Beauty eh?
Not sure if serious.
If it's the same amazing source who told you this (below), then I will bet against you in a heartbeat.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=14420559#post14420559
Why Did The Kings Trade Cammalleri
- Thread starter Stephen
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If it's the same amazing source who told you this (below), then I will bet against you in a heartbeat.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=14420559#post14420559
No you don't. Handzus was a UFA. UFA's make more than RFA's.
And what message WOULD it send to Kopitar, Frolov and Co. if they paid Camm his 6 Mil?? Frolov is playing for half of that and signed WITHOUT HASSLE for 5 years. Would you like to explain to Frolov, (a guy that is TWICE the player that Squid is) why he is only paid half of what they pay a one-dimensional Mike C?? Then when your done with that, go explain your reasoning to Dustin Brown who had 34 goals this year while leading the league in hits. Explain why he is only worth 1/2 of one-dimensional MC. When Kopitar is up for negotiations do you want to pay him double what Squid gets because he carries the offence?
No offense but you clearly haven't given much thought to a pay scale. If you ARE going to pay the big bucks, why not spend them on someone who brings more to the table than just goals. Some of you need to get over your man crushes and honestly ask yourselves what is better for the team.
PSP
The Resident Pessimist is back
OK - you're crazy!
The one thing I will never understand around here is why a "maybe" or a "possibly" is more valuable than a proven player with NHL credentials. I am as hopeful that Teubert has a long and healthy career as a member of the Kings as anyone, but the Kings got hosed on that deal.
...and if he's Justin Hocking v2.0...
OK - you're crazy!
The one thing I will never understand around here is why a "maybe" or a "possibly" is more valuable than a proven player with NHL credentials. I am as hopeful that Teubert has a long and healthy career as a member of the Kings as anyone, but the Kings got hosed on that deal.
...and if he's Justin Hocking v2.0...
So if you were Jay Feaster and I offered you Handzus for Stamkos straight up, you would do it because Handzus has proven more at the NHL level than Stamkos?
PSP
The Resident Pessimist is back
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
Then we gave up 1 year of Michael Cammalleri for him. Not a huge loss (no pun intended). The disparity in what Cammalleri wanted and what Lombardi wanted was not going to be solved in the next 12 months regardless who was at fault. We got what we could for him and at the end of the day we traded away something we have a lot of depth in for something we desperately needed. I don't know how we could complain. And I agree, prospects aren't a sure thing but neither was Michael Cammalleri's future with the Kings.
And something I commented on in another thread, does anyone find it interesting that Cammalleri's old agent made a pitch to trade for him? What did he offer? The 10th overall for Cammalleri and Moller. If I were DL, I would've question why such a low ball offer on an elite $6 mil a year player.
Lombardi didn't think so. He felt Cammy was at his max value right now as opposed to by the deadline next year.
What message does it send Brown, Kopitar, and Johnson that Handzus makes 4 million? What message does it send Labarbera and Bernier that Cloutier made almost 3million?
Salaries will also have disparities....Look at any other teams roster...Always one guy makes more than another who may have crappier stats.
Cammy had 87 points two seasons ago. Frolov signed his deal 2-3 years ago. That's he and his agents fault.
The Tikkanen
Pest
Cammy at 5 or 6 million a year looks like a bargain compared to the awful contracts Lombardi handed Blake, Handzus and Cloutier. But-he kept those players. He gave Blake and Handzus NTC's as well. IMO, if you trade Cammy you need to get a proven, young NHL dman with upside. To me the Pitkanen for Cammi rumor seemed to make more sense than moving up in the draft for a player that may take 2-4 years to develop in the minors. Again, Handzus is older, he brings nothing to the team, yet he was treated much better than Cammi. I expect Cammi to score around 80 points next season playing with Iginla and Kennan as his coach. Teubert better be good or this deal could very well be the nail in the coffin for the dismal Lombardi era of losing.
Sydor25
LA Kings
You can't compare a veteran player's contract to a younger player's contract.
Handzus is a veteran 2-way center, he has already been in the league a long time. They always make more, just like Blake & Visnovsky. When Kopitar is over 30, he will get a great contact as well, so will Frolov, O'Sullivan and Brown. Cammi has just 3 full seasons in the league and has had one great season.
You shouldn't get $5-6 million at 26 unless you are Crosby, Ovechkin, etc. Kopitar will probably sign for $4-5.5 million and will be worth it, he brings way more to the table than Cammi. O'Sullivan's next contract will be in the $2 million range, maybe 2-3 years. Frolov will probably sign for $3.5-5 million range and he also brings a lot more to the table than Cammi, plus he will be a 7 year vet when his contract is up.
Willard
Kings All The Way
I think it's even more that a guy like Teubert is only available now & not next spring.
Willard
Kings All The Way
What's the solution, then? Never to trade for high draft choices with established players?
The Kings used to do it the other way around. We got the "established players" such as the Rick Martins of the world while our high draft choices were swiped. This went on for far too many years.
Fat lot of good that ever did the Kings.
He did? Wow his legend has grown before his locker is even cleaned out. He had ONE impressive season where he tallied 80 points. That's worth 6 mil?!? Then last year he had 47 points in 63 games. He was hands down #5 of our top 5 forwards. You want to pay HIM 6 mill, and you ask about sending messages?!?
About 4 times so far in this thread someone has tried to explain to you that UFAs (I.E. Handzus) make more money than RFAs whose rights still belong to a team, yet you keep bringing up Handzus and his 4 Mil. Do you REALLY not understand the difference???
Instead of comparing him to Handzus (which is already ridiculously old), do you care to explain why he is worth 6 mill? Can you show me other players his age that make 6 mil and we'll compare in a more realistic manner?
Find me a guy that doesn't play physical, doesn't kill penalties, doesn't play 2-way Hockey, and had one impressive offensive season that makes 6 mill. Then you have a good salary comparison to Squid, and I will point out to you that this player is also overpaid.
I'm not saying Cammy deserved 6 million, I'm just saying we could've gotten more for him.
36 year old Adam Foote got himself a 1st round pick. Enough said. He was a soon to be UFA. Not a 26 year old 80 point getter.
And who knows? Maybe Cammy would've taken less to stay in LA...He does have a fancy house in Manhattan Beach and loves it here. Everyone said the arbitration pissed him off, but it didn't...he gave that interview to Hammond and seemed like he was over it.
36 year old Adam Foote got himself a 1st round pick. Enough said. He was a soon to be UFA. Not a 26 year old 80 point getter.
And who knows? Maybe Cammy would've taken less to stay in LA...He does have a fancy house in Manhattan Beach and loves it here. Everyone said the arbitration pissed him off, but it didn't...he gave that interview to Hammond and seemed like he was over it.
Goallum
Registered User
- Jul 23, 2003
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KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,589
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Then we gave up 1 year of Michael Cammalleri for him. Not a huge loss (no pun intended). The disparity in what Cammalleri wanted and what Lombardi wanted was not going to be solved in the next 12 months regardless who was at fault. We got what we could for him and at the end of the day we traded away something we have a lot of depth in for something we desperately needed. I don't know how we could complain. And I agree, prospects aren't a sure thing but neither was Michael Cammalleri's future with the Kings.
And something I commented on in another thread, does anyone find it interesting that Cammalleri's old agent made a pitch to trade for him? What did he offer? The 10th overall for Cammalleri and Moller. If I were DL, I would've question why such a low ball offer on an elite $6 mil a year player.
I think this post is right on. Someone asked what message does it send to the guys like Brown, Kopitar, O'Sullivan, etc. if you pay Handzus $4M a season, but you won't pay Cammalleri $5M.
I think the message it sends is if you are a young player wanting to make the big money then you better be a complete NHL player along the lines of a guy like Richards. Cammalleri is not a complete player. Bottom line is he will probably make about what he is worth this season.
And I love how some of you like to pretend that Cammalleri is a bonafide 30-40 goal player when he has done it exactly once. He could easily be the next coming of Mike Comrie.
The Kings needed young defenseman. They dealt from a position of strength (trading a winger in an organization that has many good young wingers) and were able to address a rather large weakness by dealing a wasting asset. Pretty good job by Lombardi if you ask me.
TonySCV
Golden
If he didn't have an injury-riddled season last year and put up lackluster numbers... you'd be right.
DL may wind up overpaying in retrospect 3-4 years from now when we can properly evaluate Teubert, but even if he does, it's not a significant enough overpayment to be in a huff about.
If Cammalleri had another lackluster start to this coming season on the Kings... he'd be worth even less at the deadline. There's no way in hades that Cammalleri would have still been a King after this year - zero chance. His days as a King were over when he went to arbitration and asked for the moon. Meanwhile you have guys like Brown who happily signed a long term deal without any hesitation even though in retrospect had Brown waited a bit longer he could have easily gotten more money. Attitude means a hell of a lot to DL and Cammalleri was out the door the moment he overvalued himself. DL's had a history (for better or worse) of holding the line on what he believes a player is worth.
- T
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I guess DL thought that getting a 17th then trading for the 12th in this years deep draft was better then waiting for the deadline to trade cammy for a first round pick prolly in the 20's in next years draft.
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
^ and you can add on the fact that a younger player is going to get the minutes Cammalleri got on the top lines so that speeds up another year of the development process without waiting for Michael to inevitably hit free agency.
Well we did get more for him. We got Calgary's 17th pick which is higher than 19.
But the fact that we didn't didn't get even more for him, may speak more about his actual value to other teams than DL's inability to get a better return. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE a shut down d-man is worth more to a team come play-off time than a one-dimensional malcontent who scored 34 goals ONCE in his career and now wants big money. I'd ask you what you'd rather have as a GM, but after seeing how large your man-crush on Squid is, I won't bother.
PSP
The Resident Pessimist is back
You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! .......except for one small problem.
The Kings didn't get a shut down d-man - they got a higher draft choice than they had. They selected a player who PROJECTS to be a solid shut down d-man, but until he produces at the NHL level it's just another name on a list of "maybe"s
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
And Cammalleri would also be another "maybe" to be a King beyond the 08-09 season.
So there is a risk if you keep Cammy or if you deal him for an asset that won't pay dividends until maybe two or three years down the road.
A part of the GM's job is his ability to make the risky moves that look questionable on paper but payoff in the end. Lombardi has a history of doing that. He did that early in his tenure as Kings GM when he dealt two proven NHL players in Gleason and Belanger for a prospect that had never stepped foot on NHL ice.
So there is a risk if you keep Cammy or if you deal him for an asset that won't pay dividends until maybe two or three years down the road.
A part of the GM's job is his ability to make the risky moves that look questionable on paper but payoff in the end. Lombardi has a history of doing that. He did that early in his tenure as Kings GM when he dealt two proven NHL players in Gleason and Belanger for a prospect that had never stepped foot on NHL ice.
I like Teubert and I wanted him badly....BUT, I still have to ask why Cammy, a 80 point getter only netted a top 15 pick when Adam Foote, a 37 year old D-man, gets a 1st rounder at the deadline.
Should we have waited till the deadline with Cammy? Would we have gotten more by letting him play out the season? Or would we have gotten less with teams knowing he is a UFA? Those are the questions I ask myself.
We traded a top 6 proven NHL goal scorer for a 18 year old. I love Teubert but I still feel an NHL player or some other compensation should've come our way. I have a feeling Cammy is going to light us up when he plays us.
Should we have waited till the deadline with Cammy? Would we have gotten more by letting him play out the season? Or would we have gotten less with teams knowing he is a UFA? Those are the questions I ask myself.
We traded a top 6 proven NHL goal scorer for a 18 year old. I love Teubert but I still feel an NHL player or some other compensation should've come our way. I have a feeling Cammy is going to light us up when he plays us.
PSP
The Resident Pessimist is back
He's got the "risky moves" part down - it's the "payoff" part that doesn't seem to be coming to fruition...maybe someday.
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