Why is Auston Matthews considered a top 10 player?

[MalkinsPierogi]

Why is his post that funny?

Matthews is NOT an undisputed top 25 player in the league.

4 goals in first game, 40 goals in rookie season, and playing for Toronto.


I swear to god these three things have completely blinded people that they believe such BS.

I don't see how a 69 point season, then being PPG the next (in just 31 games) warrants an automatic top 25 inclusion.

Who does he GO AHEAD "FOR SURE"

Proven cup winners, and PPG players (EVEN TODAY) like Kopitar, Getzlaf, Marchand-Bergeron?

Please.

I'd LOVE to hear that argument.

eichel sucks

 

[authentic]

I was referring to other players considered in the top 10. I didn't comment on Hyman. I said that Matthews needs to increase his assist totals, that's it.

Why though? He scores at a good enough to pace to finish top 2/3 in goals again. For a dominant two way center that has a lot of value. If he gets a lot more assists than really would there be any debate that he's top 5 at the least? Or does he just have higher standards than others to become one of the top players?

 

[GodEmperor]

Lets start over, because I don't think we're on the same page. The reason Matthews isn't in the top 10 is because he suffers from poor assist totals. He's not making players around him considerably better. He's close to the top 10, because he's an elite goal scorer, but I don't think he's elite enough (50-60 goals a year) to make up for his shortcomings dishing the puck.

You can say that he isn't an elite playmaker which is a totally fine position to take.

IF you however say he's not making the people around him better, you have either never watched the Leafs or you are willfully ignorant.

Please tell me how Nylander and Hyman did without Matthews for the 10 games, please tell me if you think Zach Hyman is a solid number 1 winger on any NHL team and finally please tell me if we should at all take into consideration high danger scoring chances as a metric of generating chances.

Thank you.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

You can say that he isn't an elite playmaker which is a totally fine position to take.

IF you however say he's not making the people around him better, you have either never watched the Leafs or you are willfully ignorant.

Please tell me how Nylander and Hyman did without Matthews for the 10 games, please tell me if you think Zach Hyman is a solid number 1 winger on any NHL team and finally please tell me if we should at all take into consideration high danger scoring chances as a metric of generating chances.

Thank you.

Lets make this even easier then, since I really don't have a strong opinion either way with him being in or out of the top 10. A top 10 player needs to finish within the top 10 (points) to be considered a top 10 player.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Why though? He scores at a good enough to pace to finish top 2/3 in goals again. For a dominant two way center that has a lot of value. If he gets a lot more assists than really would there be any debate that he's top 5 at the least? Or does he just have higher standards than others to become one of the top players?

Matthews would be in my top 5-7 if he potted even just 10-15 more assists.

15 more assists last year would have moved him from #20 to #7 in points (2 points behind #4). That's my only real issue with him.

 

[Panthaz89]

Why though? He scores at a good enough to pace to finish top 2/3 in goals again. For a dominant two way center that has a lot of value. If he gets a lot more assists than really would there be any debate that he's top 5 at the least? Or does he just have higher standards than others to become one of the top players?

You can finish high in goals without being a top 10 player...you act like he's Ovechkin but Ovechkin also put up big assist numbers almost every year along with his goals...same with Stamkos.

 

[Jot]

Here's highlight video that displays Matthews play without the puck.


The league as an overall have too many star players coming up, it's a tough task placing these stars in order from top to bottom. There's so much talent that a guy rated from top 7, could be just as good as a guy from top 15. (good problem to have for NHL)

Auston Matthews is a franchise center you build a team around. Plus us leafs fans haven't tasted #1 Center every since Sundin.

Matthews is an All Around Center, who is exceptional on all aspects of the game. (Offense and Defense)

We as hockey fans should be happy for more star power in the league.

 

[firstemperor]

Curious to what your top 10 list. This is a serious post and not a jab at you or anything, just curious.

I see the top 10 list as pretty dynamic, for example- Karlsson was probably a top 3 player last year by my books but with recency and moreover, the fact he just came off major offseason ankle surgery I'd be weary of placing him on such a list moving forward.

I'd definitely have Kucherov, Malkin, Crosby, McDavid in the upper tier. Everyone else thereafter is a bit debatable, including Kane (I don't think he drives possession as well as others and this muddies his actual impact on the game- only when we're talking best player in the league). I'd probably include Hedman, Doughty, Piets, Karlsson in the discussion as well. Which leaves a handful of forwards including Stamkos, Tavares, Matthews, Scheif, Getzlaf, Kopitar, MacK, Barkov, Tarasenko, Backstrom, Ovy and many others up for debate as well.....there's some process of elimination going on but given Matthew's relative usage and some other contextual factors (EV productivity), I'd give him the nod over a couple of the players I named for one reason or another.

The reason I don't think it's productive to actually spit out rankings is people are going to whine about bias or homerism one way or another (there's going to be some element of bias in either direction for any discussion) but I do feel pretty strongly about the fact Matthews deserves the distinction- whether that is earned given his age, etc. is another debate.

I'd like to think I'd feel the same way about a player that wasn't a Leaf- as it is a convenient argument for me, but I have had similar sentiments about polarizing notions before so it's not novel for me.

 

[jetsfan91]

Matthews is closer to the 11-20 then he is from 1-10

 

[Lahey]

Lets make this even easier then, since I really don't have a strong opinion either way with him being in or out of the top 10. A top 10 player needs to finish within the top 10 (points) to be considered a top 10 player.

Biggest facepalm ever.. oh so u literally need to be a top 10 point producer to be a top 10 player... yeah let’s just not look at anything other than points. So I’m guessing you think Josh Bailey is a top 5 player in the league right?

 

[Lahey]

Matthews is closer to the 11-20 then he is from 1-10

I think he’s top 10 but tbh I’d agree with that statement as well. He’s also 20 so he could easily be top 10 this or the next season

 

[leafsfuture]

Matthews is a top 10 forward IMO because he does everything. I see a lot of Jonathan Toews in his style, expect he is bigger, and has a better shot. Toews is a better playmaker at this point but doesn’t necessarily have the dynamic skill that Matthews has.

 

[authentic]

Lets start over, because I don't think we're on the same page. The reason Matthews isn't in the top 10 is because he suffers from poor assist totals. He's not making players around him considerably better. He's close to the top 10, because he's an elite goal scorer, but I don't think he's elite enough (50-60 goals a year) to make up for his shortcomings dishing the puck.

Fair enough. I think he is, but I'll let him prove it himself over the next year or so. I don't think him being just outside the top 10 is contraversial enough of an opinion for me to argue.

 

[authentic]

I see the top 10 list as pretty dynamic, for example- Karlsson was probably a top 3 player last year by my books but with recency and moreover, the fact he just came off major offseason ankle surgery I'd be weary of placing him on such a list moving forward.

I'd definitely have Kucherov, Malkin, Crosby, McDavid in the upper tier. Everyone else thereafter is a bit debatable, including Kane (I don't think he drives possession as well as others and this muddies his actual impact on the game- only when we're talking best player in the league). I'd probably include Hedman, Doughty, Piets, Karlsson in the discussion as well. Which leaves a handful of forwards including Stamkos, Tavares, Matthews, Scheif, Getzlaf, Kopitar, MacK, Barkov, Tarasenko, Backstrom, Ovy and many others up for debate as well.....there's some process of elimination going on but given Matthew's relative usage and some other contextual factors (EV productivity), I'd give him the nod over a couple of the players I named for one reason or another.

The reason I don't think it's productive to actually spit out rankings is people are going to whine about bias or homerism one way or another (there's going to be some element of bias in either direction for any discussion) but I do feel pretty strongly about the fact Matthews deserves the distinction- whether that is earned given his age, etc. is another debate.

I'd like to think I'd feel the same way about a player that wasn't a Leaf- as it is a convenient argument for me, but I have had similar sentiments about polarizing notions before so it's not novel for me.

I like this analysis. Pretty spot on IMO.

 

[Mallard]

I see the top 10 list as pretty dynamic, for example- Karlsson was probably a top 3 player last year by my books but with recency and moreover, the fact he just came off major offseason ankle surgery I'd be weary of placing him on such a list moving forward.

I'd definitely have Kucherov, Malkin, Crosby, McDavid in the upper tier. Everyone else thereafter is a bit debatable, including Kane (I don't think he drives possession as well as others and this muddies his actual impact on the game- only when we're talking best player in the league). I'd probably include Hedman, Doughty, Piets, Karlsson in the discussion as well. Which leaves a handful of forwards including Stamkos, Tavares, Matthews, Scheif, Getzlaf, Kopitar, MacK, Barkov, Tarasenko, Backstrom, Ovy and many others up for debate as well.....there's some process of elimination going on but given Matthew's relative usage and some other contextual factors (EV productivity), I'd give him the nod over a couple of the players I named for one reason or another.

The reason I don't think it's productive to actually spit out rankings is people are going to whine about bias or homerism one way or another (there's going to be some element of bias in either direction for any discussion) but I do feel pretty strongly about the fact Matthews deserves the distinction- whether that is earned given his age, etc. is another debate.

I'd like to think I'd feel the same way about a player that wasn't a Leaf- as it is a convenient argument for me, but I have had similar sentiments about polarizing notions before so it's not novel for me.

Yep that's fair. I wasn't calling you out or anything - I was just curious on your take. I have no disagreement on who you would consider in the Top-10 and agree it is/should be a dynamic list. I may not consider Matthews Top-10 but can't really fault anyone who would.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He was dominant tonight

 

[holy]

He was dominant tonight

Then what's with the pegging Matthews thread?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Matthews is closer to the 11-20 then he is from 1-10

Who are the top 10 then?

 

[lomiller1]

Please tell me how Nylander and Hyman did without Matthews for the 10 games, please tell me if you think Zach Hyman is a solid number 1 winger on any NHL team

It turns out Matthews possession numbers when he's away from Hyman are bad. Shockingly so.

finally please tell me if we should at all take into consideration high danger scoring chances as a metric of generating chances.

That depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Shot attempts are the best available predictor of future goals.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Crosby
McDavid
Matthews
Kucherov
Doughty
Karlsson
Tavares
Stamkos
Ovechkin
Bergeron

In no particular order

 

[besser]

Well with how much leaf hating goes on, someone has to put the bashers in check. Leaf fans don't defend themselves enough. Go look at the liljegren thread. Timothy starts the WJC okay.... comment after comment of "overrated" "bust". Timothy playing excellent now and complete silence. Leaf fans don't have the balls to pump up thier players and if your a Leaf fan that says something good about a Leaf, you are a homer and "how dare you say something good".

Maybe I’m missing something, but the whole point of what I said is because of you guys pumping up the tires! Those Matthews > McDavid threads , and being 100% serious about them, don’t help. It just proves how delusional you all really are.

 

[besser]

Crosby
McDavid
Matthews
Kucherov
Doughty
Karlsson
Tavares
Stamkos
Ovechkin
Bergeron

In no particular order

Lol no

 

[TheNumber4]

What a dumbass post. I can promise you no one is upset about having Matthews on this team.

Reading comprehension needed. Tears from losing McDavid draft does not equal people upset about having Matthews on the team.

 

[TheNumber4]

Tell that to Barkov and plenty of real NHL analysts who know the game...

Lol Barkov. Woopty f***in doo. I've seen Barkovs statement used to justify Matthews generational status plenty, newsflash for you guys' when the entire league votes him as MVP, you know, like the Hart trophy McDavid won, then you have an argument.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

hm.... tied 53rd in scoring....

He's 20th in points per game (he missed 10 games due to injury). He also plays 1-2 minutes less powerplay minutes than almost every big name player above him. He only has 6 PPP on the season. There are only 2 guys ahead of him with less than 10 PPP.

He’s a great player, no doubt. Overrated, obviously because he plays in Toronto. Definitely has potential to become a top 25 player in league if he’s healthy.

I'm pretty confident in saying he's a top 25 player in the league right now. I don't think many would debate that. Also we should really have this thread as top forward.. bunching all three positions together is dumb.

Lets make this even easier then, since I really don't have a strong opinion either way with him being in or out of the top 10. A top 10 player needs to finish within the top 10 (points) to be considered a top 10 player.

Well that's no the correct way to view top 10 players imo. Kessel was a top 10 player by your logic multiple times. But he lacks severely in key areas of the game. A guy like Kopitar scoring 70 points in a season is a significantly better player than Kessel scoring 90.

It turns out Matthews possession numbers when he's away from Hyman are bad. Shockingly so.

That depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Shot attempts are the best available predictor of future goals.

#1. He's played 80 mins away from Hyman in his career. That's not a big enough sample size for it to mean anything. He's never not started a game with Hyman on his wing.

#2. Shot attempts are not the best available predictor of future goals. As of now its expected goals, which is a more advanced version of shot attempts that takes into account location and angle. Matthews is one of the best in this since he entered the league.