Speculation: Why are the Leafs so hesitant to change the main pieces?

[Leaf Fans]

Habs fan coming in peace. Not looking for drama, just a question since yesterday and this morning.

I look at the Bolts the last two days. They went to three Stanley cup finals and won 2 out of 3. They then lose two first rounds.

The team is not standing pat and riding with the same core after all their success.

Moving up a young dman who yes got injured in Sergachev. They cleaned up their mistake with Jeannot. Stamkos their captain coming off a 40 goal season is likely not to re-sign. They want to do what the fans of Toronto want with Marner to take a cap reduction with term. I know their ages and one is a UFA but they tend to want to move up unless getting the player for Pennie’s on the dollar over term.

But speaking of age the leafs then are trying to lock up 35 year old Tanev to term.

I just was wondering where I know Leafs fans are split on Marner and changes needed. Why is it the Lightning are willing to tear down a portion of their team to re-tool which they acknowledge they need to get better and this after 2 years removed from 3 consecutive years of Stanley cup appearances all the while keeping the same coach and such as well.

Again not looking for trouble just a honest question why the Leafs are hesitant to try something new to get over that potential hump.

I don't know about the rest, but the will hopefully not have to lock up 35 year Tanev to term at 34, they don't want +35 contract.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Habs fan coming in peace. Not looking for drama, just a question since yesterday and this morning.

I look at the Bolts the last two days. They went to three Stanley cup finals and won 2 out of 3. They then lose two first rounds.

The team is not standing pat and riding with the same core after all their success.

Moving up a young dman who yes got injured in Sergachev. They cleaned up their mistake with Jeannot. Stamkos their captain coming off a 40 goal season is likely not to re-sign. They want to do what the fans of Toronto want with Marner to take a cap reduction with term. I know their ages and one is a UFA but they tend to want to move up unless getting the player for Pennie’s on the dollar over term.

But speaking of age the leafs then are trying to lock up 35 year old Tanev to term.

I just was wondering where I know Leafs fans are split on Marner and changes needed. Why is it the Lightning are willing to tear down a portion of their team to re-tool which they acknowledge they need to get better and this after 2 years removed from 3 consecutive years of Stanley cup appearances all the while keeping the same coach and such as well.

Again not looking for trouble just a honest question why the Leafs are hesitant to try something new to get over that potential hump.

Honestly, I think it's a multitude of things.
just not being emotional about it - I think they would make some moves if they are able to, and probably can't make any until the bonuses are paid. a big part of the reason is probably as people stated - the team feels like they are close. unlike a majority of people here, while I don't think they'll win a cup, this belief that the team can't even push towards the conference finals if they shore up a few things is kind of nuts to me. I think a part of it (outside of some things) - is more mental than anything else.

I also feel with good reason - the Leafs are almost always kicked in the crotch for trading anyone who we drafted (or had on the team for like 2 seconds) and then traded away. now just imagine the buzz back if the Leafs did trade Marner - he goes on a tear (as he does in the regular season) - but it clicks in for the playoffs and it's lights out and he helps [whomever] win a cup. (for the record, for me i don't care you need to make deals and sometimes it's people like Mitch) but everyone will forget that they hated him - and just poop all over the Leafs for trading him. with a player like that - you have to be A: sure, and B: make sure you get the right stuff back to mitigate the blow back.

I dunno about Tanev. Tre likes him and he'll be a good partner for Rielly.

that's the way i see it anyway.

 

[myleafs]

Let me ask You something do you think trading Serachev was a good idea? Even if they end up signing Jake to a new deal bringing in 1 impact player and losing 2 makes you worse, you can say Tampa isn't afraid to change the core but they are weaker.

Toronto isn't looking to get weaker they need to get better.

That's why they fired Keefe and hired Berube.

It's why they are adding Tanev.

They aren't going to make change just for the sake of change

Sometimes that is what's needed.

 

[myleafs]

Honestly, I think it's a multitude of things.
just not being emotional about it - I think they would make some moves if they are able to, and probably can't make any until the bonuses are paid. a big part of the reason is probably as people stated - the team feels like they are close. unlike a majority of people here, while I don't think they'll win a cup, this belief that the team can't even push towards the conference finals if they shore up a few things is kind of nuts to me. I think a part of it (outside of some things) - is more mental than anything else.

I also feel with good reason - the Leafs are almost always kicked in the crotch for trading anyone who we drafted (or had on the team for like 2 seconds) and then traded away. now just imagine the buzz back if the Leafs did trade Marner - he goes on a tear (as he does in the regular season) - but it clicks in for the playoffs and it's lights out and he helps [whomever] win a cup. (for the record, for me i don't care you need to make deals and sometimes it's people like Mitch) but everyone will forget that they hated him - and just poop all over the Leafs for trading him. with a player like that - you have to be A: sure, and B: make sure you get the right stuff back to mitigate the blow back.

I dunno about Tanev. Tre likes him and he'll be a good partner for Rielly.

that's the way i see it anyway.

Now just imagine if we sign him for 12.5x8 and he continues his mediocre ways in the playoffs.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Because we’re not a serious team. Guaranteed $$$ is the most important thing.

 

[hullsy47]

MLSE is a for profit business 1st, 2nd, 3rd...859th, etc.

Keeping the team together ensures they are consistently good and have marketable superstars. This is what's important when the goals are all money based and not actually about winning a cup.

They sell the brand .pelley can KMA lol

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Changing from the core is an admittal that they didn't have the right mix of players from the start, and more damning, were unwilling to change from it 7-8 years into the Shanaplan.

At this point they're all in. Shanahan's replacement will be in charge of the cleanup.

 

[Mickey Marner]

You cannot reason somebody out of a position that they did not reason themselves into. Management selected the conclusion that this team is good enough to win the cup and has been working backwards from that conclusion ever since.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Following Shanahan's vision until Shanahan perishes.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Now just imagine if we sign him for 12.5x8 and he continues his mediocre ways in the playoffs.

but i didn't say anything about re-signing him. and I don't think the team wants to but they're not just going to shove him on the street like yesterday's garbage either.

 

[myleafs]

but i didn't say anything about re-signing him. and I don't think the team wants to but they're not just going to shove him on the street like yesterday's garbage either.

No but you stated that imagine if Marner does x , y and z for another team if we let him go so I was presenting the alternate view. Nobody said anything about shoving him onto the street like yesterdays garbage, I certainly didn't, even if I do want him gone like yesterday good deal or not.

 

[Racer88]

Kadri trade PTSD

I would say Hyman trade PTSD

 

[Racer88]

NMC

I’m pretty sure they had chances to trade either Willy or Marner before the NMC kicked in or have I read it wrong.
I think they are paralyzed with fear and upper management are dummies, especially Shanny. Until he is gone we will go nowhere. In 4 more years we will be wondering why they are running this core back for the 12 straight first round exit

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Trying to wrap my head around how moving on from Jeannot is the same as moving on from our core guys. I think this comparison answers the question why we are hesitant. Our core guys are game changers with the capability of winning a cup straight out the gate with their new team.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Shanahan is chicken-shit and it’s too late now. Everyone has a NMC.

 

[Macman]

Berube is making noises that he wants the opportunity to work with Marner and that talent like that doesn’t grow on trees. Tre is going to give him that.

 

[AvroArrow]

Marner = NMC
Tavares = NMC
Matthews = Untouchable
Nylander = Basically untouchable
Rielly at 7.5M is fair value

The 2 guys that need to go have full NMC's and it has royally f***ed us. Dubas' mismanaging the cap crippled our flexibility for like 5 years. Not developing enough young D, most cup champs have some solid younger guys on cheaper deals contributing, we never had that. We can't just pay for top end D-men, we gotta develop some of our own who are cost controlled and can pitch in.

 

[NVious]

Owners would rather lose and sell a ton of jerseys with the tik tok crew than potentially win with ugly hockey unpopular hockey players who don't sell as many jerseys

 

[7even]

My conspiracy theory is because they're good for branding.

 

[Jojalu]

All toronto teams seem to be stuck in run-it-back mode.

I would say the Jays already changed their roster quite a bit by getting rid of Teoscar, Lourdes and Moreno.

They went from all offense, to all defense

 

[The Masters]

Lol simple
Leafs are a business first more than any other nhl team. Which means their priorities are focused on that and are too afraid to make serious changes because it may impact that. Shanny is a moron and a b*tch.

 

[Daisy Jane]

No but you stated that imagine if Marner does x , y and z for another team if we let him go so I was presenting the alternate view. Nobody said anything about shoving him onto the street like yesterdays garbage, I certainly didn't, even if I do want him gone like yesterday good deal or not.

but that's my point. most people want him gone. there really isn't any other view here because I personally don't think the Leafs are going to keep him regardless (even if they trade him or not). but people are acting why didn't we (to quote you) trade him yesterday good deal or not. people blast the leafs for giving up on their own talented drafted players. every time. please know i am not lumping you in this but you must have been here long enough that a lot of people here who say today "screw marner" are going to be the same ones to say "screw the leafs" if Marner gets it together. the person i am more upset with is Dubas for signing him to that crazy infernal contract to begin with [forget about what they could have done last year before the NMC kicked in]. but now that the bonuses were paid it won't surprise me if we see more traction

(is it a FULL NMC he has?)

 

[ITM]

Habs fan coming in peace. Not looking for drama, just a question since yesterday and this morning.

I look at the Bolts the last two days. They went to three Stanley cup finals and won 2 out of 3. They then lose two first rounds.

The team is not standing pat and riding with the same core after all their success.

Moving up a young dman who yes got injured in Sergachev. They cleaned up their mistake with Jeannot. Stamkos their captain coming off a 40 goal season is likely not to re-sign. They want to do what the fans of Toronto want with Marner to take a cap reduction with term. I know their ages and one is a UFA but they tend to want to move up unless getting the player for Pennie’s on the dollar over term.

But speaking of age the leafs then are trying to lock up 35 year old Tanev to term.

I just was wondering where I know Leafs fans are split on Marner and changes needed. Why is it the Lightning are willing to tear down a portion of their team to re-tool which they acknowledge they need to get better and this after 2 years removed from 3 consecutive years of Stanley cup appearances all the while keeping the same coach and such as well.

Again not looking for trouble just a honest question why the Leafs are hesitant to try something new to get over that potential hump.

I was just about to start a thread on the logistics of our club's asset valuation, but not with respect to larger moves, more from a standpoint of getting the pieces we want while addressing needs.

So take our pick #23 and Stian Solberg who is for all intents and purposes the exact type of player our club needs.

In another thread post-playoffs, I had a scenario trading Nick Robertson. Take into consideration we have a number of other assets that could/should be traded not named Marner, even if it's for small pieces or an aggregate of middling picks.

I have faith that Ben Danford is going to be a better pick than I would have thought - See Easton Cowan.

What I don't get - like you - is why we aren't more aggressive and more proactive? We can't with the Marner/Tavares situation without in some way spiting ourselves. We're a year away from true change. But...

Why aren't we a club that takes the bird in hand (i.e. Stolberg - our BPA at #23) and attempts to cut the line the draft with either a Robertson or an aggregate of picks to move into the territory, where consensus says, Danford was available....and again for prospect like Evan Gardner at 58...

Maybe Danford was as Clark says, the guy they wanted all along. But why isn't the take away the option might not have been either/or but both?

Your question's a good one.

 

[ToDavid]

Marner = NMC
Tavares = NMC
Matthews = Untouchable
Nylander = Basically untouchable
Rielly at 7.5M is fair value

Given the new contracts we’ve been seeing today, is it time we stopped lying to ourselves that Nylander’s deal isn’t just as bad as Marner’s ever was?

With the added bonus that it basically guarantees that you’re not getting Marner on anything less than $12m if you do ultimately want to keep him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Given the new contracts we’ve been seeing today, is it time we stopped lying to ourselves that Nylander’s deal isn’t just as bad as Marner’s ever was?

With the added bonus that it basically guarantees that you’re not getting Marner on anything less than $12m if you do ultimately want to keep him.

Not just Nylander's new deal - the old deals for Tavares, Matthews, and Marner were all worse, and Matthews' new one is about as bad. If Marner gets anything more than $11 on his next, it will be worse.

Dubas was a total disaster, and we'll be suffering the repercussions for years.