Speculation: Why are the Leafs so hesitant to change the main pieces?

[notbias]

Dubas is too stubborn to trade any of them... "we can and we will".

What an idiot.

Now he is re-signing them to raises.

 

[Racer88]

Meaningful, well thought out change is what we were doing until last offseason, and it was making us better.
Unnecessary, poorly thought out change is what we started doing last offseason, and continuing into this offseason, and it has made us worse.
Destructive, reactionary change for change's sake is what fans on here have been advocating for.

No specific player is "necessary to win". These players just help us more than any realistic alternative within that cap space.

Dubas was certainly not making meaninful well thought out changes.
Our goaltending was a mess of scrap heap projects, our core 4 still couldn’t put the team over the top even while consuming 50% of the cap. Our defence was marginal at best and our coach was inexperienced or incompetent …..you pick, I could agree with either
if you think squeaking out 1 st Round win is improvement we have different opinions of what improvements mean

Dubas is too stubborn to trade any of them... "we can and we will".

What an idiot.

Now he is re-signing them to raises.

Ya I’m not happy about the new GM either…….maybe it’s Shanny pulling the strings after all

 

[Antropovsky]

Simple Dubas was an idiot, Shanahan maybe a bigger idiot. Shanahans biggest mistake was Dubas. Not sure it's possible that anyone could've $%#$Ed a good think any more than Dubas did. From the core contracts, to the destruction of the teams culture, to the hiring of a rookie coach, to purging the teams assets... just a masterclass in stupidity.

 

[ToneDog]

Well, the floor is $11.5m, and you can thank our current moron of a GM for that.

I think Shanny forced him to cave to Willie's $11.5m demand. They should have waited until after the playoffs and made him a take it or leave it offer of $10mx8. Nobody was giving him $80m, let alone $92m (although some think the Hawks may have) on a 7 year deal. If he walked, you give Marner $11.5x8.

Fact is Leafs would rather overpay than allow them to walk for free (Hyman being the exception) and so they will probably pay Marner after he starts lighting it up.

 

[kevsh]

Destructive, reactionary change for change's sake is what fans on here have been advocating for.

God no, the message has been pretty clearly articulated for years: The one common thread among all of these years of playoff failure is Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Reilly, Nylander & Shanahan. And they all are still here, a few already extended.

That group collectively has not got it done nor seemed to understand they must change their approach despite multiple chances to do so. Whether it's the players changing how they play when it counts (they have not) or the team accepting that $40M in 4 underperforming stars doesn't work.

So, the only sane, logical conclusion that MLSE should have come to right around the Blue Jackets/Habs series losses is that they can't win with this formula and/or with these players so they must replace them with a president/players who can.

No one, absolutely no one, is for "destructive" change, it's about making difficult choices that a bold franchise has to make if they truly put winning above all else. Those choices, take for example trading Marner, may work or may not, but they have to try.

 

[ToneDog]

Simple Dubas was an idiot, Shanahan maybe a bigger idiot. Shanahans biggest mistake was Dubas. Not sure it's possible that anyone could've $%#$Ed a good think any more than Dubas did. From the core contracts, to the destruction of the teams culture, to the hiring of a rookie coach, to purging the teams assets... just a masterclass in stupidity.

I still cannot believe the Penguins could be so stupid to hire him a POHO. Goona be fun watching that franchise shit the bed with Dubas in charge.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Dubas is too stubborn to trade any of them... "we can and we will".

What an idiot.

Now he is re-signing them to raises.

So this either means you're happy with the management or that Shanahan was the GM the whole time which begs the question of why you're still heartbroken over his firing?

 

[GoonieFace]

They want to be the best at something, so having 4 of the top 12 salaries in the league is their Stanley Cup

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas is too stubborn to trade any of them... "we can and we will".

What an idiot.

Now he is re-signing them to raises.

speaking of being stubborn , your boi is still drafting based on what he perceives as inefficiencies

6 picks
- 3 overagers plus two who passed through two drafts
- 1 smurf

 

[notbias]

speaking of being stubborn , your boi is still drafting based on what he perceives as inefficiencies

6 picks
- 3 overagers plus two who passed through two drafts
- 1 smurf

today I learned that GMs are out checking out u20 hockey in Sweden and picking who to draft in the 7th round.

Really didn't think GMs did this much scouting, thanks for updating me on it.

 

[arso40]

I think Shanny forced him to cave to Willie's $11.5m demand. They should have waited until after the playoffs and made him a take it or leave it offer of $10mx8. Nobody was giving him $80m, let alone $92m (although some think the Hawks may have) on a 7 year deal. If he walked, you give Marner $11.5x8.

Fact is Leafs would rather overpay than allow them to walk for free (Hyman being the exception) and so they will probably pay Marner after he starts lighting it up.

i would not feel comfortable having marner for 11.5 instead of nylander marner is first line or pedestrian nylander scores anywhere you put him

 

[hotpaws]

today I learned that GMs are out checking out u20 hockey in Sweden and picking who to draft in the 7th round.

Really didn't think GMs did this much scouting, thanks for updating me on it.

or like Dubas what 20 year old to pick in the 4th and 6th rd

he saved one of his 7th rd picks to draft a strapping 5'7'' 157lb forward

 

[Stephen]

Seems pretty childish to believe that if the Team doesn't do what you want them to do it's because they are 'scared', 'chickenshit' or 'hesitant'.

Relative to the Atlantic Division competition in Tampa, Florida and Boston and their ability to make hard decision on upper echelon players in order to improve, the Leafs are absolutely hesitant, scared and chicken shit.

They are scared to move off their 2017 championship potential in fear of moving backwards but don’t seem to know how to take the next step forward.

 

[Its not your fault]

Habs fan coming in peace. Not looking for drama, just a question since yesterday and this morning.

I look at the Bolts the last two days. They went to three Stanley cup finals and won 2 out of 3. They then lose two first rounds.

The team is not standing pat and riding with the same core after all their success.

Moving up a young dman who yes got injured in Sergachev. They cleaned up their mistake with Jeannot. Stamkos their captain coming off a 40 goal season is likely not to re-sign. They want to do what the fans of Toronto want with Marner to take a cap reduction with term. I know their ages and one is a UFA but they tend to want to move up unless getting the player for Pennie’s on the dollar over term.

But speaking of age the leafs then are trying to lock up 35 year old Tanev to term.

I just was wondering where I know Leafs fans are split on Marner and changes needed. Why is it the Lightning are willing to tear down a portion of their team to re-tool which they acknowledge they need to get better and this after 2 years removed from 3 consecutive years of Stanley cup appearances all the while keeping the same coach and such as well.

Again not looking for trouble just a honest question why the Leafs are hesitant to try something new to get over that potential hump.

To make you ask questions.

 

[ACC1224]

Relative to the Atlantic Division competition in Tampa, Florida and Boston and their ability to make hard decision on upper echelon players in order to improve, the Leafs are absolutely hesitant, scared and chicken shit.

They are scared to move off their 2017 championship potential in fear of moving backwards but don’t seem to know how to take the next step forward.

Examples?

 

[notbias]

or like Dubas what 20 year old to pick in the 4th and 6th rd

he saved one of his 7th rd picks to draft a strapping 5'7'' 157lb forward

Like I said, thank you for informing me that he does the scouting of lower leagues so he is prepped for the 7th round.

I didn't think GMs did this, but good to know they do.

 

[Stephen]

Examples?

Do your own homework.

 

[ACC1224]

Do your own homework.

You brought it up.

 

[notbias]

You brought it up.

Tampa moved their #3 D and a forward approaching retirement and is #5/6 on their depth chart.

Boston has stuck with the same core for many years despite losing in the 1st/2nd round, but they did move their backup.

Florida moved Barkov after years of him underperforming... oh wait.

Florida is honestly the best example but they kept most of their core players.

 

[mobilus]

Habs fan coming in peace. Not looking for drama, just a question since yesterday and this morning.

I look at the Bolts the last two days. They went to three Stanley cup finals and won 2 out of 3. They then lose two first rounds.

The team is not standing pat and riding with the same core after all their success.

The Bolts already won their Cups so they can afford to mess with their main roster and not be considered failures for coming up short.

Montreal tried this game in the early ‘80s and ended up neutering their team with the Washington trade. Changing a recipe on the stove is no guarantee you’ll get a better meal.

 

[Stephen]

You brought it up.

How can you claim what the Leafs are doing isn’t chicken shit without a frame of reference to what the next guy is doing?

 

[Tak7]

Examples?

I mean, Tampa just blew a huge hole in their roster by trading away a reallllly good Dman, created a ton of cap space, AND let their franchise leader / captain walk in order get a younger, more dynamic winger.

Boston were also very patient once Bergeron and Krejci fell off their books, and instead of immediately rushing to spend that cap space on subpar pieces, took the hard decision to wait until more ideal players became available that they could sign for term (Lindholm and Zadorov).

Florida - trading away a Hart Trophy nominee and a very popular Dman in the room / D partner to your longest serving current player?

 

[ACC1224]

I mean, Tampa just blew a huge hole in their roster by trading away a reallllly good Dman, created a ton of cap space, AND let their franchise leader / captain walk in order get a younger, more dynamic winger.

Boston were also very patient once Bergeron and Krejci fell off their books, and instead of immediately rushing to spend that cap space on subpar pieces, took the hard decision to wait until more ideal players became available that they could sign for term (Lindholm and Zadorov).

Florida - trading away a Hart Trophy nominee and a very popular Dman in the room / D partner to your longest serving current player?

Yep, Tampa 'just did', They let one old guy go and kept another. If Tavares is looking for Stamkos money I'd expect the Leafs will move on as well. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

Still not seeing where these teams were brave for their choices but the Leafs are scared.

 

[Sypher04]

Owners would rather lose and sell a ton of jerseys with the tik tok crew than potentially win with ugly hockey unpopular hockey players who don't sell as many jerseys

That’s just horsecrap.
Many of the most popular players in this franchises long history were so called “ugly hockey” players.

 

[Tak7]

Yep, Tampa 'just did', They let one old guy go and kept another. If Tavares is looking for Stamkos money I'd expect the Leafs will move on as well. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

Still not seeing where these teams were brave for their choices but the Leafs are scared.

Huh?

Tampa letting their captain / franchise leader walk for nothing, and trading away a top pairing caliber Dman, isn't 'brave' and bold?

Embracing fresh ideas, and not being afraid to try something different in the wake of the evidence before them, is what Tampa did - it's also the anti-thesis of the Maple Leafs.