at least overestimate that amount of them become impact players, then you'll be stuck as a middling team. Pretty much the same reason I am against the general HF notion that you HAVE to suck (tank) in order to win the future. Theres more to it.

 

[AKL]

I'm torn on that point. I think that that top ranked prospect pool still is playing key roles on the team making us competitive. Dumba, JEE, Brodin, Kaprizov are key players. Granlund turned into Fiala who was a key player. Greenways very solid.

I don't blame us for moving on from Kuemper since he wasn't the same player in the Wild jersey. And Haula, inevitable via expansion draft

The rest was poor asset management. Leddy for Barker. Tuch for ... something.

I think this says more about what it takes to make a competitive team. Drafting is key to get talented players on ELCs to work in a salary cap world but its also about trading/signing the right players to complement those pieces. If all you do is draft and draft, and also overrate prospects or at least overestimate that amount of them become impact players, then you'll be stuck as a middling team. Pretty much the same reason I am against the general HF notion that you HAVE to suck (tank) in order to win the future. Theres more to it.

Tanking is just to get the MacKinnons, Makars of the world. Luckily we got Kaprizov without tanking, but if he leaves when his contract is up, are we gonna wait 21 more years for the next 5th round lottery ticket to hit? You need those type of superstar players to win, and the easiest place to find them is the top of the draft.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I'm torn on that point. I think that that top ranked prospect pool still is playing key roles on the team making us competitive. Dumba, JEE, Brodin, Kaprizov are key players. Granlund turned into Fiala who was a key player. Greenways very solid.

I don't blame us for moving on from Kuemper since he wasn't the same player in the Wild jersey. And Haula, inevitable via expansion draft

The rest was poor asset management. Leddy for Barker. Tuch for ... something.

I think this says more about what it takes to make a competitive team. Drafting is key to get talented players on ELCs to work in a salary cap world but its also about trading/signing the right players to complement those pieces. If all you do is draft and draft, and also overrate prospects or at least overestimate that amount of them become impact players, then you'll be stuck as a middling team. Pretty much the same reason I am against the general HF notion that you HAVE to suck (tank) in order to win the future. Theres more to it.

It wasn't just Granlund that catapulted Minnesota though; Zucker, Larsson were supposed to be role players, Coyle and Neiderreiter were to be heavy top 6 players. You also had Hackett (injury issues).

You're right about poor asset management as well.

 

[TaLoN]

Can we get back on topic of the current prospects, not 2010's prospects?

 

[Al Lagoon]

While the bevy of Wild defensemen present at the WJC didn't steal the show, I see many guys capable of perhaps a Nick Schultz career, who put up 2 assists in 14 WJC games over 2 years 2001-2, then went on to play 1000+ NHL games.

Good defensemen come in all shapes and sizes, and i like that the Wild have their deepest pool ever of d'man prospects with varying skills.

 

[thestonedkoala]

While the bevy of Wild defensemen present at the WJC didn't steal the show, I see many guys capable of perhaps a Nick Schultz career, who put up 2 assists in 14 WJC games over 2 years 2001-2, then went on to play 1000+ NHL games.

Good defensemen come in all shapes and sizes, and i like that the Wild have their deepest pool ever of d'man prospects with varying skills.

The only issue is that Minnesota doesn't have an offensive wizard on the backend. They have a lot of two-way or defensive defensemen. I don't even see a Dumba in the group.

 

[MuckOG]

The only issue is that Minnesota doesn't have an offensive wizard on the backend. They have a lot of two-way or defensive defensemen. I don't even see a Dumba in the group.

I guess it depends on what your definition of an "offensive wizard" is....but Lambos and Hunt definitely have the skill to score from the blueline and have shown it.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

The only issue is that Minnesota doesn't have an offensive wizard on the backend. They have a lot of two-way or defensive defensemen. I don't even see a Dumba in the group.

Why do we need an offensive wizard on the back end? if we have solid defensive defenseman that can chip in on offense while our forwards show off their wizardry who needs a defenseman dangling through people? let the offense be the primary focus to score offense and let our defense defend. If all of our d prospects can defend well, retrieve the puck quickly and efficiently and headman the puck we dont need any wizards on defense. if we can build like that our goalie does not need to be as good as we are hoping wallstedt to be even. We just need our offense to elevate their offensive creativity and show up on the scoresheet instead of relying on defense.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I guess it depends on what your definition of an "offensive wizard" is....but Lambos and Hunt definitely have the skill to score from the blueline and have shown it.

Hunt has injury concerns and Lambos hasn't really shown he has taken that next step offensively.

As for having one; that's kind of how the NHL is being set up. It's like having a decent QB in the NFL and a great running back and setting up a run first offense.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Hunt has injury concerns and Lambos hasn't really shown he has taken that next step offensively.

As for having one; that's kind of how the NHL is being set up. It's like having a decent QB in the NFL and a great running back and setting up a run first offense.

So who is the offensive wizard for the lightning? Hedman is their top D but i wouldnt call him an offensive wizard.

 

[57special]

Why do we need an offensive wizard on the back end? if we have solid defensive defenseman that can chip in on offense while our forwards show off their wizardry who needs a defenseman dangling through people? let the offense be the primary focus to score offense and let our defense defend. If all of our d prospects can defend well, retrieve the puck quickly and efficiently and headman the puck we dont need any wizards on defense. if we can build like that our goalie does not need to be as good as we are hoping wallstedt to be even. We just need our offense to elevate their offensive creativity and show up on the scoresheet instead of relying on defense.

Well, I am all about having a group of Dmen who can actually play D, but there is something to be said for an offensively inclined Dman. I think you only need one or two on your group. They can come in all shapes and sizes, but the one that is a a bitch to defend as an opponent is the guy who can skate like the wind, and has puck skills to go along with that. Those types get more room to wind up, and end up hitting the opposing Blue line at full speed, while the opposing Dmen are already backed up and are either stationary, or have lost their gaps, making it really hard to defend. Also, most teams defensive schemes are about accounting for forwards. Throwing in a Dman on the attack can really confuse and overwhelm the oppo.

We saw what Dumba could do for a little while. Guys like Makar are the ultimate...well, Orr was the ultimate... the downside of these types is that defending can often be of secondary importance to them. If they are prone to giveaways it can be disasterous.

There are other types like Carlson, Josi and Burns who really on smarts and the big shot, rather than skating.

Bottom line is that having an offensive Dman or two in your lineup adds a new wrinkle to your offense, and yet another tool to break down a defense.

 

[57special]

So who is the offensive wizard for the lightning? Hedman is their top D but i wouldnt call him an offensive wizard.

Hedman had 85 points, tying Fiala. Not sure what you are expecting? Sergachev is also very competent offensively, and only 24 yo.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I mean Addison could be a good offensive defenseman but... That means he has to get in the lineup

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Hedman had 85 points, tying Fiala. Not sure what you are expecting? Sergachev is also very competent offensively, and only 24 yo.

When someone says wizard i think of Makar with all of his ability. Hedman is good and put up points but i dont see him as a wizard.

Well, I am all about having a group of Dmen who can actually play D, but there is something to be said for an offensively inclined Dman. I think you only need one or two on your group. They can come in all shapes and sizes, but the one that is a a bitch to defend as an opponent is the guy who can skate like the wind, and has puck skills to go along with that. Those types get more room to wind up, and end up hitting the opposing Blue line at full speed, while the opposing Dmen are already backed up and are either stationary, or have lost their gaps, making it really hard to defend. Also, most teams defensive schemes are about accounting for forwards. Throwing in a Dman on the attack can really confuse and overwhelm the oppo.

We saw what Dumba could do for a little while. Guys like Makar are the ultimate...well, Orr was the ultimate... the downside of these types is that defending can often be of secondary importance to them. If they are prone to giveaways it can be disasterous.

There are other types like Carlson, Josi and Burns who really on smarts and the big shot, rather than skating.

Bottom line is that having an offensive Dman or two in your lineup adds a new wrinkle to your offense, and yet another tool to break down a defense.

maybe i am just looking at it incorrectly but dont defenses prepare for the players entering the zone rather than is he a forward or defenseman? If a defenseman is skating end to end he transitions into F1 and will be defended as so. Yes having a more offensively able defenseman can help as long as they can stick handle but if we had 6 brodins i would not care one bit about hoping one could be offensively inclined as he has just enough offense and all of that defensive ability that we would need.

 

[57special]

When someone says wizard i think of Makar with all of his ability. Hedman is good and put up points but i dont see him as a wizard.

maybe i am just looking at it incorrectly but dont defenses prepare for the players entering the zone rather than is he a forward or defenseman? If a defenseman is skating end to end he transitions into F1 and will be defended as so. Yes having a more offensively able defenseman can help as long as they can stick handle but if we had 6 brodins i would not care one bit about hoping one could be offensively inclined as he has just enough offense and all of that defensive ability that we would need.

As i said in the earlier post, a Dman winding up from behind his net gets to build up more speed than a forward receiving a pass in the neutral zone(usually), and there is also a delay before he hits the Blue line causing Defenders to be flat footed. That's something that doesn't happen with a forward rushing the puck, in most cases. Defenders also are faced with defending a 4th man, which puts more pressure on them. Without getting into all the offensive possibilities, which are numerous, having offensive pressure from the back as an option only makes your team tougher, and more complicated to defend. It is not at all like having a forward rush the puck, IMO.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

As i said in the earlier post, a Dman winding up from behind his net gets to build up more speed than a forward receiving a pass in the neutral zone(usually), and there is also a delay before he hits the Blue line causing Defenders to be flat footed. That's something that doesn't happen with a forward rushing the puck, in most cases. Defenders also are faced with defending a 4th man, which puts more pressure on them. Without getting into all the offensive possibilities, which are numerous, having offensive pressure from the back as an option only makes your team tougher, and more complicated to defend. It is not at all like having a forward rush the puck, IMO.

end to end was in reference to winding up behind the net which some forwards also do on a breakout. having a 4th player with skill able to jump up into the play helps, like Brodin can and does do which is why i say if you have 6 of him who can defend and also jump up in the rush it doesnt hurt.

defending a dman vs fwd coming up into the zone while winding up to skate end to end usually pushed the defense back further for easier entry rather than standing flat footed at the blue line. positives to that as its an easy entry.

I understand the benefit of having a Makar or similar defenseman, I am not opposed to it however I fully believe having a Makar or similar level offensively inclinded defenseman is not needed hence why i brought up Hedman who IMO is nowhere near the same wizardry. He is good and I would not turn away from having him on this team but I dont see him as an offensive dman. 85 points shows he is good yes but IMO he is a quality 2way dman who benefits greatly from that strong pp. 38 PPP is damn good and sure helped his 65 assists last season.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Pronman ranks Wild's "pipeline" (22 and under) as 8th best in the NHL, but his ranking of our prospects is a bit unusual. Does he consider Addison Wild's best skater prospect?

1. Boldy
2. Wallstedt
3. Addison
4. Yurov
5. Rossi

Corey Pronman's NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 8 Wild have talent at all positions

Ranking the top prospects and under-23 players in the organization. Plus, what to expect of every player.

theathletic.com

 

[MuckOG]

Pronman ranks Wild's "pipeline" (22 and under) as 8th best in the NHL, but his ranking of our prospects is a bit unusual. Does he consider Addison Wild's best skater prospect?

1. Boldy
2. Wallstedt
3. Addison
4. Yurov
5. Rossi

Corey Pronman's NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 8 Wild have talent at all positions

Ranking the top prospects and under-23 players in the organization. Plus, what to expect of every player.

theathletic.com

Addison ranked higher than Rossi is certainly a take, I guess.

 

[BagHead]

Pronman ranks Wild's "pipeline" (22 and under) as 8th best in the NHL, but his ranking of our prospects is a bit unusual. Does he consider Addison Wild's best skater prospect?

1. Boldy
2. Wallstedt
3. Addison
4. Yurov
5. Rossi

Corey Pronman's NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 8 Wild have talent at all positions

Ranking the top prospects and under-23 players in the organization. Plus, what to expect of every player.

theathletic.com

Pronman led me astray with Dominik Bokk, and I will never forgive him for it.

Jokes aside, Pronman's job is to get people talking about hockey, not to be the most accurate scout in the world. Sometimes he'll throw in some hot takes.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Addison ranked higher than Rossi is certainly a take, I guess.

Yeah. Especially since Minnesota doesn't appear to think he's that great.

 

[FourQuarters]

A-tým Loko Veselí s Pavlem Novákem ml. | Jihočeský hokej

www.jchokej.cz

First time see photos of Novak in training after he went public with his health issues. The owner of Rockets has previously said that he has had a high success rate with the treatment he has received. Wish him the best and a speedy recovery.
btw Was he coaching that team? Looks like he's lecturing the team on tactics haha