He can come play with the Cuda as soon as Sudbury’s season ends.
Confirmed with Link: Zetterlund, Robins, 4th to Ottawa for 2025 2nd, Zack Ostapchuk, Noah Gregor
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Not eligible for the Calder Cup playoffs and have no reason to participate anyway.
hohosaregood
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Jargon
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No no no this is Givani Smith…
Juxtaposer
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I'll take that bet. He doesn't have the defensive habits to play big minutes on an AHL team in the playoffs and the AHL playoffs is not a time when a pro coach is going to let teenagers go through growing pains.
Regular season, sure, if Sudbury is a 1st round exit.
We’ve now ensured that Sudbury makes the memorial cup so we can’t even figure out who wins.
Star Platinum
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That's gonna have to be an awfully large mustache
matt trick
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It's okay, don't love it. I really like Zetterlund the player, and love his attitude. Love the lund bromance.
I was hoping to steal a mid-1st from a lower wild card team like Detroit, Ottawa, CBJ, or Vancouver for Ferraro or Walman, and would have been okay with Zetterlund getting that piece. My idea being if we could get something around 16-20th overall we could get one of the third tier prospects in this draft (the third group after the top 4 and the next 5-7 of Eklund, McQueen, Smith, Frondell, Desnoyers, O'Brien and RHD1). Ideally that would have been enough-perhaps with a trade up- to get Mrtka or Hesnler. A mid to late 2nd is less appetising.
It does seem Ostapchuk (who I can't comment on), not t he second, is the prize. I will say, I've been hoping Grier could acquire a big matchup center for the third line. With Celebrini you don't have to have one, but even with him, I do think it's ideal. If we have a big, mean shutdown center on the third line and Celebrini on the first, it means we can match Smith's line against whoever is the weakest defensively of a teams top 9.
I can see a world where we end up really liking this move in time (in the same way we did with Zetterlund's inclusion for Meier). I've liked the Sharks pro scouting, and I like this profile (21, center, speed, mean), but if Ostapchuk matched Zetterlund you'd be over the moon.
I was hoping to steal a mid-1st from a lower wild card team like Detroit, Ottawa, CBJ, or Vancouver for Ferraro or Walman, and would have been okay with Zetterlund getting that piece. My idea being if we could get something around 16-20th overall we could get one of the third tier prospects in this draft (the third group after the top 4 and the next 5-7 of Eklund, McQueen, Smith, Frondell, Desnoyers, O'Brien and RHD1). Ideally that would have been enough-perhaps with a trade up- to get Mrtka or Hesnler. A mid to late 2nd is less appetising.
It does seem Ostapchuk (who I can't comment on), not t he second, is the prize. I will say, I've been hoping Grier could acquire a big matchup center for the third line. With Celebrini you don't have to have one, but even with him, I do think it's ideal. If we have a big, mean shutdown center on the third line and Celebrini on the first, it means we can match Smith's line against whoever is the weakest defensively of a teams top 9.
I can see a world where we end up really liking this move in time (in the same way we did with Zetterlund's inclusion for Meier). I've liked the Sharks pro scouting, and I like this profile (21, center, speed, mean), but if Ostapchuk matched Zetterlund you'd be over the moon.
jbeck5
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Sharks fans are selling ostapchuk wayyy too short.
He's much more valuable than the 2nd round pick.
Why is everyone focusing on his stats when his game is all about shutting down the other team and being physical.
He may never hit 30 points in the NHL, but the odds that he's in your top 3 forwards defensively is big. The odds that he's in your top 3 forwards on the PK is big. The odds that he's in your top 3 forwards for physicality is big.
This guy doesn't cheat for offense. He's the type of guy who in his prime will play at 6'4, 225, can skate with anyone, while being one of the best defensive forwards on the ice. Will be on your top PK. Will win more than 50% of the draws. Will fight anyone on the other team and likely win. He's the guy you can put on the ice against the other teams best players and has the speed, strength, and defensive ability to neutralize the other teams best players...
And you guys are worried that he won't score 40-50-60 points? If he did, he would be like a Patrice Bergeron in a power forwards body. Would be worth 12 million a year and wouldn't be bad for zetterlund.
He's much more valuable than the 2nd round pick.
Why is everyone focusing on his stats when his game is all about shutting down the other team and being physical.
He may never hit 30 points in the NHL, but the odds that he's in your top 3 forwards defensively is big. The odds that he's in your top 3 forwards on the PK is big. The odds that he's in your top 3 forwards for physicality is big.
This guy doesn't cheat for offense. He's the type of guy who in his prime will play at 6'4, 225, can skate with anyone, while being one of the best defensive forwards on the ice. Will be on your top PK. Will win more than 50% of the draws. Will fight anyone on the other team and likely win. He's the guy you can put on the ice against the other teams best players and has the speed, strength, and defensive ability to neutralize the other teams best players...
And you guys are worried that he won't score 40-50-60 points? If he did, he would be like a Patrice Bergeron in a power forwards body. Would be worth 12 million a year and wouldn't be bad for zetterlund.
STL Shark
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Catching up on this thread so apologies if any of this is duplicative (lots of pages).
There was no way that Ostapchuk could have reasonably been expected to produce offense in Ottawa even if he was capable of it when he was stapled to Noah Gregor for 180 of his 230 ES minutes.
If we think that Mack/Will are going to form an elite 1/2 punch on the top 2 lines, I think you can aim for the more defensive stopper "checking line" style in the bottom 6 to an extent. If we're looking to reach the ~290 goals for mark (that is top ~5ish in the league), a breakdown that is something like 110, 80, 40, 20 for the top 4 lines and then figure ~40ish from the backend gets you there.
That would mean Ostapchuk needs to realistically contribute something like 25-30 points, which should be doable if given solid linemates. Think a 3rd line featuring Ostapchuk-Graf and a physical LW could be really nice as we progress. Love Jux's idea from another thread of targeting Cuylle from NYR with their cap woes this summer. Would be a dynamic 3rd line to go Cuylle-Ostapchuk-Graf.
There was no way that Ostapchuk could have reasonably been expected to produce offense in Ottawa even if he was capable of it when he was stapled to Noah Gregor for 180 of his 230 ES minutes.
If we think that Mack/Will are going to form an elite 1/2 punch on the top 2 lines, I think you can aim for the more defensive stopper "checking line" style in the bottom 6 to an extent. If we're looking to reach the ~290 goals for mark (that is top ~5ish in the league), a breakdown that is something like 110, 80, 40, 20 for the top 4 lines and then figure ~40ish from the backend gets you there.
That would mean Ostapchuk needs to realistically contribute something like 25-30 points, which should be doable if given solid linemates. Think a 3rd line featuring Ostapchuk-Graf and a physical LW could be really nice as we progress. Love Jux's idea from another thread of targeting Cuylle from NYR with their cap woes this summer. Would be a dynamic 3rd line to go Cuylle-Ostapchuk-Graf.
Juxtaposer
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Oh brother, he may never hit 30 points but we're underrating him?
Jargon
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Surely if he has good linemates, is a 3C staple and is as big, strong, fast and smart as people say, he’ll hit 30? I mean, just by virtue of pucks bouncing off of him and in.
I’m also guessing he’s gonna be the screener on the PP2.
I’m also guessing he’s gonna be the screener on the PP2.
I think its just way to early to have any judgements on Ostapchuk. Grier took a swing on a kid. its actually, arguably, the first trade with any real risk that Grier has done. If Ostapchuk fails, and zetterlund goes for 30-30, we can finally begin to hold Grier accountable.
Just curious, what on ice results over the next 5 years would be proof of grier's competence to you guys? To me, hes lowered expectations well for next year so bottom 5, but not dead last would be improvement to me. However, if we are not at least talking about playoffs still alive in January of '26-'27 season, I would be disappointed. I am not saying we make it, but at least some intrigue and excitement. Then, in '27-'28, I expect PO's, and a cup by around 2030ish.
What would you guys say is reasonable expectations for wins?
BTW, I ask because I am growing weary of praising Greer for captaining historically bad teams, trading away all talent, getting lottery lucky, etc. I respect the process, and I think grier has doe reasonably well, but at some point, he will need to be judged by actual WINS. When does that happen?
Just curious, what on ice results over the next 5 years would be proof of grier's competence to you guys? To me, hes lowered expectations well for next year so bottom 5, but not dead last would be improvement to me. However, if we are not at least talking about playoffs still alive in January of '26-'27 season, I would be disappointed. I am not saying we make it, but at least some intrigue and excitement. Then, in '27-'28, I expect PO's, and a cup by around 2030ish.
What would you guys say is reasonable expectations for wins?
BTW, I ask because I am growing weary of praising Greer for captaining historically bad teams, trading away all talent, getting lottery lucky, etc. I respect the process, and I think grier has doe reasonably well, but at some point, he will need to be judged by actual WINS. When does that happen?
I have no idea is Ostapchuk is the right guy but I do like the idea of a big, mean, shut down 3C. We haven’t have a great shut down 3C since Ricci. For years, the Sharks would use Couture against the other team’s best players leaving Jumbo free to focus more on offense. With Celibrini and Smith as our top centers, Macklin is going to have to play the tough minutes. Having a shut down 3rd line will free Celibrini to generate more goals 5 on 5. It could be great if it works.
Welcome to SAP Conner. You get Zack in your face the whole game.
Welcome to SAP Conner. You get Zack in your face the whole game.
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It's a big bet by Grier, but Ricci was 4OA and had a much bigger pedigree and immediate scoring impact in the NHL. What a legend. If we could get a Ricci (or an Andrew Ladd or Jordan Staal) this year in the draft (since we're not likely to get Schaefer), that would be the real solution and Ostapchuk becomes the highly capable 4C. Or, he hits a ceiling and is a big piece like peak Goodrow. We'll see.
If I were the Sharks, I'd be trying Kovalenko-Ostapchuk-Graf now to see how they play together and if it has any sort of potential. All three of those guys are at that 3rd line level with a decent mix of skills that could work.
jarr92
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The real prize was clearly Noah Gregor
jbeck5
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He also, may.
And yes, because you're not looking at the defensive side of things.
Someone like Chris Kelly, but with size and physicality is his likely projection.
Chris Kelly did hit over 30 with Ottawa, but barely.
His point totals for Ottawa:
30
38
30
23
32
23
That's a reasonable offensive projection for him in his prime.
But Kelly was a leader, a top defensive player you could put up against the other teams stars. Ostapchuk has this, plus being a top 5% percentile for physicality and strength.
Another one who does have the size and physicality would be a Nick Paul. Once Paul made the sens, he put up seasons of
20
20
18
Yet he was great defensively. Great leader. Etc.
Those guys have value even if they aren't scoring 40-50-60 points.
Having someone you can deploy against the games best to neutralize them and be a force on the PK and on the forecheck and provide a physical presence is not useless. You aren't looking at him for offense. You're looking at him to neutralize the best.
Basically, when Ottawa was good, someone like Fisher could get zero points, but be the most important player in a game, because he literally shadowed the other teams #1 center, and could skate with anyone in the league and outmuscle them and had the defensive smarts to smother the other players creativity. That's ostapchuk in his prime. Not fishers offense, but fishers defensive game and physicality....and that alone is super valuable in a playoff series, for example.
Peca might have nowhere near yashins offense, but who do you think was more effective in a playoff series? The Uber talented Hart finalist Yashin, or the super defensive physical center in peca?
You have to put some value in having a top 5 defensive forward out of 24 forwards in a given game...and also a top 5 physical forward out of 24 in any given game. He won't be a top 6 forward, but you could have potentially the most useful defensive player in the bottom 6. That's gotta have value.
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Juxtaposer
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All very reasonable. All things that Sharks fans have also said. Don't see how we're "underrating" him.
Our point is that unless Ostapchuk becomes a real top-tier 3C, then this trade is bad for us. And I believe that 3C's in today's NHL should comfortably be 35 point players.
jbeck5
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Because a great defensive and great physical center with size who can skate in many ways might be more valuable than a middle 6 winger...heck, even a bonafide second line winger.
There are many times where Ottawa had a third liner center that I would take over our second line wingers.
Heck, right now. I would take pinto over batherson, but batherson is on a higher line and getting more offense...yet I think most sens fans are keeping pinto going forward over batherson if a choice had to be made.
Zetterlund very well could be that guy that puts up 40-50 on a non playoff team, but puts up 30-40 on a third line on a playoff team.
Let alone the extras going to San Jose.
In terms of 3C prospects, he's as good as they come. I would have someone like pinto higher, but that's because I have pinto as a future potential 2C but ostapchuk doesn't have that offensive upside...but you could argue almost as good defensively as pinto(who's won defensive awards) but much better physically.
Juxtaposer
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I don't really see what you're arguing right now. If Ostapchuk can be a regular 35 point player in the NHL, on top of his solid defense and good physical attributes, then I'd agree that he's more valuable than Zetterlund. I also do value a great 3C over a decent 2W.
It just doesn't sound like he has the offensive juice to be a regular 35 point center. And you yourself, who seem to be pretty high on Ostapchuk, said the same thing. Ergo, I question his ability to become that playoff-caliber 3C that we need him to be.
jbeck5
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I think you're under valuing the defensive ability that is his game.
Even at 20 pts per 80 games, if he's one of the most defensive forwards and most physical forwards in any game, he can be more valuable than random #6 forward on your team who is average defensively and average physicality.
I would take a guy who out of 24 forwards in a game, ranks #3 best defensive and #2 most physical even if he's #20 in offense, compared to someone who's like #12 in all 3.
My point is that even without much offense, he's very valuable... Either you could be underestimating his defensive ability or under valuing the value of having a top defensive center brings.
Ottawa is a top 10 team this year in GA, and even he stood out as being much better defensively than most forwards on the team in his rookie year. Showing defensive abilities most players will never be able to do using his smarts and size to seperate opposition from the puck like many can't.
If you go read some GDTs of his first many games, you'll see how impressed posters were.
That's why I think some thinking he's a nothing player or a dime a dozen 4th liner are wayyyy under valuing him. He has many attributes that aren't replacement level that are hard to replace.
Where do you find a huge physical young player with leadership qualities and defensive smarts who can skate? They all get locked up and made part of a teams bottom 6 core.
Also, I'm not actually that high on ostapchuk. Pretty average. I've criticized his offense too. I'm not sticking up because I like the player. I just was reading your post and thought people were under valuing him by calling him a "nothing player" or "dime a dozen player" or "just a 4th liner" etc. I was trying to write the wrong, that his projection is that of a 3C. If all goes right, he's an amazing 3C. If all goes wrong, he's an average 4C....because that's what he is now if he never improves.
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Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
If he's truly so good defensively and physically that he's pushing play as a 20 point player, that's a different story, sure. I can't claim to be an expert on Ostapchuk so I'll simply say that I hope you are quite right.
