Proposal: Who's Interested? Chiarot for two 2nd's and a B+ prospect

[IIxGURUxII]

OP price is asinine

A B+ prospect is a top 15 pick in value

And on top of it you want an additional 2 second round picks ...

This all for a 4-5 defense that is on ice for more goals against over the last 3 years than Tyson "no defense" Barrie

My value for Big Ben .. still stands at a 2nd and a B prospect.. my opinion of course...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Added a few more guys who play similar games to Chiarot. Did this quickly so let me know if there are any errors. Muzzin and Chiarot have very similar numbers across the board.

McDonagh (Age 32) Vs Chiarot (Age 30) Vs Slavin (Age 27) vs Ekholm (Age 31) vs Pesce (age 27) vs Muzzin (age 33):

18 pts with 2 goals in 48 games
vs
12 pts with 5 goals in 48 games
vs
29 pts with 3 goals in 50 games
Vs
15 pts with 3 goals in 49 games
vs
27 pts with 4 goals in 40 games
vs
12 pts with 2 goals in 41 games

43% Corsi for with 67% of D zone starts
vs
42% Corsi for with 66% of D zone starts
Vs
52% Corsi for with 52% of D zone starts
Vs
43% Corsi for with 63% of D zone starts
Vs
50% Corsi for with 57% of D zone starts
Vs
47% Corsi for with 63% of D zone starts

23:02 min a game
vs
23:20 min a game
Vs
23:52 min a game
Vs
23:15 min a game
Vs
21:57 min a game
Vs
21:00 min a game

3:08 min a game on the PK
vs
3:06 min a game on the PK
Vs
3:31 min a game on the PK
Vs
3:30 min a game on the PK
Vs
2:59 min a game on the PK
Vs
2:41 min a game on the PK

3.49 hits/60
vs
5.46 hits/60
Vs
1.80 hits/60
Vs
2.19 hits/60
Vs
1.77 hits/60
Vs
5.85 hits/60

4.59 blocks/60
vs
4.32 blocks/60
Vs
4.32 blocks/60
Vs
2.92 blocks/60
Vs
3.75 blocks/60
Vs
3.69 blocks/60

0.72 giveaways/60
vs
2.67 giveaways/60
Vs
1.35 giveaways/60
Vs
1.88 giveaways/60
Vs
1.36 giveaways/60
Vs
2.92 giveaways/60

0.83 takeaways/60
vs
0.76 takeaways/60
Vs
2.51 takeaways/60
Vs
1.04 takeaways/60
Vs
1.57 takeaways/60
Vs
0.83 takeaways/60

 

[Habs Halifax]

Can the Habs trade him without taking back a cap dump and/or retaining? How many playoff teams have the cap space to add him without some sort of assistance to make the cap work and would give up a lot for him? To me, it sounds like temporary cap relief is the cost of doing business for the Habs, not a reason for an additional "service fee" that the buyer needs to pay full price for.

Habs will likely retain 50% bringing his prorated cap hit down to $1.75M. And if we are in talks with a team that has zero cap space or close to it, we can take a cap dump back (pending UFA as well) but if that cap dump extends past this season and beyond, the futures return needs to be evaluated further.

 

[Habs Halifax]

OP price is asinine

A B+ prospect is a top 15 pick in value

And on top of it you want an additional 2 second round picks ...

This all for a 4-5 defense that is on ice for more goals against over the last 3 years than Tyson "no defense" Barrie

My value for Big Ben .. still stands at a 2nd and a B prospect.. my opinion of course...

A B+ prospect is top 15 in value? Who you trying to fool with your asinine narrative? . Not sure what he exactly returns but that statement is foolish. Exaggeration is a poor way to justify your opinion

He's more than a good 4-5 D man. That's who he was when he left the Jets. A few years ago now and he's matured beyond that.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I'd consider it.... Not moving the first + A-Prospect... in a Chiarot deal; should atleast get discussion going.

2nd + 3rd + Hirvonen would be a counter... think Roni is on the higher side of B-Prospect. (But I'm a homer)

 

[Rude Dog]

Again, we get it. Beeing a Leafs fan we understand that the thing you guys are thriving for are soft players who disappear come playoffs time. So we're cool!

nope. Not that at all. Just don’t think he is very good. Would much prefer Edmundson if he were healthy. Someone will overpay for Ben. Hoping Dubas learnt from Foligno groess overpay and won’t get burnt again.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Careful. You’ll get ignored for showing the data to back that up.

That would be such a loss. Id be crushed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'd consider it.... Not moving the first + A-Prospect... in a Chiarot deal; should atleast get discussion going.

2nd + 3rd + Hirvonen would be a counter... think Roni is on the higher side of B-Prospect. (But I'm a homer)

I think you're not wrong on Hirvonen. I would consider him a B or B+ for sure. This is the type of return I think the Habs get in the end. Others can go pound sand with their devalue narratives. And I kind of agree that he won't return a 1st. It's possible but very low probability. Savard trade last year is an anomaly.

Leafs know fully well the impact Chiarot provides in the last playoffs. He's a warrior type and his skating is very good for a big man. He's the type you want to play with vs against. Last thing the Leafs want is for Tampa or the Panthers to acquire him IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

nope. Not that at all. Just don’t think he is very good. Would much prefer Edmundson if he were healthy. Someone will overpay for Ben. Hoping Dubas learnt from Foligno groess overpay and won’t get burnt again.

Edmundson is finally playing with full contact now. In terms of Foligno, I think his skating was the problem. Couldn't keep up with the fast place of play the Leafs want to play. Same with Thornton and Ritchie this year. Chiarot at least skates very well for a big man. Not going to force him on your either.

One thing I will say with Edmundson is he can play both sides which I'm sure would be of value to the Leafs. Not sure the Habs want to trade him cause we can get vet value from him with 2 more years in term after this year.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I think your not wrong on Hirvonen. I would consider him a B or B+ for sure. This is the type of return I think the Habs get in the end. Others can go pound sand with their devalue narratives. And I kind of agree that he won't return a 1st. It's possible but very low probability. Savard trade last year is an anomaly.

Leafs know fully well the impact Chiarot provides in the last playoffs. He's a warrior type and his skating is very good for a big man. He's the type you want to play with vs against. Last thing the Leafs want is for Tampa or the Panthers to acquire him IMO.

Pumping his value aside (it's tough as a seller, i know) ...how do you actually see Chiarot as a rental, on a team like Toronto? (Assume you don't care, hope he fails haha ) but does he actually seem like a good partner for a guy like Sandin?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Pumping his value aside (it's tough as a seller, i know) ...how do you actually see Chiarot as a rental, on a team like Toronto? (Assume you don't care, hope he fails haha ) but does he actually seem like a good partner for a guy like Sandin?

It depends on who is more comfortable playing RD (Muzzin or Chiarot). If one of them is comfortable, I can see that pairing very similar to the Chiarot/Weber pairing where they can really force the play to the outside and take a lot of D zone faceoffs. Nobody is going to have a good time along the walls and in front of the next with those two IMO.

Who's he playing with? Sit Sandin, Dermott, and Lilegren? I think the 2nd unit is the best you can ice for the playoffs style of game anyways. Roll with the top 2 pairings a lot and the 3rd pairing mixed in here and there. Only one Right handed shot D though?

Rielly / Brodie
Muzzin / Holl?
Chiarot / Lyubushkin

or

Rielly / Brodie
Muzzin / Chiarot
Sandin / Lyubushkin

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Habs will likely retain 50% bringing his prorated cap hit down to $1.75M. And if we are in talks with a team that has zero cap space or close to it, we can take a cap dump back (pending UFA as well) but if that cap dump extends past this season and beyond, the futures return needs to be evaluated further.

And that's absolutely reasonable. My only point of contention is that the few weeks of retention and maybe taking back a pending UFA cap move means the Habs can demand a huge "service fee" in return. Even some of the non-UFA cap dumps could be an improvement over the Habs current players, even if they don't necessarily fit where they currently are, so they aren't just dead cap space with negative value.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And that's absolutely reasonable. My only point of contention is that the few weeks of retention and maybe taking back a pending UFA cap move means the Habs can demand a huge "service fee" in return. Even some of the non-UFA cap dumps could be an improvement over the Habs current players, even if they don't necessarily fit where they currently are, so they aren't just dead cap space with negative value.

I agree with you and the only added value we would push is if the cap dump extends past this year. Just depends on who that guy is and what is the AAV/term

 

[RC51]

here we go again. "who would be interested in Chiarot for 2 seconds, instead if 1st" I bet 30 teams say yes to that. In fact I bet if the question would be " who would be interested in Chiarot for a 4th at 50% retention all the nhl + the KHL would take it. So if my question is " who would be interest in McDavid for 2 x seconds, " I BET I GET MORE poster to say yes to that , SO I WIN that poster POLL right?

 

[koyvoo]

And I look forward to some OTHER team paying that, whatever it ends up being.

In the 5-6 year run we’ve had of making the playoffs, we haven’t had a defenseman play nearly as good as Chiarot played for them last year. I’m not sure what I’d pay, but if we could get him without giving a 1st and A prospect, I’d be heavily interested. I don’t think NHL GMs are nearly as stupid and definitely don’t have as short memories as HF posters do.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Adds size to a 3rd pair for a contender. His ice time only leaps to the 20s with Montreal.

A contender probably does take this gamble as it leaves their 1st for a larger trade, but I'd be disappointed if my team paid two 2nds or a 1st for Chiarot.

 

[CapSpace]

Best I can give you is a 4th round pick and a cap dump

Sure mate. Sure.

 

[MSSLYNX]

B+ prospect, B, B-, C+. What is this??? Who is the genius behind those grades?
We (think) we know like the top 2 prospects on another team’s roster.
Asking for another team’s B+ prospect without naming him is so weird.
I dont need fancy maths to say McDonagh and Ekholm are ahead of Chiarot.
Some of us are trying really hard in here.

 

[DFF]

The Flames have two 2nds and plenty of B prospects

Personally, I don’t think they need him but Treliving is obsessed with spare dmen so there may be a chance

 

[Beezeral]

Chiarot is a very good #4D man who has proven to be relied on with heavy D zone usage. What does top 2D man have to do with this? If he was a top 2D, he would be worth more. What's your point? Because he is not a top 2D, he is terrible? Very strange comment. Is this your evidence? I think you can do better than that?

I compared Chiarot to many guys and one guy that he falls very close to is R MacDonagh in various areas. Post #34. Go check it out.

Sorry, I don't agree with your "Terrible" narrative. Not my problem you are triggered by that. I'm standing my ground and I just simply disagree with you

One player is providing elite defense, the other isn't.

Got any other comparisons?

 

[Habs Halifax]

One player is providing elite defense, the other isn't.

Got any other comparisons?

Would you care to post the playoff stats as well from last year? Curious to see how the numbers change? The other factor one player is on a contender and the other is not. I think Chiarot's numbers look very good if he was on Tampa. We can't completely ignore that part can we?

I also compared him to other players. Post #77. Be genuine and post both playoffs and regular season for those style of players.

 

[Suave]

People on HF tend to underestimate the price GMs are willing to pay for a steady dman that can play big minutes in playoffs like Chariot can.
Habs will get a 1st+ for him, it's not even a question in my opinion, but I do think Hughes/Gorton would prefer a past 1st rounder (2019-20) since we already have so many picks.

 

[Suave]

One player is providing elite defense, the other isn't.

Got any other comparisons?

One player plays for the best team in the league and the other isn't.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Would you care to post the playoff stats as well from last year? Curious to see how the numbers change? The other factor one player is on a contender and the other is not. I think Chiarot's numbers look very good if he was on Tampa. We can't completely ignore that part can we?

I also compared him to other players. Post #77. Be genuine and post both playoffs and regular season for those style of players.

Goalpost shifting. There was no reason to compare the two. You did it and got destroyed with actual numbers. then the usual "my garbage player would look gook on an elite team" argument comes out.

 

[rangersfansince08]

One player plays for the best team in the league and the other isn't.

Yeah no. Chiarot doesn't become an elite player if traded to Tampa. Did Savard become one last year?