Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

[KINGS17]

From the Ottawa board:

Please be true. We need Byfield

Trust me, none of the Sens fans posting on the Kings board have an agenda.

 

[BigKing]

There's no doubt that Management likes Stutzle. It would be more of a story if it came out that they don't like him.

Could they be "leaning" towards him at the moment? Sure. This is a big decision that they have an unusual amount of time to think about. I'm not Bobby Mac but I can guarantee that the Kings scouts and management are not 100% unanimous on which guy to take. The hockey world seems split on them so I imagine there is an element of that within the Kings scouting staff.

I want Byfield but the Kings might like the idea of how Stutzle seems to be projecting as a C/W combo like Carter is/was. A little more flexibility. I know it is popular on here to just say "move this prospect to wing" but that isn't always a slam dunk.

I'm just a meathead that still believes in giant, fast and highly skilled centermen dominating the OHL v. a late riser in his draft year playing in a subpar men's league with no good comparables. The idea that Stutzle is the safer pick of the two isn't something I believe: I think Byfield is the safer floor and the higher ceiling.

 

[Lt Dan]

Things i think i believe:

• the LA Kings scouts and organization will ultimately pick the best player (at draft time) at #2OA -- whomever that be;
• I'll be stoked draft day with the pick at #2OA -- as long as it's one of Byfield, Stutzle or Laf (not happening);
• Blake and crew have not decided who they are picking at #2 yet (nor should they imo);
• If a scout (head or not) is giving away some of their 100% true draft boards to a respected writer, then that scout will have a short career with said organization;
• anyone stating a team is picking X player besides NYR is speculating at this point in time (probably on draft day too);
• teams and their scouts will float many misinformation data to writers/etc. for their own gain up until draft pick time -- so take any of this information by writers with a grain of salt (who predicted the CHI, LAK & DET picks last year?);
• I slightly prefer Byfield right now due to age and size -- but I have zero idea who is the best guy to pick and I trust the Kings scouts over my stupid uneducated opinion;
• If the Kings pick Stutzle, it's solely because they think he's the BPA and nothing to do with anything else.

+ everyone should have their own crossbow range


I have my own crossbow range. It's a perfect situation for me.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

From the Ottawa board:



Trust me, none of the Sens fans posting on the Kings board have an agenda.

Hey man, no agenda here. We get who we get. Hope whoever you select turns out to be the same as the player we get. I have nothing against LA.

 

[redcard]

Not sure why everyone is touchy in here. Reasonably, either player could end up being quite a bit better than the other 5 years from now. Anyone's guess who that is. As an Ottawa fan, glad we don't have to make that decision.

Quite frankly, we don't have a very high opinion of the general Sens fan base around here. We had 10 years of the Doughty/Karlsson mud slinging and the complaining and dismissing of Doughty's Norris and multiple "team accomplishments." Add in the whole Canadian arrogance about the sport because you slept with your hockey stick every night as a kid and we slept with our baseball gloves, and the end result is that I've got more Sens fans on my ignore list than Ducks and Sharks fans combined. So there's going to be animosity and skepticism as soon as you guys start showing up on our board, even if you're one of the nice guys who is here to learn about our opinions rather than grace us with your knowledge.

I understand why LAs direction is relevant to the Sens right now. We pick before you, there's a clear impact, but the inverse is not true. The general opinion in Ottawa on the players is (or at least should be) irrelevant to our discussion because it should have no impact on our pick. And yes, I'm sure you're capable of having a discussion without your biases on who you'd like to fall impacting the content of your post but I don't know your post history well enough to support that like I do with all the familiar Kings avatars in this thread.

Its also worth pointing out that this discussion began with an Ottawa fan falling into the troll trap and responding to a poster many of us have on our ignore list. That's not to blame the Ottawa fan who couldn't have known that, its a reoccurring problem here.

No, it’s 10 teams head scouts or guys in charge of their draft boards, he’s answered that before

In LA that's Mark Yannetti.

Every word of Mark Yannetti's interviews get dissected around here. The "local insiders" are all the guys that interview Mark Yannetti and have clear direct access to him. A 10/31 chance that he's one of Bob's guys doesn't supersede the trusted local sources.

 

[Little Psycho]

I had to double check I was on the Kings boards.

 

[Little Psycho]

Quite frankly, we don't have a very high opinion of the general Sens fan base around here. We had 10 years of the Doughty/Karlsson mud slinging and the complaining and dismissing of Doughty's Norris and multiple "team accomplishments." Add in the whole Canadian arrogance about the sport because you slept with your hockey stick every night as a kid and we slept with our baseball gloves, and the end result is that I've got more Sens fans on my ignore list than Ducks and Sharks fans combined. So there's going to be animosity and skepticism as soon as you guys start showing up on our board, even if you're one of the nice guys who is here to learn about our opinions rather than grace us with your knowledge.

I understand why LAs direction is relevant to the Sens right now. We pick before you, there's a clear impact, but the inverse is not true. The general opinion in Ottawa on the players is (or at least should be) irrelevant to our discussion because it should have no impact on our pick. And yes, I'm sure you're capable of having a discussion without your biases on who you'd like to fall impacting the content of your post but I don't know your post history well enough to support that like I do with all the familiar Kings avatars in this thread.

Its also worth pointing out that this discussion began with an Ottawa fan falling into the troll trap and responding to a poster many of us have on our ignore list. That's not to blame the Ottawa fan who couldn't have known that, its a reoccurring problem here.



In LA that's Mark Yannetti.

Every word of Mark Yannetti's interviews get dissected around here. The "local insiders" are all the guys that interview Mark Yannetti and have clear direct access to him. A 10/31 chance that he's one of Bob's guys doesn't supersede the trusted local sources.

Well said.

Edit: just double checked and I don't have a single Ducks fan on my ignore list! Not even a Sharks fans- they are just sad and pathetic, and I don't want to miss their posts.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I had to double check I was on the Kings boards.

Only Bob McKenzie can verify whether or not it is.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

/

Yes, and it been that way for 2 decades, and his list has been the most accurate, every single year, for 2 decades. He has never once ranked players himself, he just gets a consensus ranking from 10 teams at the beginning, midway and end of the year. This year Stutzle was ranked 2nd by 5 teams, and 3rd by 5. Byfield was ranked 2nd by 5 teams, 3rd by 3 teams, and 6th by 2 teams.

Which 10 teams, no idea, likely changes every year, but it was 10 teams head scouts, like it has always been.

do you not remember Bob predicting Brown being traded at he deadline the year we won our first cup? Bob has been wrong before about the kings However Bob is a hockey god when it comes to information. If he says something i would differently pay attention to what he says

 

[Sting]

Quite frankly, we don't have a very high opinion of the general Sens fan base around here. We had 10 years of the Doughty/Karlsson mud slinging and the complaining and dismissing of Doughty's Norris and multiple "team accomplishments." Add in the whole Canadian arrogance about the sport because you slept with your hockey stick every night as a kid and we slept with our baseball gloves, and the end result is that I've got more Sens fans on my ignore list than Ducks and Sharks fans combined. So there's going to be animosity and skepticism as soon as you guys start showing up on our board, even if you're one of the nice guys who is here to learn about our opinions rather than grace us with your knowledge.

That's fair. I think my point was - regardless of if you are a Sens fan or Kings fan, the opinions of either fan base really doesn't matter that much. Ottawa has no influence on the Kings, and I'm sure Ottawa is preparing for choosing one of the two. Historically, its a total crapshoot after #1, even in the top 10. Even if the picks were reversed, as a Sens fan, I'd be well aware of the fact that the player chosen directly after us could easily be better than who we picked.

For reference, I initially leaned towards Stuzle. I have virtually no preference at this point, because while they each have their own individual attributes and traits, nobody knows how they'll pan out. What if Byfield is another Bjugstad and Stutzle is the next Kane? Or Byfield becomes the next Kopitar and Stutzle is the next Zherdev? Here's hoping they both hit their ceiling for our sake.

 

[KINGS17]

How about this then, our insiders John Hoven and Lisa Dillman have the Kings picking Byfield.

 

[tbrown33]

I'm firmly in the Byfield camp, but if it's Stützle then I trust that the Kings did their homework well and picked the right guy.

I think there's something to be said about how much the Kings scouting and analytics departments have improved in recent memory. The still fresh returns on our 2019 draft remain to look very promising, and I don't think that it's a coincidence that it was the first draft with Rob Vollman in the mix.

And with an unprecedented amount of time to prepare for this draft, the Kings will have had so much time to pour through video and analytics that they will know more about incoming prospects than ever before.

So, I'm still hoping it's Byfield, but even if they surprise us and take Raymond (who I honestly think might be on par with Stützle, nevertheless, would be surprised if this happens), I'll be confident in the pick. The resources they have internally are really quite good.

From the Athletic in June, for those who have subs:
Meet the new talents giving the Kings a complete package ahead of the NHL Draft

 

[BondraTime]

/
do you not remember Bob predicting Brown being traded at he deadline the year we won our first cup? Bob has been wrong before about the kings However Bob is a hockey god when it comes to information. If he says something i would differently pay attention to what he says

Bob is definitely wrong about many things, I’ve not said anything otherwise. I’m just stating how his list is developed. His list is always the best predictor, because it’s made from team lists, not his own opinions. There are always deviations as all 31 team lists are different, obviously including you guys.

Whether you take Stutzle or Byfield, makes no difference to me. You guys get a gem either way, and we will take whichever guy is leftover. If you’re media guys think it’s Byfield, I’ll trust them. We have heard differently from the insiders up here, but in actuality makes no difference which way you guys end up going to me.

 

[Boud]

From the Ottawa board:



Trust me, none of the Sens fans posting on the Kings board have an agenda.

If feel like this is somehow directed at me as well considering I came here asking about your views on Stutzle and if you're questionning FormentonForFuture's interest that's fair but you're painting all Sens fans with the same brush. There is legitimately a 50% split between preference of both players as already mentionned. I still haven't got any answer as to why you guys seem to be absolutely digusted at the possibility of taking Stutzle and am still confused to see the turn that this dicsussion took as it was never meant to be as toxic as you're making it right now. It's very bizzare and doesn't seem to be based on anything tangible really since no one has actually brought analysis of either player in the last few pages and are just trying to debate on Mackenzie's credibility and list which is again besides the point of the initial question that was asked.

For reference here are posts from July and prior that I made regarding Stutzle vs Byfield and you'll find plenty of them if you care enough to actually look rather than push your agenda.

I think that's accurate. I prefer Stutzle right now, I think his game is so well rounded that he'll have an immediate impact in the NHL. Byfield could become an absolute beast thought and could end up the best player in the draft so it's a good position to be in for us IMO.

I'd rather Stutzle than Byfield, but at this point it's hard to not be happy with getting one of them. The other pick being a guy like Raymond/Rossi/Perfetti/Drysdale/Sanderson is pretty amazing as well.

I was coming in expecting we wouldn't get a top 3 pick and we did. Detroit after a terrible year landing 4rth is terrible though.

 

[redcard]

That's fair. I think my point was - regardless of if you are a Sens fan or Kings fan, the opinions of either fan base really doesn't matter that much. Ottawa has no influence on the Kings, and I'm sure Ottawa is preparing for choosing one of the two. Historically, its a total crapshoot after #1, even in the top 10. Even if the picks were reversed, as a Sens fan, I'd be well aware of the fact that the player chosen directly after us could easily be better than who we picked.

For reference, I initially leaned towards Stuzle. I have virtually no preference at this point, because while they each have their own individual attributes and traits, nobody knows how they'll pan out. What if Byfield is another Bjugstad and Stutzle is the next Kane? Or Byfield becomes the next Kopitar and Stutzle is the next Zherdev? Here's hoping they both hit their ceiling for our sake.

They don't matter in regards to which picks are made. I can't impact the Kings pick, nor can anyone here, but that's not why we're here.

In the context of this thread, the opinions of other Kings posters that I am familiar with from their longstanding post history here on this board, matter to me, that's why we're here. If we want neutral perspective, we know where to find it.

Its kind of like when you're at a restaurant having a fun BS conversation with your friends and people from another table keep interjecting. You don't mind it from time to time, except in this instance there's been an awful lot of animosity between people at my table and people at your table over the years. Being completely honest, if it was Winnipeg that had the 3rd pick and you were all from Manitoba it probably wouldn't be as abrasive here.

 

[psych3man]

My opinion for the overwhelming love for Byfield is Kings fans' experience that big centers and deep excellence at the center position brought us two Cups. Kopitar, Carter, Stoll, Richards.
We see Kopitar, Byfield, Villardi, Turcotte/Madden/Kupari/whomever as the next great hope for repeated success.

 

[Boud]

My opinion for the overwhelming love for Byfield is Kings fans' experience that big centers and deep excellence at the center position brought us two Cups. Kopitar, Carter, Stoll, Richards.
We see Kopitar, Byfield, Villardi, Turcotte/Madden/Kupari/whomever as the next great hope for repeated success.

Thanks for the insight, honestly very appreciated.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Why are Kings fans so upset about that rumour though?!

I'm a bit confused considering Stutzle is an electrifying player and gamebreaker. Even to a point where a lot of Sens fans would rather have Stutzle than Byfield. Bottom line, Ottawa will take whoever's left but two great players here.

Not sure why everyone is touchy in here. Reasonably, either player could end up being quite a bit better than the other 5 years from now. Anyone's guess who that is. As an Ottawa fan, glad we don't have to make that decision.

Because it's not about the rumor itself. I'd be relatively madder than most if we took Stutzle because I'm Byfield ride or die, but I'd still trust our scouting dept that they knew what they were doing and just bite my tongue and enjoy what's likely to be a magnificent player.

It's about one random bullshit reporter and some looney podcast citing random anonymous sources and every sort of German connection conspiracy theory under the sun to connect the dots and make it essentially a foregone conclusion so a few obnoxious sens fans can go "enjoy Stutzle guys, we'll sure enjoy Byfield" while telling us our org is dumb for not even interviewing Byfield before the draft and that our local reporters are bunk. That what our guys batting .900 on info say vs. what some yahoo whose only connection to the Kings has been guaranteeing Sam Gagner was being traded here says.

In short, it's a total dismissal of our market insiders, insults to the organization itself, and the inference that we're just fans that don't know any better. It didn't originate in here--it started in the Byfield thread and migrated to the Stutzle thread--but it's sure carried over here a bit (not with you two in particular obviously). That's why it's touchy. You guys are here to chat and it's all good, but if there's a little bit of resistance, that's why. As a pretty hardcore fan I get pretty sick of being told by people who pay attention to the Kings once every three years what our org's needs are and why we're dumb for thinking otherwise.

 

[kilowatt]

I almost wish we had the third pick, that way we didn't have to stress about who to choose.

 

[Little Psycho]

My opinion for the overwhelming love for Byfield is Kings fans' experience that big centers and deep excellence at the center position brought us two Cups. Kopitar, Carter, Stoll, Richards.
We see Kopitar, Byfield, Villardi, Turcotte/Madden/Kupari/whomever as the next great hope for repeated success.

That's the way I see it. We were successful dressing up a bunch of centers during the cup runs. I think we had about 6 centers in each playoff game. Kings know how to handle centers and put them to wing if needed.

 

[Boud]

Because it's not about the rumor itself. I'd be relatively madder than most if we took Stutzle because I'm Byfield ride or die, but I'd still trust our scouting dept that they knew what they were doing and just bite my tongue and enjoy what's likely to be a magnificent player.

It's about one random bullshit reporter and some looney podcast citing random anonymous sources and every sort of German connection conspiracy theory under the sun to connect the dots and make it essentially a foregone conclusion so a few obnoxious sens fans can go "enjoy Stutzle guys, we'll sure enjoy Byfield" while telling us our org is dumb for not even interviewing Byfield before the draft and that our local reporters are bunk. That what our guys batting .900 on info say vs. what some yahoo whose only connection to the Kings has been guaranteeing Sam Gagner was being traded here says.

In short, it's a total dismissal of our market insiders, insults to the organization itself, and the inference that we're just fans that don't know any better. It didn't originate in here--it started in the Byfield thread and migrated to the Stutzle thread--but it's sure carried over here a bit (not with you two in particular obviously). That's why it's touchy. You guys are here to chat and it's all good, but if there's a little bit of resistance, that's why. As a pretty hardcore fan I get pretty sick of being told by people who pay attention to the Kings once every three years what our org's needs are and why we're dumb for thinking otherwise.

Thanks for the context and insight, again much appreciate this conversation on the players rather than anything external, that was a very confusing conversation for me at least.

FWIW L.A. scouts and probably most teams like both players because it's simply hard not to like both of them.You guys preferring Byfield is a completely understandable point of view as it seems to be split pretty evenly between both and it comes down to preference and projection. Based on the fact that LA has been succesful in the past with strong centers, it's a completely valid point. Also it might be that Byfield is built more for LA kings hockey.

 

[KINGS17]

If feel like this is somehow directed at me as well considering I came here asking about your views on Stutzle and if you're questionning FormentonForFuture's interest that's fair but you're painting all Sens fans with the same brush. There is legitimately a 50% split between preference of both players as already mentionned. I still haven't got any answer as to why you guys seem to be absolutely digusted at the possibility of taking Stutzle and am still confused to see the turn that this dicsussion took as it was never meant to be as toxic as you're making it right now. It's very bizzare and doesn't seem to be based on anything tangible really since no one has actually brought analysis of either player in the last few pages and are just trying to debate on Mackenzie's credibility and list which is again besides the point of the initial question that was asked.

For reference here are posts from July and prior that I made regarding Stutzle vs Byfield and you'll find plenty of them if you care enough to actually look rather than push your agenda.

Not disgusted with Stutzle at all. I just believe Byfield has a much higher ceiling as a 1C.

 

[psych3man]

Let me add one other insight---Stutzle's low goal scoring numbers and weak shot scare the hell out of me (and I'm sure other Kings fans). We are so sick of players who can't finish, can't puck the puck in the net, the biscuit in the basket, that when we see a big guy like Byfield roar down the ice, deke and then shoot the hell out of the puck and it goes in, we get sexually excited.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Thanks for the context and insight, again much appreciate this conversation on the players rather than anything external, that was a very confusing conversation for me at least.

FWIW L.A. scouts and probably most teams like both players because it's simply hard not to like both of them.You guys preferring Byfield is a completely understandable point of view as it seems to be split pretty evenly between both and it comes down to preference and projection. Based on the fact that LA has been succesful in the past with strong centers, it's a completely valid point. Also it might be that Byfield is built more for LA kings hockey.

It makes for interesting conversation and that's why the outside narrative was so stupid. No one cares that Marco Sturm is German or that AEG has interests in the DEL if the organization likes Byfield more. You can--and many here have--make an argument either way about who's better, who is the better 'fit' (Byfield prototypical center, Stutzle C/W flexibility history), who has the lowest floor/highest ceiling, etc. without inferring there's something wrong with the LA market. It's a little shocking that this forum was something like 70-80% pro-Byfield but obviously that's not how polls really work, it could just be a number of people liked Byfield just a little more. So it got really annoying getting Stutzle crammed down our throat by outsiders telling us how low Byfield's floor was, how flawed he was, and overlooking any Stutzle weakness. It's straightened out a bit, but yep, that's the background.

Personally, I just feel Byfield is can't miss. I know the criticisms and what he has to work on, and I just think the structure we have, the opportunity for him to not have to be THE guy and to learn from Kopitar all will bring out the best in his skillset, and if it all works out where Vilardi/Turcotte hit as well, someone can move to wing (likely Vilardi, wall monster).

But it's funny you point out how good we've had it with strong Cs--we've almost never had elite Ws. We had 2014 playoff Gaborik and Kopitar has had crazy synergy with Brown, Williams, and Ryan Smyth, but no one would mistake those guys for what Stutzle is supposed to be.

 

[Boud]

Not disgusted with Stutzle at all. I just believe Byfield has a much higher ceiling as a 1C.

That's makes sense, I'm sorry if my presence came as a threat or even as me saying that LA would pick Stutzle because it really wasn't the case.

I love Stutzle so for me it was about understanding you guys not really seeming up for it.