Why a Zach Hyman - Toronto extension, isn't a closed door, and may still even be likely.

[Mess]

agreed 100%! Pay Landeskog and get him here.

They are reporting ...

Landeskog will not be a bargain for Avalanche for much longer

"He could easily hit the $7M per season mark on a seven-year deal when he signs his next contract".

Leafs can't afford that, if they can't afford Hyman at $5 mil.

 

[francis246]

They are reporting ...

Landeskog will not be a bargain for Avalanche for much longer

"He could easily hit the $7M per season mark on a seven-year deal when he signs his next contract".

Leafs can't afford that, if they can't afford Hyman at $5 mil.

the leafs can afford Hyman if they really want to. You can move contracts out. The leaf DON'T WANT to pay Hyman more than 5 million which is smart. He's not worth anything over 5. Landeskog is better than Hyman and brings similar things. The Leafs would go to 7 with Landeskog, I'm not sure they would for Hyman

 

[mydnyte]

It’s hard to admire the “stars” when they continually choke. It’s easy to appreciate players who despite not being elite talents give it their all. This is easy to understand unless you’ve grown up with a silver spoon up your ass.

Hyman had more shots and chances that any other Leafs player and only had one point.
Hyman choked, and he also kept the puck off the sticks of our 'stars'

 

[Throw More Waffles]

In retrospect, Willy has a fair deal though. Marner is significantly overpaid.

Nope.

Willy was significantly overpaid as well.

He was paid more than his direct comparables that had better stats. Also more front-loaded/signing bonuses, and less ufa years than his direct comparables.

That was not a 20 goal/60 point contract.

Nylander was overpaid in the hopes he gets better. He did. So it appears he has a fair contract.

Bu other teams (with non-rookie gm's) pay their players based on what they've proven, not on what they hope they become. Mackinen was paid on what he had proven. If they paid him based on what they hoped he became, he would have signed for 10 mil plus.

 

[rumman]

Nope.

Willy was significantly overpaid as well.

He was paid more than his direct comparables that had better stats. Also more front-loaded/signing bonuses, and less ufa years than his direct comparables.

That was not a 20 goal/60 point contract.

Nylander was overpaid in the hopes he gets better. He did. So it appears he has a fair contract.

Bu other teams (with non-rookie gm's) pay their players based on what they've proven, not on what they hope they become. Mackinen was paid on what he had proven. If they paid him based on what they hoped he became, he would have signed for 10 mil plus.

When WN got his deal he reset the market for players of his caliber, now they are all getting more than they deserve using his contract as a comparable.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

When WN got his deal he reset the market for players of his caliber, now they are all getting more than they deserve using his contract as a comparable.

Nylanders deal is on par with guys like Ehlers and Pasta who were very comparible through their ELC years. All three of those deals were fine at the time and look good now.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When WN got his deal he reset the market for players of his caliber, now they are all getting more than they deserve using his contract as a comparable.

Point and Rantanen were waiting for Dubas to dramatically overpay Marner and use it as leverage. They were right that Marner was dramatically overpaid, but their gm's refused to even acknowledge the Marner unprecedented overpayment and paid their players fair market anyways. I'm pretty sure that every contract Dubas gave out has been entirely ignored by the other gm's. The guy was voted by agents as the easiest to negotiate with. It's such a joke.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Did I just read that right? A hometown discount is a 40M 5*8 contract now?

Are these GM'S out of there bloody minds? I'm not even sure he can live up to a bigger contract than that in year 1 let alone year 5

Are they going crazy or is it me because I wouldn't touch those deals with a 10 foot pole

One of 2 things is going to happen with Hyman. He is either going to sign for below 5m or way above 5m...Some idiot GM might bite and give him a Lucic type of deal. More than likely most teams will offer below 5m. I think Dubas is probably hoping its closer to $6m so he can say he had no chance to sign him rather than it being in the 4's and he would get some flak.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Nylanders deal is on par with guys like Ehlers and Pasta who were very comparible through their ELC years. All three of those deals were fine at the time and look good now.

Nope.

First off, Nylander was a proven 20 goal/60 point player. Pasta had paced for 38 goals/77 points his final elc year. It's a JOKE that Nylander used him as a comparable.

Let's also add that Nylander is FAR more front-loaded, FAR more in signing bonuses, and less ufa years.

Only leaf fans would defend paying a 20 goal/60 point player the way other teams pay a 38 goal/77 point paced player.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

After the core 4 forwards Hyman is the next best forward we have on the roster at present. Only Matthews, Tavares and Nylander have scored more goals than Zach over the past few years.

Leafs have so little forward depth to fill out the middle of their roster they can't even legally use the 7-3-1 protection formation for the expansion draft unless they include AHLers like Joey Andersen on Adam Brooks.

Even if they resigned Hyman and protected Kerfoot it still be stretch as to who that 7th forward worth protecting would be. Simmonds ??

To me this screams shallow forward depth and that is the exact opposite of what you would expect from a Cup competitive team. If Hyman leaves who is a key piece in Leafs top 6 that just creates a greater hole that needs replacing with little to no cap space to do so.

So basically we became the Penguins...a few really good players...and not much else.

 

[mydnyte]

Nope.

First off, Nylander was a proven 20 goal/60 point player. Pasta had paced for 38 goals/77 points his final elc year. It's a JOKE that Nylander used him as a comparable.

Let's also add that Nylander is FAR more front-loaded, FAR more in signing bonuses, and less ufa years.

Only leaf fans would defend paying a 20 goal/60 point player the way other teams pay a 38 goal/77 point paced player.

Klayton Keller makes more than Nylander if you want a 'comparable'. ...he of a career high 23 goals in his rookie season who hasnt been able to crack 20 goals since.
geez, JVR makes more than Nylander, and JVR has sucked since he left the Leafs. ...there are many players paid more than Nylander who arent nearly as good (and many older, and worse)
and younger ones getting paid for not producing like Hischier who hasnt matched his rookie output of 52 points with a 7.25 cap hit
Nylander may not have a single 40 goal season like Skinner, but, he also doesnt carry a 9mill cap hit for a career high 63 pts

So, i think more than just "leafs" fans would defend paying Nylander what he's getting.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The Oilers going after Hyman feels like an overreaction to getting shut down in those 3x games versus Toronto during this season. Kinda like when Nonis went hard in the paint for David Clarkson after he had some big games vs the Leafs when he was with Jersey.

Enjoy!

I agree...let Holland mess them up so bad that when McDavid is getting close to being a UFA he just walks...right into our arms. Especially if we haven't won anything by then (unlikely) he might get the Messiah complex and want to come here to do the impossible.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Point and Rantanen were waiting for Dubas to dramatically overpay Marner and use it as leverage. They were right that Marner was dramatically overpaid, but their gm's refused to even acknowledge the Marner unprecedented overpayment and paid their players fair market anyways. I'm pretty sure that every contract Dubas gave out has been entirely ignored by the other gm's. The guy was voted by agents as the easiest to negotiate with. It's such a joke.

I seem to recall Dubas saying after he signed Marner that the landscape has now changed...players are not going to be doing cheap bridge deals anymore or lower AAV discount deals. Guess he was wrong about that.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Klayton Keller makes more than Nylander if you want a 'comparable'. ...he of a career high 23 goals in his rookie season who hasnt been able to crack 20 goals since.
geez, JVR makes more than Nylander, and JVR has sucked since he left the Leafs. ...there are many players paid more than Nylander who arent nearly as good (and many older, and worse)
and younger ones getting paid for not producing like Hischier who hasnt matched his rookie output of 52 points with a 7.25 cap hit
Nylander may not have a single 40 goal season like Skinner, but, he also doesnt carry a 9mill cap hit for a career high 63 pts

So, i think more than just "leafs" fans would defend paying Nylander what he's getting.

I think the issue with Nylander is not so much his AAV is too rich...its about right for his level of play. It's the fact that Dubas in the end Caved and made him whole. He faced no consequence for his actions. That led Marner to push his buttons even more and here we are.

A lot of anonymous GM's had said when Dubas got hired that the Willy contract would set the tone for the rest of them and they were right. He failed on getting any kind of real deal there, although he didn't over-pay him ...he still caused some blood to trickle into the water for Ferris to take him to the cleaners. I assure you there is no way Marner does this shit with Lou in charge...like Lou or Hate him...there is just no way it happens.

 

[mydnyte]

I think the issue with Nylander is not so much his AAV is too rich...its about right for his level of play. It's the fact that Dubas in the end Caved and made him whole. He faced no consequence for his actions. That led Marner to push his buttons even more and here we are.

A lot of anonymous GM's had said when Dubas got hired that the Willy contract would set the tone for the rest of them and they were right. He failed on getting any kind of real deal there, although he didn't over-pay him ...he still caused some blood to trickle into the water for Ferris to take him to the cleaners. I assure you there is no way Marner does this shit with Lou in charge...like Lou or Hate him...there is just no way it happens.

the main screw up Dubas made was to not sign them the second they became eligible... i was always anticipating a 7-8-9 for the 3 of them (nylander-marner-matthews) or slightly higher for Marner/Matthews, but, that extra season when they exploded offensively screwed that opportunity.
during the Marner negotiations, i would have traded him. ...that one PO'd me more than Nylander.

 

[TMLAM34]

Dubas failed on so many levels when it comes to re-signing those three.

I’m not even arguing the 11.6 Matthews makes, but Dubas went and signed Tavares through free agency at a cap hit of 11 million. That would have been my cap off when it came to re-signing Matthews. IMO in no way should a player coming off their entry level contract make more than your teams captain (who is in their prime and a PPG player).

If Matthews is now 11 million instead of 11.6, Marner wouldn’t be signed at 10.9 and more likely at the 10 million mark.

Those savings aren’t huge, but 1.5 million would still help us out right about now.

 

[mydnyte]

I seem to recall Dubas saying after he signed Marner that the landscape has now changed...players are not going to be doing cheap bridge deals anymore or lower AAV discount deals. Guess he was wrong about that.

not really... the 'cheap' bridge deals are not actually cheap, and most of them have insane qualifying offer requirements at end of term. i.e. Meier 10 mil QO for a 6mil cap hit for 2 more seasons, or could have paid him 7-8 for 7-8 years ...his next contract is going to crush the sharks, or they lose him.
Boston bridged McAvoy at 4.9 which is a 'steal' but his QO is 7.3 after next season. ...short term saving vs him performing well post Chara, and now demanding north of the 7.3 min QO anyways.
Pasta signed a decent deal, but he's 2 years from a new contract, and the Bruins gave Coyle 5.25 ...he hasnt broke 40 points in 5 years, so, Pasta is going to cash in HUGE too, and if we are still in a flat cap situation Boston is royally screwed, as they also have Bergeron to re-up next year ...he and McAvoy may need 15 mil min to resign and need to ensure they have $$ to pay Pasternak likely 10 mil/yr or close to that

 

[mydnyte]

Dubas failed on so many levels when it comes to re-signing those three.

I’m not even arguing the 11.6 Matthews makes, but Dubas went and signed Tavares through free agency at a cap hit of 11 million. That would have been my cap off when it came to re-signing Matthews. IMO in no way should a player coming off their entry level contract make more than your teams captain (who is in their prime and a PPG player).

If Matthews is now 11 million instead of 11.6, Marner wouldn’t be signed at 10.9 and more likely at the 10 million mark.

Those savings aren’t huge, but 1.5 million would still help us out right about now.

the scary part is that Matthews took less on a shorter deal to accommodate Marner ...Matthews wanted an 8 year deal

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Nope.

First off, Nylander was a proven 20 goal/60 point player. Pasta had paced for 38 goals/77 points his final elc year. It's a JOKE that Nylander used him as a comparable.

Let's also add that Nylander is FAR more front-loaded, FAR more in signing bonuses, and less ufa years.

Only leaf fans would defend paying a 20 goal/60 point player the way other teams pay a 38 goal/77 point paced player.

Nylander was coming off back to back 60 point seasons. Pasta was coming off back to back 27 point seasons (40 pt pace) before breaking out for 70. Bruins were taking a gamble that he could repeat that performance and Pasta was smart to take the guaranteed money.

It's not our fault that guys like Pasta and Mackinnon has production explosions after they sign their deals. Nylander's and Ehlers deals are still good value.

To be honest I don't really care how the deal is stuctured. AAV is all that matters in a cap world unless you're a small market budget team.

 

[ITM]

They are reporting ...

Landeskog will not be a bargain for Avalanche for much longer

"He could easily hit the $7M per season mark on a seven-year deal when he signs his next contract".

Leafs can't afford that, if they can't afford Hyman at $5 mil.

How'd do you jump to that conclusion?

I'll turn that on it's head and say, even in the model that says Toronto can afford Hyman at $5M they would do better to offer Landeskog $7M. Apples to donuts difference in the two assets, Mess.

 

[myleafs]

I agree...let Holland mess them up so bad that when McDavid is getting close to being a UFA he just walks...right into our arms. Especially if we haven't won anything by then (unlikely) he might get the Messiah complex and want to come here to do the impossible.

Is it really though?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Hyman had more shots and chances that any other Leafs player and only had one point.
Hyman choked, and he also kept the puck off the sticks of our 'stars'

Why should we blame the $2 million player (who was also just coming off an injury) more than the stars or the coach who kept playing them together?

 

[PromisedLand]

Wonder what our haves think when they watch Leafs throw their teammates overboard on a yearly basis because they chose the money.

Mitch is the one we need to throw overboard. His Dad and Ferris can go with him.

The obsession with the fanboys/fangirls of dubas and co + marner remind me of the cases where people break off solid relationships (friends, family, colleagues etc...)they've had in their lives just to keep that one ego maniac person (girl friend/boy friend) happy because you are so blindly in love

 

[PromisedLand]

the leafs can afford Hyman if they really want to. You can move contracts out. The leaf DON'T WANT to pay Hyman more than 5 million which is smart. He's not worth anything over 5. Landeskog is better than Hyman and brings similar things. The Leafs would go to 7 with Landeskog, I'm not sure they would for Hyman

Yup... thats a great strategy.... become more top heavy; invest more in forwards and have more crunch on quality depth because this team has proven stars who can put the team on their back and get a lot out of bargain bin players.. right?

50% on 4 forwards is just not good enough; we gotta invest more heavily in teh forward group by adding one more forward at 7 million. who cares about quality depth?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Yup... thats a great strategy.... become more top heavy; invest more in forwards and have more crunch on quality depth because this team has proven stars who can put the team on their back and get a lot out of bargain bin players.. right?

50% on 4 forwards is just not good enough; we gotta invest more heavily in teh forward group by adding one more forward at 7 million. who cares about quality depth?

I am tired of the constant lookout for 'Name' players that we have to over pay for. How about we start drafting and finding some no-name players that turn into Name players?

Like you said...50% on 4 is not enough...we need Dougie Hamilton and need to sign Hyman because someone else might get that guy...its comical.