Speculation: Why are the Leafs so hesitant to change the main pieces?

[rumman]

I'm sorry that was above your level to understand... yes, McCabe gets an additional $3mil on the cap, to his current $5 mil. Marner gets an additional $2 mil, to his current cap. I mean read it again, and please don't tell me you are that thick....

Thick as a brick……….

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Because they're not the problem, and it won't make us better. Pretty simple.

As usual, you are absolutely wrong and I can tell you why without having to write a 750 word response.

We can’t score in the playoffs. Specifically in elimination games. The core consists of 4 massively overpaid loser forwards whose primary job it is to score and their production drops off significantly compared to the regular season.

The defense has been doing its job. Our so called high powered offence lets us down every year.

 

[hotpaws]

Like I said, thank you for informing me that he does the scouting of lower leagues so he is prepped for the 7th round.

I didn't think GMs did this, but good to know they do.

so your spin is it's not Dubas who's advising his scouting dept to target smurfs and overagers and it's just a coincidence the teams he is GM of take a large number of what he believes are draft inefficiencies , lol

 

[rumman]

Do your own homework.

Simple Jack asks a lot of simple questions for a guy who supposedly knows more about hockey than the rest of us………

 

[notbias]

so your spin is it's not Dubas who's advising his scouting dept to target smurfs and overagers and it's just a coincidence the teams he is GM of take a large number of what believed are draft inefficiencies , lol

I believe Dubas targets skill and IQ regardless of size or age.

Does that mean he is deciding who to pick in round 7? No.

It means he is giving criteria and trusting his scouts.

Drafting players who are small because of other criteria is not targeting by the way.

I am assuming Hunter's drafting philosophy is what you want...

 

[cyris]

I thought it was such a small window to do that since Pizza Boy had just landed, but now I wish he had pulled the trigger on both of them. They don’t want Marner so they’ll resign him just like they did with Styles becuae nothing says we don’t want you like shopping a player and when you can’t unload the stiff you do a 180 turn and resign him to a ridiculous contract………..

Yep. They will tell themselves that they can’t trade him and they don’t want to lose him for nothing so they have to re-sign him.

Last summer was the time to make a change. Now it’s too late and at this point I’d be surprised if they don’t use it as an excuse to continue with this core

 

[ToneDog]

Yep, Tampa 'just did', They let one old guy go and kept another. If Tavares is looking for Stamkos money I'd expect the Leafs will move on as well. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

Still not seeing where these teams were brave for their choices but the Leafs are scared.

What about 26 year old, Sergachev?

 

[darrylsittler27]

Leafs are being disingenuous if they’re trying to move him and saying they want to resign him. Be honest with him, tell him you want to move him and have no intention of resigning him, make it public and see if that helps him to waive. Why would he waive if your sending mixed messages and he thinks there’s a chance of resigning here. As per usual the Leafs SNAFU everything, and people wonder why many players wouldn’t consider playing here……….

No. We owe them nothing since we don't know. We may have overvalued Marner. If he doesn't play with Mathews and Nylander is he really worth 12 million!? Tb said no to Stamkos at 8 mill.

 

[Killswitch]

Being perpetually good in the regular season is the point. Shanny said it himself when he got here. he also said something about the playoffs but that part seemed like a throw in considering everything

 

[darrylsittler27]

As usual, you are absolutely wrong and I can tell you why without having to write a 750 word response.

We can’t score in the playoffs. Specifically in elimination games. The core consists of 4 massively overpaid loser forwards whose primary job it is to score and their production drops off significantly compared to the regular season.

The defense has been doing its job. Our so called high powered offence lets us down every year.

True. We are knixed this year. They have given Berube a chance but even he can't fix this in one year. I hate to tell you but it's next year when Tavares gets 5 mill, somewhere else.

 

[Stephen]

Yep, Tampa 'just did', They let one old guy go and kept another. If Tavares is looking for Stamkos money I'd expect the Leafs will move on as well. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

Still not seeing where these teams were brave for their choices but the Leafs are scared.

Under Jeff Vinnik’s ownership, Tampa has kicked Steven Stamkos, Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis to the curb to get ahead of a decline curve via free agency, buy out and hockey trade. There are 4 Stanley Cups between them. They also traded Mikhail Sergachev a week ago because they thought it would make them better.

Boston just moved a goalie one year removed from a Vezina Trophy in Ullmark. Traditionally that franchise has had no problem moving off Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton to make room for changes and have been in continuous contention since 2008-09 with a Stanley Cup and a tidy 3-0 record in the playoffs vs the superior Leafs.

Florida traded their Mitch Marner 2 summers ago to Calgary along with former number one Mackenzie Weegar and has a Stanley Cup to show for it.

 

[Stephen]

Huh?

Tampa letting their captain / franchise leader walk for nothing, and trading away a top pairing caliber Dman, isn't 'brave' and bold?

Embracing fresh ideas, and not being afraid to try something different in the wake of the evidence before them, is what Tampa did - it's also the anti-thesis of the Maple Leafs.

They also dumped their precious two captains in Lecavalier and St. Louis with no hesitation when it was time to turn the page. They were part of a Stanley Cup win…

But expect to hear how these situations are not perfect analogues for what the Leafs are faced with so they don’t qualify.

BTW, this is only our immediate Atlantic Division rivals. We haven’t even talked about the kind of cut throat moves Vegas has pulled off. Or even Nashville over the past 12 months.

 

[Racer88]

Under Jeff Vinnik’s ownership, Tampa has kicked Steven Stamkos, Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis to the curb to get ahead of a decline curve via free agency, buy out and hockey trade. There are 4 Stanley Cups between them. They also traded Mikhail Sergachev a week ago because they thought it would make them better.

Boston just moved a goalie one year removed from a Vezina Trophy in Ullmark. Traditionally that franchise has had no problem moving off Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton to make room for changes and have been in continuous contention since 2008-09 with a Stanley Cup and a tidy 3-0 record in the playoffs vs the superior Leafs.

Florida traded their Mitch Marner 2 summers ago to Calgary along with former number one Mackenzie Weegar and has a Stanley Cup to show for it.

All true and it’s no question the Leafs management is paralyzed by fear or they are delusional and thinking this failed build style and especially this sore of players can get it done

 

[Captain Crunch]

Lilly got 3mil, you don’t think McCabe isn’t going to want more than that? Sunshine and Lollipops projection right here folks……..


Have another glass of the cool refreshing drink………

View attachment 891981

Pelley had me believing as soon as it became evident that Tre, not Shanahan, would be the one going forward who would be making whatever changes to the team that he felt necessary. And so far I am pleased with what he has done. Yes, Tanev will not be playing for the duration of his contract, he will certainly be an upgrade to this d core while he does play, and Rielly will finally have a legitimate top 2 rhd for his partner.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

so your spin is it's not Dubas who's advising his scouting dept to target smurfs and overagers and it's just a coincidence the teams he is GM of take a large number of what believed are draft inefficiencies , lol

I ranked him 21st overall.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807131100646650326

Meanwhile...

 

[arso40]

Well, fact is, his agent is simply going to do this:
Nylander - 1 90 point season, 2 80 point seasons, doesn't PK
Marner - 3 90 point seasons, 1 80 point season, PK's frequently
And ask why the latter should take less than the former. It's why I argued they should have traded Nylander last year; I KNEW this was going to happen...

And thanks to this boneheaded contract handling, it's entirely possible in 4 years we're watching a team that's stuck in that "too good to tank, too bad to make the playoffs" limbo thanks to an aging overpaid William Nylander on an untradeable contract with an NMC..

Their captain / franchise leader isn't the player he used to be. You watch, we'll do the same thing with Tavares next year, because it's the same situation.

Why?? Nylanders better and at 11.5 is gonna cost you less than what marner with 8 years is gonna cost you. Tre realised that and overpaid to sign him

 

[Tak7]

Their captain / franchise leader isn't the player he used to be. You watch, we'll do the same thing with Tavares next year, because it's the same situation.

It's not the same situation at all.

Tavares isn't the leading points scorer or goalscorer in franchise history, and he didn't win multiple cups here as captain. He also isn't a critical part of his team's successful culture & philosophy. Nor does Tavares have the type of relationship with the fanbase that Stamkos has with TB fans.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well, the floor is $11.5m, and you can thank our current moron of a GM for that.

Willy's contract should be the ceiling, not the floor.

 

[Racer88]

Marner @ $13m would put the cherry on top of total incompetence. Makes me want to puke just thinking about it.

That would basically prove to us that we are wasting our time cheering for and hoping that this current management group including the new guy at the top could actually get some success.
Might as well just wait for the next tank and rebuild.
It sucks because it already looks like next year is going to be an absolute throw away year

 

[Captain Crunch]

Lilly got 3mil, you don’t think McCabe isn’t going to want more than that? Sunshine and Lollipops projection right here folks……..


Have another glass of the cool refreshing drink………

View attachment 891981

After what we've had to endure for the last 6 years by listening to the bullshit spewing out of Shanahan's mouth after every 1st round exit (except that one time), I can certainly see why you would think that. And who knows, you may be right. But I am hoping that what I saw at that press conference where Pelley was introduced as the new CEO, is a sign that MLSE has finally come to the conclusion that enough is enough! In other words, Shanahan should have NOTHING to do with how this team is constructed!

I really liked how Pelley had turned things over to Tre at that press conference, as well as how Shanahan had the look on his face of someone who knew that his time was quickly coming to an end. I am anxious to see what Berube can do with this team, especially with holding ALL players accountable. I also can't wait to see what difference having practically all new assistant coaches, especially Savard, will make.

I am pleased with how Tre has addressed the needs on defense. Rielly will finally have a legitimate top pairing dman to play with. Of course Tanev will not be playing the last few years of his contract, but he will probably be on LTIR for those years. Hopefully OEL can replace Rielly on PP1, and he did have a decent playoffs. No certainties for sure, but as it stands right now, the defense is definitely better than last season.

As for Marner and will he be traded, that is proving to be quite difficult. Thanks to Shanahan, Marner holds all the cards in this one. Marner has to agree to be traded to that team, which would also mean that team will be willing to pay him at least $12 million on his next contract (which would probably mean Marner would be the highest paid player on that team). And then, what assets would Tre be getting back that would make the trade worthwhile? I don't believe for a minute that he would be okay with getting pennies on the dollar. Therefore I will not be surprised to see Marner still on the team when the season starts. Now, what they do with him after next season, assuming he does not get moved, is another story. I really can't see things being much different next offseason, but I really hope I'm wrong about all of this.

To sum it all up, all of this is on Shanahan and the rest of the idiots who let all this happen in the first place, way back to when Mattews and Marner got EVERYTHING they wanted when they signed their previous contracts!

 

[Racer88]

Well, the floor is $11.5m, and you can thank our current moron of a GM for that.

Actually you can thank Shanny and Dubas for this as they set the ball rolling with the crazy initial contracts with 3 of the core..

 

[luiginb]

We can’t score in the playoffs. Specifically in elimination games. The core consists of 4 massively overpaid loser forwards whose primary job it is to score and their production drops off significantly compared to the regular season.

The defense has been doing its job. Our so called high powered offence lets us down every year.

This. There is a huge drop for all the core 4 in Playoff production vs regular season production

Matthews 75.65%
Marner 79.27%
Nylander 90.9%
Tavares 78.72%

Famed playoff "choker" Joe Thornton was at 80%, for scale. Three of the core 4 are below that.

 

[Captain Crunch]

If that’s the case we know who the real problem is.
It’s been decades of mediocrity here and I see little reason to believe it’s changing under the current GM.

So do you think that Tre should be able to clean up this gigantic mess in one offseason that Shanahan took at least 5 years to do? This will not be an easy fix. I would not want to be in the position Tre is in, with trying to address all the areas that need to be improved, while also having to deal with the next to impossible task of trading one of Shanny's favourites, Mitch Marner. This whole process is going to take some time.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Agree 100%. If we haven’t had some major success in the next 4 years we will be doing another tank and rebuild.
In the shorter term if we don’t go to the conference final then Shanny and Tre should be shown the door

I am putting none of this on Tre. Shanahan is the sole reason (as well as whoever the other MLSE idiots who were in charge) for why we are in this mess! We will just have to keep our fingers crossed that there is at least one GM and owner out there dumb enough to make at least a fair trade for Marner.

At least we will be rid of Shanahan (at the very least in terms of player salaries and team construction) after this season.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

They're not afraid.

They're stupid. There's a difference. It's hard to tell because they both lead to the same result.

Failure.

It's only a matter of time before Treliving does something stupid again. We all know he's gonna do something stupid. We just don't know how stupid it's gonna be until he does whatever it is he does that's so stupid.

I can't wait for it to happen too.

Look at the moves teams serious about wanting to contend are making. It's amazing how teams get better when you put better players on them. Rather than stuffing them full of no talent grinders like the Leafs do every year.

Stupidly hoping a four man skeleton crew, consisting of the world's most appropriately compensated hockey players, can drag them into contention.