Why is Auston Matthews considered a top 10 player?

[Janne Niinimaa]

So you are largely basing it off of sophomore vs rookie year.

The 9 point difference this year also comes with one guy having 2 injuries. While you can't extrapolate minutes=points, Matthews also has better production/60.....McDavid only gets him via powerplay. Factor it all in, not sure how you can possibly see a big gap in production unless you focus your whole argument on sophomore vs rookie.

Ok rookie vs rookie & sophomore vs sophomore.
87 points (pro rated) vs 69 points.
100 points vs 82 points (pro rated).

Thats about a 20 point gap. Even more substantial.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It's ignored because those stats you want me to dive into are irrelevant in the face of a Hart, Lyndsey, Art Ross, and concensus of hockey fans. Why should I look up stats to prove something so plainly obvious to anyone besides Leafs fans. The reason it's ignored is because it's a waste of time.

So you prefer opinion over fact, unlike your previous stances of wanting to be objective.

It's taken an awfully long time to get you to say what we pretty much knew all along:

Despite trying to take a high road of objectivity, you quite clearly prefer point totals as your only measure and opinion outside of that and have zero intent to engage in an intellectual debate over actual objective numbers.

I think we all knew that anyways.

 

[BlueBaron]

I'm in a Matthews thread talking about Matthews. Did you want me to quote all the leafs fans who tried to turn this into an "Oilers suck forever and will never ever be good" and "the Leafs are way way way better and they just jealous" thread?

I don't care what you do. You can't expect relentless attacks to go unanswered. I'd rather you guys just put your attention elsewhere and you would probably see Leaf fans not bother anymore.

I mean it really does seem to be a main board thing that started this summer. A million threads comparing Oiler players to Leaf players and a constant theme of degrading them. We don't start these threads, Oiler fans usually do. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Ok rookie vs rookie & sophomore vs sophomore.
87 points (pro rated) vs 69 points.
100 points vs 82 points (pro rated).

Thats about a 20 point gap. Even more substantial.

More substantial than what?

Again, when you delve deeper, it basically tells you Connor is the more productive PP player but their production otherwise is very close. So Matthews needs to work on his PP (or find a coach to give both it and the right players to him).

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

You are also assuming that McDavid today wouldn't impact his team more than 2 seasons ago McDavid. We both have no proof until Mcdavid misses time.

Yes but assuming based on data. What are you assuming based on? You'll notice I mentioned a data that might change my mind.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

More substantial than what?

Again, when you delve deeper, it basically tells you Connor is the more productive PP player but their production otherwise is very close. So Matthews needs to work on his PP (or find a coach to give both it and the right players to him).

20 points is 20 points man. Twist it any way you want, thats a lot. They have a similar points per 60 like you said. If McDavid is converting 20 more points on the powerplay thats 20 more goals he's helping his team get.

 

[TheNumber4]

So you prefer opinion over fact, unlike your previous stances of wanting to be objective.

It's taken an awfully long time to get you to say what we pretty much knew all along:

Despite trying to take a high road of objectivity, you quite clearly prefer point totals as your only measure and opinion outside of that and have zero intent to engage in an intellectual debate over actual objective numbers.

I think we all knew that anyways.

Nah I prefer opinions plus facts that point to the same conclusion. What do you prefer? Obscure stats that only exist to make the argument for Matthews equanimity with McDavid like loose puck retrievals? Hey if you wanna talk about those extra stats and ignore the expert opinions of NHL writers, NHL players, and ACTUAL point totals then go ahead and talk about it. I'm not stopping you.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

Yes but assuming based on data. What are you assuming based on? You'll notice I mentioned a data that might change my mind.

I don't need to prove you wrong enough to search that up. We will see if McDavid misses time in the near future.

In the meantime, keep assuming that McDavid after 40 games of his career has as much of an impact as McDavid in his 3rd season.

 

[TheNumber4]

I don't care what you do. You can't expect relentless attacks to go unanswered. I'd rather you guys just put your attention elsewhere and you would probably see Leaf fans not bother anymore.

I mean it really does seem to be a main board thing that started this summer. A million threads comparing Oiler players to Leaf players and a constant theme of degrading them. We don't start these threads, Oiler fans usually do. Why do you suppose that is?

If you consider me saying Matthews is a top 20ish ranked player in the league because his point totals ranked 20th last year and around 50th this year as a relentless attack on leafs fans. That's not my problem, that's yours.

And sure an Oilers fan started this one thread, and it's a reasonable thread. Why should a 20th ranked player in production be regarded as top 5? Then you have reply after reply confirming that the OP has a valid opinion as fans of all teams weigh in with their top 5 that does not include Matthews for obvious reasons.

 

[bauer]

last year Matthews was 20th in scoring.

this year he is 52nd.

you can't actually be a top 10 player until you know, you actually finish in the top 10.

 

[TheNumber4]

last year Matthews was 20th in scoring.

this year he is 52nd.

you can't actually be a top 10 player until you know, you actually finish in the top 10.

Plain and simple. Logical and reasonable.

But any thing short of ranking Matthews as top 5 apparently is a "relentless attack on Leaf fans"

 

[nobody]

Yes of course. But when you're discussing one player vs another individually I would say personal accolades are important. As of now McDvaid has cracked 100 points and he's above 1ppg in his career. Matthews isn't. More time on ice is on McDavid's side. Better team is on Matthews side. It's hard to compare perfectly.

Better team doesn't equate to better line however. McDavid has had the luxury of playing with Vets and overall better offensive players thus far than Matthews. Nylander is a fantastic player but even last year Matthews only started playing with him at about the 30-35 game mark. Willie didn't produce a ton until he was moved to that line either but once he got comfortable he was hovering near ppg. Even then, Matthews spent his entire season last year with rookies. Not once did he have a non rookie on his line for more than a couple of shifts (and PP). Leafs as a whole are a better team and yes, they don't need to rely on Matthews to be the end all be all offensively, but having Matthews at the top taking away the hardest offensive minutes allows the rest of the team to flourish.

Once Willie settles in and becomes a more consistent player (which he has shown flashes of recently) and stone hands Hyman starts potting a few more goals consistently, Matthews' offensive numbers will look the same. Auston is the team leader in points right now even though he's missed 25% of the season so far. Leafs aren't an offensive juggernaut without him, they're an offensive juggernaut because of him.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

last year Matthews was 20th in scoring.

this year he is 52nd.

you can't actually be a top 10 player until you know, you actually finish in the top 10.

when's the last time someone finished top 10 in scoring despite missing 25% of games? Malkin only finished 14th in scoring last year, guess he's not a top 10 player anymore

having such a simplistic take should be discouraged to be honest

 

[nobody]

Plain and simple. Logical and reasonable.

But any thing short of ranking Matthews as top 5 apparently is a "relentless attack on Leaf fans"

No one is claiming Matthews is top 5 right now. Relax. Matthews has played exceptionally this year and without injuries would be at the top of the leader board.

 

[TheNumber4]

No one is claiming Matthews is top 5 right now. Relax. Matthews has played exceptionally this year and without injuries would be at the top of the leader board. Stop being so insecure and move along.

Without injury and with his current point pace he'd be ranked around 20th actually. Better than 53, but yeh not top of the leader board.

Those are just facts by way, it's not your personal insult of me being insecure.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

when's the last time someone finished top 10 in scoring despite missing 25% of games? Malkin only finished 14th in scoring last year, guess he's not a top 10 player anymore

having such a simplistic take should be discouraged to be honest

Except Malkin has finished in the top 10 in scoring many times. Matthews has yet to.

 

[bauer]

when's the last time someone finished top 10 in scoring despite missing 25% of games? Malkin only finished 14th in scoring last year, guess he's not a top 10 player anymore

having such a simplistic take should be discouraged to be honest

okay, lets go by PPG, Matthews is still ranked 23rd. he's nowhere near the top 10.

btw, wasn't that the argument Leafs fans were using against Laine last year? Laine actually had a better PPG than Matthews but Leafs fans went on about how it was Laine's fault he couldn't stay healthy. but now it's used as a crutch for Matthews not being near the top in scoring? make up your minds Leaf fans. either Laine outperformed Matthews last year or Matthews isn't anywhere near the top in scoring. you can't choose both.

 

[joe dirte]

No one is claiming Matthews is top 5 right now. Relax. Matthews has played exceptionally this year and without injuries would be at the top of the leader board. Stop being so insecure and move along.

best to ignore him. he's not gonna stop trolling and crying anytime soon.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Except Malkin has finished in the top 10 in scoring many times. Matthews has yet to.

yeah but not this year, or last, or the year before, or even the year before that. his ability has clearly evaporated and we can no longer consider him a top 10 player until he gets back in the top 10 in scoring

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

okay, lets go by PPG, Matthews is still ranked 23rd. he's nowhere near the top 10.

btw, wasn't that the argument Leafs fans were using against Laine last year? Laine actually had a better PPG than Matthews but Leafs fans went on about how it was Laine's fault he couldn't stay healthy. but now it's used as a crutch for Matthews not being near the top in scoring? make up your minds Leaf fans. either Laine outperformed Matthews last year or Matthews isn't anywhere near the top in scoring. you can choose both.

when you start holding people accountable for things completely different people have said, it's time to give up. you're not having a reasonable discussion

 

[TheNumber4]

Except Malkin has finished in the top 10 in scoring many times. Matthews has yet to.

Not to mention won an art ross twice, and a lyndsay and a hart and a conn smythe. But of course, this is all jus a conspiracy to bring down the great player of all time, Austin Matthews.

 

[joe dirte]

okay, lets go by PPG, Matthews is still ranked 23rd. he's nowhere near the top 10.

btw, wasn't that the argument Leafs fans were using against Laine last year? Laine actually had a better PPG than Matthews but Leafs fans went on about how it was Laine's fault he couldn't stay healthy. but now it's used as a crutch for Matthews not being near the top in scoring? make up your minds Leaf fans. either Laine outperformed Matthews last year or Matthews isn't anywhere near the top in scoring. you can choose both.

there were quite a few valid reasons to question laine actually. ES production. dependant on linemates. lots of EN goals. unsustainable shooting percentage. i mean hes a good player but its quite clear hes a tier down from matthews now, and they were right.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

yeah but not this year, or last, or the year before, or even the year before that. his ability has clearly evaporated and we can no longer consider him a top 10 player until he gets back in the top 10 in scoring

How is attacking Malkin a defense for Matthews inability to be top 10 in points?

 

[TheNumber4]

best to ignore him. he's not gonna stop trolling and crying anytime soon.

Lol. So talking about Matthews ranking in a Matthews ranking thread is "trolling" and I guess ragging on the Oiler fans and the Oilers organization in a Matthews thread is not?

 

[nobody]

Without injury and with his current point pace he'd be ranked around 20th actually. Better than 53, but yeh not top of the leader board.

Those are just facts by way, it's not your personal insult of me being insecure.

Without his injuries at his current pace he'd be sitting at 42 points and 14th place in scoring. With his pace prior to injury he'd be sitting at 30 goals and 52 points which would put him #1 in goals and #2 in scoring. How about you stop pulling numbers out of your ass and just leave the thread. You are beyond embarrassing yourself right now.