Why Did The Kings Trade Cammalleri

[Buddy The Elf]

In the end, it may have been attitude as well as money that resulted in the exit of Michael Cammalleri.

I don't know how much is/was known about Michaell having attitude problems but I thought he had a bitter look on his face everytime he was asked about the arbitration process. I think maybe he kinda got put in his place and didn't know how to respond to that. I think he'll respond this year. Watch him burn Labarbara for 3 or 4 in five hole.

 

[johnjm22]

And I'd like to have a bunch of losers like the Pens...losers like Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, Letang, Malone and loser assets like Esposito, C. Armstrong, Welch and others that helped them net a really huge loser in Hossa. Somehow those losers lost their way to the Cup finals and are poised to lose big again next year. And Hossa is going to lose it big time when he signs that 8-9 mil a year contract.

Crosby had 1 losing season with Pittsburgh.
Malkin had 0 losing seasons with Pittsburgh.
Staal had 0 losing seasons with Pittsburgh.
Fleury had 1 full losing season in Pittsburgh.
Letang had 0 losing seasons with Pittsburgh.
Malone had 1 losing season with Pittsbrugh.

Frolov has had 5 losing seasons with Los Angeles.

See the difference?

And I'm glad you brought up Hossa. Why do you think Atlanta couldn't retain him? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY FOR A LOSER.

The samething that happened to Atlanta with Hossa, will happen to LA with Frolov if we don't start winning.

Unfortunately the NHL system, like all the major sports award teams for losing with high draft picks. In the cap age, you can't sign free agents to build a team because you'll go over said cap. You have to draft. You have to lose.

In the CAP age, it's more difficult to retain draft picks because they hit UFA status at a younger age.

The Flyers were the worst team in the NHL during 06-07. Thanks to trades and free angency, they were one of the top 4 teams in the league in 07-08.

Detroit proves that coaching, developing, and scouting are all more important that picking high in the draft. I have a hard time believing that Detroit's stuggles 25 years ago, have much to do with their success today.

Here's the Redwings 1st round draft picks during those years:
1979: Mike Foligno (3rd overall)
1980: Mike Blaisdell (11th overall)
1981: None
1982: Murray Craven (17th overall)
1983: Steve Yzerman (4th overall)

So in those years of struggling, the Wings picked in the top 5 only twice. And of those players selected, only one of them turned out to be elite. And that player didn't play on the 07-08 cup team, and they didn't get any assets from him when he retired.

DETROIT WON THE 07-08 CUP BECAUSE OF COACHING, SCOUTING, DEVELOPING, AND FREE AGENT SIGNINGS.

Now with all this being said, YES you do have a point. Sucking for a few years can help you land some amazing players that can help bring you out of the cellar. All I'm saying, is that we need to be careful. If we maintain this losing culture, it will be difficult to retain our core in the CAP era where players hit UFA status earlier.

 

[Butch 19]

DL must win now. He understands that last year's the team should have been better. The losing culture is not yet bonded to most of this this young team. But a bad year this year is potentially a turning point in this team's future winning attitude. If we believe in the youth collected in this group they should be allowed to make their own destiny and let these last six years fade into distant memory. Begin the journey from chumps to champs. It must happen now. It can happen now.

agree 100%. I'm tired of seeing all this "talent" lose. Maybe they're not just that good.

Something positive has to happen in the upcoming DL year #3. He's made his mark on the roster, time to see what he's really done here.

If they don't win something next year, I'll be back for more though...

 

[TonySCV]

Something positive has to happen in the upcoming DL year #3. He's made his mark on the roster, time to see what he's really done here.

The only roster DL's making his mark on next season is Manchester's. That will be the only roster that'll have a decent chunk of DL's draftees/undrafted UFA's in it. The Kings might have 3 players DL has drafted if all goes well playing a regular shift next season.

The Kings, if all goes well will wind up 9-12 in the conference next year. .500 for next year's team will be on pace with how this year's team finished out, and .500 will only be good for 9-12 in the west.

- T

 

[sueroe]

Crosby had 1 losing season with Pittsburgh.
Malkin had 0 losing seasons with Pittsburgh.
Staal had 0 losing seasons with Pittsburgh.
Fleury had 1 full losing season in Pittsburgh.
Letang had 0 losing seasons with Pittsburgh.
Malone had 1 losing season with Pittsbrugh.

Frolov has had 5 losing seasons with Los Angeles.

See the difference?

And I'm glad you brought up Hossa. Why do you think Atlanta couldn't retain him? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY FOR A LOSER.

The samething that happened to Atlanta with Hossa, will happen to LA with Frolov if we don't start winning.



In the CAP age, it's more difficult to retain draft picks because they hit UFA status at a younger age.

Now with all this being said, YES you do have a point. Sucking for a few years can help you land some amazing players that can help bring you out of the cellar. All I'm saying, is that we need to be careful. If we maintain this losing culture, it will be difficult to retain our core in the CAP era where players hit UFA status earlier.

i agree you have to be careful in respect to the atmosphere or culture of losing in particular with players like Frolov given his age and his 5 years of losing as you say, but i guess that is the key in trying to sign these guys long term. Brown has been in the same environment and he didn't jump ship, but rather signed a six year contract.

The younger core have been winners at every level of hockey they have played at and most have been leaders in the past on their respective teams. Although many King fans have been subjected to that culture of losing, 10, 15, 20 + + years, the young nucleus have only been around one or two years. Hopefully they don't have that sense of entitlement yet that they must be on a winning team or take off.
This summer will tell the story if these guys are locked up long term, because then they take the lead and responsibility for developing the winning culture.

I think thus far DL drafted some good prospects with the potential to make it in the NHL, but time will tell. I think his acquisitions have been better in O'Sullivan and Johnson, plus the Purcell signing, and Wayne Simmonds (jury still out for the latter two in respect to NHL).

I don't think UFA's are going to run to LA to be fillers, and bridges. It will be once we start to develop some wins hopefully this year, that perhaps we can entice more established vets to come to the team at a time where we are ready to compete. But yes i think this year with signings and how our young core produces, goal tending etc, will be critical for laying out a foundation for the future.

I do worry about losing people like Cammy when they hit that ripe old age of "25 or 26". I was feeling better about the trade when i was having my blonde moment and thought we traded Cammy for the 13th pick and 48th I guess my eyes were open to his market value.

 

[Johnny Utah]

We are rebuilding and we traded a 26 year old. 'Nough said.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

We are rebuilding and we traded a 26 year old. 'Nough said.

A 26 year old who is going to be a UFA after this season and didn't want to come back at a reasonable salary.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I like how everyone assumes he didnt want to come back and have a reasonable salary...yet no one has any quotes from Cammy...a guy who has a sick crib in Manhattan Beach and tells everyone how much he likes it here.

 

[The Judge]

I like how everyone assumes he didnt want to come back and have a reasonable salary...yet no one has any quotes from Cammy...a guy who has a sick crib in Manhattan Beach and tells everyone how much he likes it here.

About Cammy staying... I don't know about that thing. But, "reasonable salary?" We can only speculate. But in retrospect, even when DT was GM he went to salary arbitration. Now with Dean too.That tells me one thing... he wants more to what was being offered to what he thinks he deserves. He may like Manhattan Beach but that doesn't mean he would like to stay. There's a but factor somewhere... He just thinks he's worth more to what he really is... do it 2 years in a row 30+ goals and I am sure any GM would give what he wants in general.

Cammy's good don't get me wrong.

 

[PSP]

About Cammy staying... I don't know about that thing. But, "reasonable salary?" We can only speculate. But in retrospect, even when DT was GM he went to salary arbitration. Now with Dean too.That tells me one thing... he wants more to what was being offered to what he thinks he deserves. He may like Manhattan Beach but that doesn't mean he would like to stay. There's a but factor somewhere... He just thinks he's worth more to what he really is... do it 2 years in a row 30+ goals and I am sure any GM would give what he wants in general.

Cammy's good don't get me wrong.

Based on what DL is willing to overpay "his" players and the guys who were injured when signed and couldn't produce, Cammalleri got hosed in arbitration.

2 years in a row of 30+ goals? Well, he had 26 under the oppressive AM system and followed that with 34 goals in 06/07 - that's close enough in my book for at least the benefit of the doubt.

Loyalty goes both ways....

This may sound strange, but I'm OK with Lombardi trading Cammalleri if he didn't fit into the overall plan - I just think he could have received much more with better asset management.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

As they said on the broadcast on TSN, if you want to move up in the draft, you better be prepared and willing to give up anything to get the player you covet.

Lombardi is quoted saying he couldn't package Cammalleri and one of the 2nd rounders to land a pick in the range where he could get the player he wanted. So he got a little creative and found a team willing to swap a 1st straight up for Cammy, which enabled them to move the pick along with the 28th to get to the range where they expected to land the player they were seeking.

You sometimes have to make these type of moves to get better. It's not as bad as say what happened in Nashville, losing a couple of players they developed in Timonen and Hartnell and losing Kariya for nothing. In the long run, it helps them retain their other top young players.

Perhaps this is a reason why you hardly ever see Detroit making a big splash in free agency. They bring up players from within who eventually get big raises, and that is how they are able to keep their core intact.

Look at the turnover some teams are about to face because they weren't able to properly distribute contracts that would help them retain their core. Ottawa is going to lose Redden and made a deal for two UFA players at the deadline and lost two assets in that process.

The Rangers are about to lose a grip load of players to free agency. They may or may not be able to retain some of them. We are seeing a potential problem brewing in Pittsburgh with the contracts they have coming up that need to be renewed.

You have to pick and choose but have to identify who the core players on the roster are. If they sign Cammalleri for even $5M, how much are they going to be able to afford to sign Kopitar, Johnson, O'Sullivan, Frolov when his contract expires, Bernier, then other young players who may have their entry level contracts expire within three seasons.

Unfortunately Cammalleri was the sacrificial lamb. Fortunately, the Kings added a player they highly coveted that could turn out to be a core player for a significant amount of time.

 

[PSP]

You have to pick and choose but have to identify who the core players on the roster are. If they sign Cammalleri for even $5M, how much are they going to be able to afford to sign Kopitar, Johnson, O'Sullivan, Frolov when his contract expires, Bernier, then other young players who may have their entry level contracts expire within three seasons.

There's plenty of money to sign Cammalleri if you aren't throwing away HUGE dollars on Blake, Handzus, Visnovsky, Thornton, McCauley, Cloutier, etc.

That's the part that doesn't make any sense - massively overpaying some marginal players while playing hardball with a significant piece of the core

 

[no name]

There's plenty of money to sign Cammalleri if you aren't throwing away HUGE dollars on Blake, Handzus, Visnovsky, Thornton, McCauley, Cloutier, etc.

That's the part that doesn't make any sense - massively overpaying some marginal players while playing hardball with a significant piece of the core

No such thing as asset management when they reboot the system every couple years.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We'll see what they do this summer with free agent signings, particularly the Blake contract.

As Lombardi has stated, with free agency, especially when it comes to the Kings trying to lure a free agent, you take his market value and multiply it by two. In Lubo's case, you look at the contracts Kimmo Timonen, Wade Redden, Sergei Gonchar, Tomas Kaberle all got and that sets the precedence for his contract after the season he had.

He simply overpaid for Thornton and McCauley for what they were able to do in the past on San Jose or Toronto. Thankfully, they are gone.

Now with Cammalleri, he is a young player who was seeking big dollars and a long term deal. We saw Lombardi have no problem rewarding a player like Dustin Brown, and Brown showed his loyalty by opting to accept less to stay here for six seasons. That is where both sides showed commitment. Same with Frolov when he signed his contract.

At this point, they can't overpay Cammalleri after the season he just had. And he wasn't going to accept less for a home team discount. That is why he is no longer with the team. We'll see what happens next summer and if Calgary has any difficulty in contract negotiations with Cammalleri.

Even his former agent was asking for a premium for the #10 pick since he wouldn't make the swap straight up and was asking for Moller to be packaged with Cammy.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I wouldn't say Ottawa lost two pieces, they traded Eaves and Corvo (who they signed as a UFA) and overpaid for....Eaves is injury prone so all they really lost was him. Ottawa fans wanted Corvo gone anways.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

hes only a sniper/ shooter nothing else. he barely can enter the opposing blueline.

 

[Goallum]

B
This may sound strange, but I'm OK with Lombardi trading Cammalleri if he didn't fit into the overall plan - I just think he could have received much more with better asset management.

What exactly do you have in mind?

 

[KingKopitar11*]

What exactly do you have in mind?

Id say Arnott

 

[PSP]

His value was greater:

1. Immediately following the arbitration ruling
2. Immediately following his hot streak at the beginning of last season

His value would likely be greater:

1. 20 games into next season when an underachieving team is looking for scoring
2. At the trade deadline when a contending team needs a boost or needs to compensate for an injury

 

[The Judge]

Based on what DL is willing to overpay "his" players and the guys who were injured when signed and couldn't produce, Cammalleri got hosed in arbitration.

2 years in a row of 30+ goals? Well, he had 26 under the oppressive AM system and followed that with 34 goals in 06/07 - that's close enough in my book for at least the benefit of the doubt.

Loyalty goes both ways....

This may sound strange, but I'm OK with Lombardi trading Cammalleri if he didn't fit into the overall plan - I just think he could have received much more with better asset management.

It doesn't sound strange PSP.

I agree with you that it could have been handled differently. Regarding the Handus, Blake etc... or as you said "his" players...maybe Dean just pays the veterans better because they already have a resume on a consistent basis than the younger players. They already have a history of producing. In Blake's case, it was more mentoring JJ.

Bottom line, no matter how we look at it as FANS, GMs have a different way of seeing and handling things IMO and that is by the end of the day it's all about budgeting the numbers and still build, create and assemble" a winning team. And Dean like all GMs have a plan on how to do it. Sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't. But the good news, it looks like we are on the right track.

Someone said on this thread in so many words asking for Cammy quotes that he did say he was asking for that much money, of course there's none! However, my response is, why would any player do that?

There you go.

 

[Goallum]

His value was greater:

1. Immediately following the arbitration ruling
2. Immediately following his hot streak at the beginning of last season

His value would likely be greater:

1. 20 games into next season when an underachieving team is looking for scoring
2. At the trade deadline when a contending team needs a boost or needs to compensate for an injury

As for the "was" options: hindsight is 20/20. They were trying to see if he could cast the negativity aside and be a good team player and a leader. Do you blame them for trying?

As for the "would likely" options: The value of "the Teubert" (the asset DL was looking to get by trading the Cammalleri asset) would have been correspondingly higher, if even available at all.

 

[DIEHARD the King fan]

Cammy will be a thorn in the foot for the Kings, in many more ways than one. First, centereing a line for Iginla, he will score 25-30 goals and get 50-60 assists. (is that worth six million in this league (think Drury or Gomez or Briere). Next, the kings failure to sign him belies the New Lombardi/Kings mantra about building from within, Cammy has never belonged to any other team and the kings always screwed him (if brown is worth 4.5 a year for 5 years, offering cammy 2.8 with the arbitrator coming in at 3 million is beyond insulting) How will the new kids feel when they get lowballed and MC comes to mind?
The lack of a productive first line center and Cammy is/was a first line center, [but for injury last year his number would have been better than Kopitar] will kill the Kings as purcell can not fill his shoes.
Bottom line is that the kings are still running on the cheap and when they do spend money they do it stupidly (e.g. Handzus at 4mil for three more years (bomb), nagy at 3.75mil, cloutier at three mil (dont let the door hit you on thee way out) Presiing, calder, roenick, and you cant find a way to pay Cammy. sounds like the Anschitz/lie-weekly mamgement group has a front man in DL who is conducting business as usual for the kings and that it will be three years befor they are competitive. Heck even the team mangement at the meetings with upset fans wouldn't say that they expect to be in the playoffs for the next two or three years. If your team leaders dont think its going to happen, then it surely wont. Sounds like they will simply mail it in to get high first round picks. great way to build a winning tradirtion with your new young stars.

 

[Legionnaire]

Cammy will be a thorn in the foot for the Kings, in many more ways than one. First, centereing a line for Iginla, he will score 25-30 goals and get 50-60 assists. (is that worth six million in this league (think Drury or Gomez or Briere). Next, the kings failure to sign him belies the New Lombardi/Kings mantra about building from within, Cammy has never belonged to any other team and the kings always screwed him (if brown is worth 4.5 a year for 5 years, offering cammy 2.8 with the arbitrator coming in at 3 million is beyond insulting) How will the new kids feel when they get lowballed and MC comes to mind?
The lack of a productive first line center and Cammy is/was a first line center, [but for injury last year his number would have been better than Kopitar] will kill the Kings as purcell can not fill his shoes.
Bottom line is that the kings are still running on the cheap and when they do spend money they do it stupidly (e.g. Handzus at 4mil for three more years (bomb), nagy at 3.75mil, cloutier at three mil (dont let the door hit you on thee way out) Presiing, calder, roenick, and you cant find a way to pay Cammy. sounds like the Anschitz/lie-weekly mamgement group has a front man in DL who is conducting business as usual for the kings and that it will be three years befor they are competitive. Heck even the team mangement at the meetings with upset fans wouldn't say that they expect to be in the playoffs for the next two or three years. If your team leaders dont think its going to happen, then it surely wont. Sounds like they will simply mail it in to get high first round picks. great way to build a winning tradirtion with your new young stars.

I agree for the most part, but bottom line is we won't know how good this deal turns out for at least five years.

But you point still stands. The Kings seriously lack someone with goal scorers instincts. Yes, he shoots alot, but go look at the numbers...Ovy almost 400? Basic hockey. You don't score goals unless you put the puck on net.

 

[DIEHARD the King fan]

ADD: Cammy was not a bad attitude on the ice nor in the locker room nor at practice, just when dealing with management from a team that always seemed to tweak him every which way they could.

He got injured this last season in a fight standing up for a teammate. The guy has heart, tons of game and whatever idiot called him just a sniper obviously doesn't go to games. He almost always get the puck intp the zone, without hardly ever drawing him linemates offsides. Face it, the Kings are losing money, didnt want to pay him his true market value and snubbed him by giving Brownie the deal he should have been offered.

As for the six million number, it was the NHLPA that took his case up with his agent and they based that number on Vannick's 7yr 7mil offer sheet from Edmonton thinking that Cammy's numbers weren't as good as Vannicks but if Vannick was worth 7 then Cammy is worth six. Clearly they overshot.

But the Kings offer pre-arbitration was insulting. Now our development in building from within will take that much longer and in the process we will lose more of our "core youth group" and as our better players fade away via trade or free agency, so they can win elsewhere, everyone will finally catch on, that management doesnt care about winning as long as Anschitz can develop Downtown and continue to get huge cash incentives and public bond money to fund his develpoment and fatten his wallet.

Talk is great and Lombardi can fill in his boxes (for player spots on the team of the future) but we still wont be play-off bound for three years minimum and who knows whether Kopitar, Johnson, O'Sullivan or Frolov will stick it out to wait. Based on Kings history, and reputation for poor player personnel decisions, would you?

 

[hans]

I'm not sure where you're getting your 4.5 mil/5 year Dustin Brown numbers, but he signed for 6 years at an average/cap hit of 3.175 million. Even in his 5th and 6th years when he would have been UFA, his salary is only 3.5 million.