Why is Auston Matthews considered a top 10 player?

[Snippit]

Nobody considers him a top 10 player in the game yet.

There’s idiots in every fan base but I assure you, nobody credible or worth listening to.

Top 10 forward? He’s in the discussion.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Oilers fan starts thread about Matthews not being a top 10 player....Starts his list with "No Order" and then lists Connor McDavid as first on the list.

LOL

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

exactly, and missing 10 games through 40 games is very significant. Similar statistically to missing 20 games by the end of the year. Does anyone with a brain really expect anyone with 60 games played to be among the top goal scorers compared to players who played a full season?

Idk, jagr won the art Ross with 63gp.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

Do we really need a statistical argument to say Matthews is Top 10?

There is no one in the league with his combination of size, strength on the puck, and shot. He beats goalies like its the 1980s. Just clean ridiculous snipes. To me it's as obvious as the sky is blue.

Yes, yes I do need a statistical argument.
you realize how bad your, and everyone else's, arguments are in respect to matthews? Hell, most people in this thread aren't making any argument; they are just typing out statements.

Look, he's a terrific player. However, all of the arguments I have seen for him are essentially as followed:
A collection of subjective premises.
Therefore, am is a top 10 player
Ex. It's not enough to say "he has the best combo of blah blah blah" you have to actually prove it, and just because he may have the best combo of whatever, it does not mean, or even imply, he is a top 10 player; moreover, having the combo is neither necessary or sufficient to being a top 10 player; Therefore, that is a flimsy premise to build your argument on, kind of like building a chair with three legs.
In summary: Your argument is trash. Stop acting like you are smarter than everyone when you clearly aren't.

 

[sparxx87]

Nobody considers him a top 10 player in the game yet.

There’s idiots in every fan base but I assure you, nobody credible or worth listening to.

Top 10 forward? He’s in the discussion.

A new No. 1: McDavid edges Crosby in TSN's Top 50 player poll - Article - TSN

Actually, multiple independent sources had him there before the season even started.

Do Oilers fans get some sort of satisfaction out of putting Matthews down? Unbelievable that some of you spent your Christmas break doing this crap. It’s sad and incredibly pathetic.

 

[tucker3434]

Toronto media doing Toronto media things. He will be a top ten player. Putting him there now is premature.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Since entering the league (so one and a half season), he is 25th in points.
NHL.com - Stats

Just that = not top 10 player. Consider then the top defensemen and top goalies and he is not even remotely close to being top 10.

 

[Hokinaittii]

Even if he isn't top-10 player yet, it won't take long until he can be consired to be one.

 

[HSF]

Nobody considers him a top 10 player in the game yet.

There’s idiots in every fan base but I assure you, nobody credible or worth listening to.

Top 10 forward? He’s in the discussion.

You haven't listened to hockey central at noon or leafs lunch for the past 6 months have you LOL. I have hear top 5 player many times

 

[Critical13]

You haven't listened to hockey central at noon or leafs lunch for the past 6 months have you LOL. I have hear top 5 player many times

What makes their opinion invalid? Is this a question of stats? How do you factor in things like quality of the team the play on? Advanced stats only tell part of the story.

In my opinion, he's on the tier of players in 4-15 tier, with McDavid, Crosby and Kucherov right now being a tier higher. Everything after those 3 is subjective.

This is the type of thread that will definitely be bumped in the year or so, should be very interesting to revisit.

 

[BruinLVGA]

I think a lot of people are getting thrown off because of the 10 games he's missed.

First 30 Games (2017/18)

Matthews: 17 G, 14 A, 31 Pts

McDavid: 11 G, 24 A, 35 Pts
Crosby: 12 G, 18 A, 30 Pts
Tarasenko: 13 G, 18 A, 31 Pts
Malkin: 10 G, 19 A, 29 Pts
Benn: 12 G, 12 A, 24 Pts

Brad Marchand hasn’t even played 30 games yet and he has 32 points...

 

[HSF]

What makes their opinion invalid? Is this a question of stats? How do you factor in things like quality of the team the play on? Advanced stats only tell part of the story.

In my opinion, he's on the tier of players in 4-15 tier, with McDavid, Crosby and Kucherov right now being a tier higher. Everything after those 3 is subjective.

Im replying to him saying no one considers him a top 10 player. A LOT of media heads in toronto do. But then again they always overrate their guys.

 

[Critical13]

Brad Marchand hasn’t even played 30 games yet and he has 32 points...

Brad Marchand is a very good player, but in my personal opinion he is bolstered by the team around him. When I try to figure out values on players, I try to imagine how they would do on a worse roster...would they make it better, or would the suffering outweigh their positive input. For Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, McDavid, Bergeron, Kane...I think these players are top players are any line in the NHL, any roster. Marchand I think needs to have talent on his line, because I don't think he can carry a line or a team on his back.

I am obviously bias towards centres though, I just believe they control the ice far more than a winger does, and they impact the game more unless you are talking about the absolute top level guys.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Stamkos is having such a great year I guess people have totally forgotten that whole "is he actually a winger?" conversation. At times throughout his career the Lightning have not looked like they trusted Stamkos to play his position away from the puck.

I know one thing...no one has ever/will ever question if Auston Matthews can play his position or not.

Here's a snippet from an SN article in 2015:

One of the hotter flash points in the discussion around Stamkos’ comfort level with the Lightning is how coach Jon Cooper has deployed him this season. Stamkos has spent his career in the middle, scoring at an amazingly prolific rate.

But despite his success in the NHL as a centre, Stamkos’ production for the first six years of his career was always closely tied to the puck distribution abilities of his wingers. Martin St. Louis helped generate much of Stamkos’ offence. The two-time Art Ross Trophy winner ranked in the top five in assists on four occasions during his tenure with the Lightning.

As a top point producer, Stamkos almost assuredly envisions himself as a complete player who can generate offence in ways beyond being a finisher; creating scoring chances for his linemates with his passing ability. He’s played centre throughout his career and has always seen himself primarily playing that role in the NHL, no matter the puck distribution skills of his wingers.

Unfortunately, this season Stamkos has spent limited time playing with the best distributors on Tampa’s roster (i.e.

One of Cooper’s default means of addressing the issue has been to play Stamkos on the wing with Valtteri Filppula. While this may have worked reasonably well in the second half of last year’s playoff run, it isn’t a long-term solution

 

[BruinLVGA]

Brad Marchand is a very good player, but in my personal opinion he is bolstered by the team around him. When I try to figure out values on players, I try to imagine how they would do on a worse roster...would they make it better, or would the suffering outweigh their positive input. For Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, McDavid, Bergeron, Kane...I think these players are top players are any line in the NHL, any roster. Marchand I think needs to have talent on his line, because I don't think he can carry a line or a team on his back.

I am obviously bias towards centres though, I just believe they control the ice far more than a winger does, and they impact the game more unless you are talking about the absolute top level guys.

Re bolded... You would have been correct until 14/15. Since 15/16, Marchand has been the kind of player that can for sure carry a line. He actually carried the whole Bruins in 16/17 with that 85 points season. I shiver at the idea of the Bruins without him last season.

 

[stampedingviking]

Not neutral pal, totally biased. Look at all the comparison threads, started by Oiler fans. Look at this thread, started by an Oilers fan, there is a small but vocal segment of Oiler fans who are so threatened by Matthews and the attention he gets they will do anything to disparage him. They will lie, they will slander Leaf fans, heck look at the Oiler forums where they talk about what bad people Leaf fans are after a loss.

It's actually pretty one sided. Leaf fans will defend Matthews and we have our nuts too who provoke by saying Matthews is better but all Leaf fans get painted with that brush. Mention Kucherov and some Oiler fans go crazy. We pretty much only get annoyed when someone says Laine or Eichel is equal or better, some Oiler fans foam at the mouth if you say anything about McDavid that is not praising him. No one else could be better, no one else could be generational etc etc.

You could say "McDavid is not that great against the boards" or "Kucherov sure is playing at a high level, could he rival McDavid?" and you will be branded as having an agenda, a life time Oiler hated, bitter because your star player is not as good. A lot of crazy stuff comes out of this tiny group. When they get called on their lies, slander and bull**** they just move on to the next thread and start all over again.

Leaf fans in general do not give a crap about the Oiler and like McDavid.

Both are as bad as each other

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Since entering the league (so one and a half season), he is 25th in points.
NHL.com - Stats

Just that = not top 10 player. Consider then the top defensemen and top goalies and he is not even remotely close to being top 10.

Based on the assumption that points=players, of course.

 

[weems]

He's lead the league in EV strength goals since he entered the league no?

 

[stampedingviking]

Because he has more potential than McDavid

Who has? Certainly not Matthews despite what Leafs fans want to believe.

31/31 GMs would take McDavid every day of the week.

 

[The Macho King]

Stamkos is having such a great year I guess people have totally forgotten that whole "is he actually a winger?" conversation. At times throughout his career the Lightning have not looked like they trusted Stamkos to play his position away from the puck.

I know one thing...no one has ever/will ever question if Auston Matthews can play his position or not.

Here's a snippet from an SN article in 2015:

One of the hotter flash points in the discussion around Stamkos’ comfort level with the Lightning is how coach Jon Cooper has deployed him this season. Stamkos has spent his career in the middle, scoring at an amazingly prolific rate.

But despite his success in the NHL as a centre, Stamkos’ production for the first six years of his career was always closely tied to the puck distribution abilities of his wingers. Martin St. Louis helped generate much of Stamkos’ offence. The two-time Art Ross Trophy winner ranked in the top five in assists on four occasions during his tenure with the Lightning.

As a top point producer, Stamkos almost assuredly envisions himself as a complete player who can generate offence in ways beyond being a finisher; creating scoring chances for his linemates with his passing ability. He’s played centre throughout his career and has always seen himself primarily playing that role in the NHL, no matter the puck distribution skills of his wingers.

Unfortunately, this season Stamkos has spent limited time playing with the best distributors on Tampa’s roster (i.e.

One of Cooper’s default means of addressing the issue has been to play Stamkos on the wing with Valtteri Filppula. While this may have worked reasonably well in the second half of last year’s playoff run, it isn’t a long-term solution

This was BS and poorly researched from the start. Stamkos has played maybe 15 total games on the wing in his entire career, and it's normally done to bust him out of a slump.

 

[stampedingviking]

Wait, you can read the point leaders from nhl.com and you have more hockey knowledge? I think it's obvious why Stamkos is outscoring him by 18 points, what good does playing dumb do you here?

To make it easier for a certain team's fans to understand?

 

[stampedingviking]

No rookie had scored 40 goals as a teenager since Lindros. No teenager in there draft +1 has done it since Lemieux.

Lets see if Boeser holds on, he's currently shooting 20%. How about the fact Matthews is top 5 in primary points at 5v5 since he entered the league?

Seriously, someone name me the last D+1 rookie to lead the league in ES goals? Name me the last rookie who led their team to the playoffs in their D+1 season at there best player. I'll be waiting.

Last I checked all goals counted equally, therefore you should be looking at totals not just cherry picking to suit your agenda.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Based on the assumption that points=players, of course.

So, it’s intangibles that make him top 10 instead?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

So, it’s intangibles that make him top 10 instead?

"Intangibles" seems like a cop out (assuming you know what the word means). There are many other tangible things that SHOULD go into what makes a player. I suspect an agenda would make you cling to points only.

 

[stampedingviking]

Matthews has 15 goals and 25 points at even strength in 30 games. Stamkos has 5 goals and 25 points at even strength in 38 games. Matthews is a much better defensive player, wins more puck battles, is a stronger backchecker, forechecker, better in the defensive zone, stronger on the puck, etc., figure it out.

What about all points, they count equally you know (maybe you don't)?