Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

[2-4 Slashin]

Byfield doesn’t go into corners and use his size? Then what’s he doing here?

Right? I see a guy going into the corners and using his body to both protect the puck AND Go get the puck.
He’s 17 and will only get better at doing it. Especially with directive from the teams player development staff.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's makes sense, I'm sorry if my presence came as a threat or even as me saying that LA would pick Stutzle because it really wasn't the case.

I love Stutzle so for me it was about understanding you guys not really seeming up for it.

A lot of fans here like Stutzle and wouldn't have any qualms with the Kings selecting him. We're also annoyed by these Sens fans coming in who think they know more than we do on who the Kings are selecting, when nobody knows who they're leaning towards.

 

[Boud]

It makes for interesting conversation and that's why the outside narrative was so stupid. No one cares that Marco Sturm is German or that AEG has interests in the DEL if the organization likes Byfield more. You can--and many here have--make an argument either way about who's better, who is the better 'fit' (Byfield prototypical center, Stutzle C/W flexibility history), who has the lowest floor/highest ceiling, etc. without inferring there's something wrong with the LA market. It's a little shocking that this forum was something like 70-80% pro-Byfield but obviously that's not how polls really work, it could just be a number of people liked Byfield just a little more. So it got really annoying getting Stutzle crammed down our throat by outsiders telling us how low Byfield's floor was, how flawed he was, and overlooking any Stutzle weakness. It's straightened out a bit, but yep, that's the background.

Personally, I just feel Byfield is can't miss. I know the criticisms and what he has to work on, and I just think the structure we have, the opportunity for him to not have to be THE guy and to learn from Kopitar all will bring out the best in his skillset, and if it all works out where Vilardi/Turcotte hit as well, someone can move to wing (likely Vilardi, wall monster).

But it's funny you point out how good we've had it with strong Cs--we've almost never had elite Ws. We had 2014 playoff Gaborik and Kopitar has had crazy synergy with Brown, Williams, and Ryan Smyth, but no one would mistake those guys for what Stutzle is supposed to be.

Agreed there about Sturm and even Dominik Bokks comments. It really doesn't mean much as even though LA is likely showing interest and interviewing Stutzle they are likely doing the same with Byfield and it just might not be talked about as much.

For me the biggest thing for Byfield that I like a little bit less, and don't take this as a definite cristicism considering I've been vocal about being excstatic at the opportunity of having either of them, is that Byfield plays a north-south type of game and typically it's an harder transition to make because NHL defense is a lot more structured especially in comparison to the OHL where it a total gong show. NHL teams often clog the neutral zone and players are much faster to react on the defensive side. So to take the puck from one end and make a play on the other like Byfield does to generate a big portion of his offense is not that easy in the NHL. Stutzle plays in a league where the play is a lot more structured and mature than Byfield in the OHL. Stutzle plays north-south as well, but his agility and playing style allows him to play the east-west game with ease and he's shown thay in international play as well. He can move easily through traffic and I haven't seen that quite as much with Byfield, probably because he just doesn't nees to do it in the OHL. Like others have said, I have no doubt that Byfield will adjust and will be a great player, I also think and have said previously that he has the chance to become the best player in the draft, ahead of Lafreniere. To me it's just not a given that he will reach that level and he'll need to grow his game to be able to do that at the highest level. He's one of the youngest player in the draft though, and has the physical assets to really move ahead all players in this draft. I understand Stutzle has some things to work on as well, I just think he has less of a transition to make for his game to translate to NHL standards but that's just my personal opinion and have been obviously challenged on that a lot and understandably so as well.

 

[Little Psycho]

It makes for interesting conversation and that's why the outside narrative was so stupid. No one cares that Marco Sturm is German or that AEG has interests in the DEL if the organization likes Byfield more. You can--and many here have--make an argument either way about who's better, who is the better 'fit' (Byfield prototypical center, Stutzle C/W flexibility history), who has the lowest floor/highest ceiling, etc. without inferring there's something wrong with the LA market. It's a little shocking that this forum was something like 70-80% pro-Byfield but obviously that's not how polls really work, it could just be a number of people liked Byfield just a little more. So it got really annoying getting Stutzle crammed down our throat by outsiders telling us how low Byfield's floor was, how flawed he was, and overlooking any Stutzle weakness. It's straightened out a bit, but yep, that's the background.

Personally, I just feel Byfield is can't miss. I know the criticisms and what he has to work on, and I just think the structure we have, the opportunity for him to not have to be THE guy and to learn from Kopitar all will bring out the best in his skillset, and if it all works out where Vilardi/Turcotte hit as well, someone can move to wing (likely Vilardi, wall monster).

But it's funny you point out how good we've had it with strong Cs--we've almost never had elite Ws. We had 2014 playoff Gaborik and Kopitar has had crazy synergy with Brown, Williams, and Ryan Smyth, but no one would mistake those guys for what Stutzle is supposed to be.

Great post.

To add on, we still don't know Vilardi's future because back problems are no joke, so if he doesn't pan out we need another guy ready. I also think he'll be great on the wing, so keeping my fingers crossed for Vilardi.

Poor Brownie had to learn to play on the left side so he could be on Kopitar's line. And Gaborik made me hold my breath everytime he went down on a celly. Penner played with Richards and Carter, and once again those two were centers.

Kings tried to get a top left winger for years but what we found out after the second cup, all they needed was a strong core of centers.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I still haven't got any answer as to why you guys seem to be absolutely digusted at the possibility of taking Stutzle and am still confused to see the turn that this dicsussion took as it was never meant to be as toxic as you're making it right now.

You don't seem to understand that we'd love either player. Stutzle in LA would fit like a glove, especially with our depth at center and our previous relationship with the German league. He's been on our radar for quite some time.

However, what we take issue is the fact that there is a mob of Senator fans in here trying to convince us that we should hold Bob's opinion as the de facto decision on the situation. If you can't comprehend how toxic that approach can be, then you should hit the road, Jack.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Byfield-

High End- Eric Staal

Low End- Jordan Staal

Stutzle-

High End- Zach Parise

Low End- Robbie Schremp

 

[Boud]

You don't seem to understand that we'd love either player. Stutzle in LA would fit like a glove, especially with our depth at center and our previous relationship with the German league. He's been on our radar for quite some time.

However, what we take issue is the fact that there is a mob of Senator fans in here trying to convince us that we should hold Bob's opinion as the de facto decision on the situation. If you can't comprehend how toxic that approach can be, then you should hit the road, Jack.

I haven't really taken part in that discussion my friend, I never said LA will take Stutzle either. You can look through my posts in the last pages, I came in initially asking opinion on Stutzle. I do think Mackenzie is a reputable source, but as I've said he isn't always right either and have never alluded that it was the case in this thread knowing it was clearly a negative sticking point.

I've never tried to convince anyone of anything so I have to say this discussion has been pretty tiring. I'm focusing on what you guys think of Byfield and Stutzle, which to me seems to be the conversation that should be had rather than looking at all the other stuff that's been talked about...

Anyways I'm ready to move on, some other Kings posters have been kind enough and brought more insight on the discussion I was trying to have in the first place and that's all I was looking for. No need to hit the road at all.

Cheers.

 

[KINGS17]

That's makes sense, I'm sorry if my presence came as a threat or even as me saying that LA would pick Stutzle because it really wasn't the case.

I love Stutzle so for me it was about understanding you guys not really seeming up for it.

No problem. Sorry if I am a bit touchy on this subject. As RJ said we have been receiving a little incoming regarding this pick.

The reality is this board favors the Kings picking Byfield by a margin of almost 90% to 10%. That great of margin does indicate our bias toward building from the net out, then down the middle.

Prior to Kopitar, other than Gretzky and Dionne, the Kings never had a legit 1C. Winning the cups with Kopitar/Richards/Stoll down the middle in 2012, then again with Kopitar/Carter/Stoll/Richards in 2014 has us believing we know the formula for success.

Players with Byfield's agility, size and wingspan don't come along very often. I think he is worth taking even if he isn't fully baked just yet.

 

[lumbergh]

Jesus, when is the draft, again?

 

[BigKing]

Jesus, when is the draft, again?

Agreed

 

[lumbergh]

I almost wish we had the third pick, that way we didn't have to stress about who to choose.

I still think it’s possible the Sens blow Blake away with an offer to swap 2 and 3 if they want Byfield real badly. The Kings are in the driver’s seat and might be able to extract some value if they are on the fence with this pick. I still think the Kings just take Byfield and run, but it’s a possibility.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

However, what we take issue is the fact that there is a mob of Senator fans in here trying to convince us that we should hold Bob's opinion as the de facto decision on the situation. If you can't comprehend how toxic that approach can be, then you should hit the road, Jack.

Mob? Toxic? This is sounding very dramatic....maybe I need to the hit the road.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

I almost wish we had the third pick, that way we didn't have to stress about who to choose.

Then it would be between Stützle and Drysdale or someone else. Unless you get the first pick when one player is head and shoulders above everyone else (e.g. McDavid), then there’s always a few options for teams.
And good fodder for sites like this!

 

[funky]

As a Kings fan and after reading scouting reports and watching video I am fascinated with the potential of size, skill and speed with Byfield.

I love that Stutzle brings a total element we lack with the speed and creativity.

there are others like Raymond, Holtz, Drysdale and Rossi that peak my interest but I have an easier time findIng faults in some aspect of there game.

at the end of the day I realize a few things. My opinion means jack shit and that our staff has done a ridiculously good job the last few years identifying talent through both the draft and free agent signings

if there is a reach by the Kings on draft day and the name called is not Lafreniere, Byfield or Stutzle I will be very surprised but not mad. These guys have been lights out lately and I think Yannetti has a very good handle on his scouts and players and I will trust there decision.

Also listening to Yanetti speak over the years I don’t think there is anyone that knows who he’s going to pick right up to the very end.

 

[Flamingo]

You don't seem to understand that we'd love either player. Stutzle in LA would fit like a glove, especially with our depth at center and our previous relationship with the German league. He's been on our radar for quite some time.

However, what we take issue is the fact that there is a mob of Senator fans in here trying to convince us that we should hold Bob's opinion as the de facto decision on the situation. If you can't comprehend how toxic that approach can be, then you should hit the road, Jack.

I don't think anyone from Ottawa is trying to convince you of anything. Just sharing info, and maybe getting a little caught up in defending the worth of a reporter's opinion.

The Senators' options are pretty much determined by the Kings' selection, so we're very tempted to come here to discuss your options. All this assumes the top 3 are Laf, Byfield, and Stutzle.

Here's hoping both our picks turn out.

I'm no scout, so I have absolutely no idea who's the better option. Here's an amateur scout's player reviews. (Amateur as in, he's an amateur as a scout, not a pro scout of amateur players -- amateur amateur scout?)

 

[Stimpythecat]

I think both teams will be getting a very good player. The kings are doing their homework. Whomeever the kings pick will be because Yannetti and crea think it's the BPA.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

I prefer Byfield, I'm good with either, I'm already bored of this

 

[CanadianKingsFan14]

I don't think anyone from Ottawa is trying to convince you of anything. Just sharing info, and maybe getting a little caught up in defending the worth of a reporter's opinion.

The Senators' options are pretty much determined by the Kings' selection, so we're very tempted to come here to discuss your options. All this assumes the top 3 are Laf, Byfield, and Stutzle.

Here's hoping both our picks turn out.

I'm no scout, so I have absolutely no idea who's the better option. Here's an amateur scout's player reviews. (Amateur as in, he's an amateur as a scout, not a pro scout of amateur players -- amateur amateur scout?)

After watching those highlights, I just feel Stutzle stands out a little more than Byfield. He just brings an element of speed skill and creativity that we need/don't have. He reminds me of a young Patrick Kane. I love both players and will be excited for whoever we take. Seeing Stutzle on a line with Vilardi and Kupari would be sick though.

 

[psych3man]

I keep hearing Stutzle is a young Kane. His goal scoring and shot are nothing close to Kane's at the same age. It's Kane's laser shot and accuracy that keeps opponents honest and opens up space for his playmaking. Stutzle has elite skating and maneuvering but nothing close to Kane's shot or goal scoring. Without the shot, NHL opponents will close on him thereby lessening his playmaking effectiveness.

 

[cyclones22]

I keep hearing Stutzle is a young Kane. His goal scoring and shot are nothing close to Kane's at the same age. It's Kane's laser shot and accuracy that keeps opponents honest and opens up space for his playmaking. Stutzle has elite skating and maneuvering but nothing close to Kane's shot or goal scoring. Without the shot, NHL opponents will close on him thereby lessening his playmaking effectiveness.

That's pretty much what scares the hell out of me about him. If he shot close to 10% I'd feel much better about him. You really need to do a lot of projecting on his shot potential if you're taking him at #2. For as great as Stutzle looked with the puck in the WJC, he played big minutes and didn't score a goal. Kane was a ridiculous goal scorer and setup guy in Junior, so let's stop that comparison right now. Maybe Barzal, but Barzal is the fastest skater in the NHL. Stutzle appears to be a great skater, but he's not Barzal on skates.

 

[Peter James Bond III]

Let me add one other insight---Stutzle's low goal scoring numbers and weak shot scare the hell out of me (and I'm sure other Kings fans). We are so sick of players who can't finish, can't puck the puck in the net, the biscuit in the basket, that when we see a big guy like Byfield roar down the ice, deke and then shoot the hell out of the puck and it goes in, we get sexually excited.

Tim Stutzle at 17

2018-19

Jungadler Mannheim U20

DNL U20

21

23

32

55

30

|

Playoffs

5

4

7

11

4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Leon Draisaitl at 17

2011-12

Jungadler Mannheim U18

DNL

35

21

35

56

39

29

|

Playoffs

8

6

6

12

2

7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Drai had 50 goals 2 seasons ago and 43 this past one in 71 games...he had an outside shot at 50 again, with 7 in his final 11 games that were cancelled.
Stutzle's numbers in the same leauge and age as Leon - he destroyed them. Leon went to Prnice Albert the following year and had 21 goals in 64 games.

This whole Stutzle doesn't put the puck in the net or will not have high offensive output, is ludicrous. Personally, I think 3 years from now, it will be
more who is superior, Stutzle or Lafreniere?

The only thing that Byfield has over Stutzle, is size, being 7 months younger (not HUGE) and a better shot.
What Stutzle has over Byfield, is way better edgework (which itself does not lead to better numbers, but sure makes for being elusive and evasion)
superior vision, superior playmaking, a little more intensity, overall better skating, runs a powerplay at a high level and will run his teams' PP in 2 years
from now...I think Byfield will be more a key component on a PP, while Stutzle will run his team's PP. There is a higher level of precision, execution
and 6th sense he has, over Byfield. As far as Byfield's size, he's not physical and not mean. He will absolutely get stronger and better at everything; BUT, so will Stutzle.
It's like the tiger stripes on a kitty cat. Byfield is not a kitty cat, but he's not a tiger either. Will he be demolishing opponents in 3 years?
Maybe. That's awesome, but usually does not factor in a games outcome. Size is great and is a factor for sure. Byfield is an elite prospect for certain.
I just think Stutzle is the better player now and in the future.

This is a good video of highlights of Stutzle and less viewed...he has no problems putting pucks in nets. I've watched every Byfield video
I could find too and wil not put him down at all, in any way. I will be happy with either being King.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And here's Byfield as a 16-year-old against considerably better competition than the German juniors.

 

[King'sPawn]

Whoops, misread

 

[LB]

I keep hearing Stutzle is a young Kane. His goal scoring and shot are nothing close to Kane's at the same age. It's Kane's laser shot and accuracy that keeps opponents honest and opens up space for his playmaking. Stutzle has elite skating and maneuvering but nothing close to Kane's shot or goal scoring. Without the shot, NHL opponents will close on him thereby lessening his playmaking effectiveness.

I see him as more like Matt Barzal based on his style than P. Kane.

 

[Statto]

Thanks for the context and insight, again much appreciate this conversation on the players rather than anything external, that was a very confusing conversation for me at least.

FWIW L.A. scouts and probably most teams like both players because it's simply hard not to like both of them.You guys preferring Byfield is a completely understandable point of view as it seems to be split pretty evenly between both and it comes down to preference and projection. Based on the fact that LA has been succesful in the past with strong centers, it's a completely valid point. Also it might be that Byfield is built more for LA kings hockey.

Bob might have a source in LA but the Kings have ‘X’ number of scouts. So whilst his source may prefer Stützle it is a long way from saying the Kings do (which he didn’t actually say anyway). He then said (I’m paraphrasing because I can’t be bothered looking it up) he thinks the Kings will go for Stützle, I think he concludes that as he sees them as roughly equal and from an organisation standpoint, on the face of it, we need more at wing than center. I think the frustration has come from people overstating Bobs view as being based solely on some very reliable source and that overrides everything else we know.

What we know is that:
- Bob’s LA sources are not his strongest sources, this is just his opinion.
- Dillman and Rosen are much better connected in LA. The both think that the current thinking is Byfield.
- Kings will not factor in position unless it’s a dead heat, the will take BPA. They have been very clear on that.

In terms of why we are so set on Byfield isn’t quite the right question. The majority are for Byfield but there are a few decent posters that strongly prefer Stützle and we’ve had quite a strong debate. We all like Stützle though and I don’t recall anyone saying they’d be unhappy if they drafted him, the strongest thing I’ve seen is people saying they’d initially be disappointed in not drafting Byfield but would quickly get over it. I’m one of those, btw. The reasons I prefer Byfield are:

- He’s NHL ready IMO, but that doesn’t mean another year in the OHL isn’t the best thing for his development.
- He’s got a NHL shot right now.
- He now uses his size effectively and post WJC started to be more aggressive physically. The knocks on him not using his size comes from 18/19 season and were fair comment at the time.
- Strong skater, quick and direct. He’s got all the tools.
- Size alone isn’t enough but his combination of size, skill and power is intoxicating.
- He’s got a great floor and a very high ceiling.
- His age... most of his ‘issues’ (he’s been heavily picked apart like no other prospect) can be resolved as he matures. Like understanding just how powerful he really is and is something he only just got post WJC (direct from his coaches).
- IMO he is a good bet to end up the best player in the draft.

I don’t want to rag on Stützle as he’s a great prospect but I think his risks are understated, what worries me most is:
- His shot, most certainly, is not NHL ready.
- He plays very much on the perimeter and relies on his outstanding skating, he won’t get that space in the NHL and if that part of his game does not translate he is in trouble.
- The DEL is not a good league, especially defensively and many of the top players are ECHL journeymen. It’s not like the SEL where you get a much better idea of how games translate to the NHL and it’s a league that produces many NHL defenders. That’s not to say he won’t make it, but it makes him more of a risk than Byfield IMO.