Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

[King'sPawn]

I don’t think Draisaitl was 17 when he was playing in Germany, he played 2 years in PA before being drafted. That’s his 16 year old season your looking at.

Thank you. There was something off about the comparison and I couldn't tell what it was

 

[Steve Zissou]

To be clear, if the Kings draft Stutzle, I'll be disappointed for a few minutes, but I trust Yannetti and the scouts and will be all in on him from that point on.

Concur. We are armchair GM's sitting around watching highlight videos for months on end to form the basis of our draft selections.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Concur. We are armchair GM's sitting around watching highlight videos for months on end to form the basis of our draft selections.

It's especially bad this year because the draft is usually like ~70 days after the regular season ends, but this year, the Kings last game was ~200 days from the draft.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's especially bad this year because the draft is usually like ~70 days after the regular season ends, but this year, the Kings last game was ~200 days from the draft.

 

[Steve Zissou]

It's especially bad this year because the draft is usually like ~70 days after the regular season ends, but this year, the Kings last game was ~200 days from the draft.

To our advantage (and the scouts) we may get to see more players on the ice and if they have/have not progressed until the draft.

 

[tbrown33]

this may be kind of a dumb analogy, but I see the opportunity of drafting Byfield to join Kopitar kinda like adding Tim Duncan to a roster with David Robinson.

I like them as a 1-2 punch down the middle, but also imagine them like a twin tower combo on power plays and at the end of games. Just sounds like it’d be fun to watch and defenses would have a really tough time with them. Put in a guy with a motor like Turcotte on the wing in those scenarios. So many possibilities really.

 

[Legionnaire]

this may be kind of a dumb analogy, but I see the opportunity of drafting Byfield to join Kopitar kinda like adding Tim Duncan to a roster with David Robinson.

I like them as a 1-2 punch down the middle, but also imagine them like a twin tower combo on power plays and at the end of games. Just sounds like it’d be fun to watch and defenses would have a really tough time with them. Put in a guy with a motor like Turcotte on the wing in those scenarios. So many possibilities really.

That's actually a great analogy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kopitar is pretty much The Big Fundamental.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Watching this, Cosentino made a better argument for them to pick Byfield than Stützle (which is what he actually said he thought they would do), talking about how Byfield is so much younger, but then using the World Juniors as reason they should pick Stützle, which is kind of a contradiction. I cannot hold underperforming in a tournament where almost exclusively older players excel against a player who is young.

 

[cyclones22]

Watching this, Cosentino made a better argument for them to pick Byfield than Stützle (which is what he actually said he thought they would do), talking about how Byfield is so much younger, but then using the World Juniors as reason they should pick Stützle, which is kind of a contradiction. I cannot hold underperforming in a tournament where almost exclusively older players excel against a player who is young.

I think what happens in these mocks as well is they factor in that the Kings "already are stocked at C", so they slot a wing in here all things being equal. For what it's worth, Jim Fox picks Byfield. And if people don't think he's clued in, they're mistaken. He knew the Kings were going to select Turcotte well ahead of time. At the draft party as soon as Turcotte was selected, he reported on air that Turcotte had been the target for weeks and told a story detailing it. I think Jim is genuine and I find it highly doubtful he made that up in the 2 minutes after the Kings selection, but I guess anything is possible. At the very least, I'm going to believe he's got the pulse of what's happening in LA.

Q&A with Kings TV Analyst Jim Fox: Part 1 - LA Kings Insider this is a good part 1 of an interview, by the way

"Jim Fox answers questions from fans here at LA Kings Insider. This is the first in a multi-part series. Have a question for a future edition? Follow him on Twitter @JimFox19.

Q: Byfield or Stutzle?????
A: Everything I read and everyone I talk to puts both players as potential star NHLer’s and very close when you compare each player side-by-side. Having said that, here are some of the things that stand out: Byfield has the rare combination of top end speed with size and power. Byfield’s acceleration is impressive for a player his size, but overall, Stutzle’s agility, quick feet and quick hands, make him the more dangerous 1 on 1 player. Stutzle’s creativity, puck possession and ability to open up passing and shooting lanes, all stem from his footwork. As far as shooting, Stutzle needs to improve in this area and shooting is an area I believe can be improved if prioritized, as compared to skating, where I believe the chances to improve dramatically are very difficult to accomplish. While Byfield, not considered to be a sniper, has a solid combination of power and accuracy with his shot, he likes to shoot off-the-rush and has an effective outside-inside move to get shots off. Hockey sense is a very difficult area to analyze, especially without watching any player in multiple games and in multiple game situations. For Stutzle, you must start with his 1 on 1 danger assets, which go a long way to buying himself time and space to “make things happen,” with vision and sense. Byfield seems to possess and solid understanding of when to shot or when to pass.
As you can tell, these players are extremely close in many areas and this will be a difficult choice. If I had to break the tie (and I could go into this in depth, but it would take a couple of hours), this is how I break that tie. Although both players can play center, it appears that Byfield will be the more “natural” NHL center. Stutzle seems to possess the more dangerous 1 on 1 skill, but here is where I go a little deeper. I believe 1 on 1 skill superiority usually shrinks a touch when moving for a lower level to the NHL level, so until I see it at the NHL level, the 1 on 1 skill advantage is neutralized a bit. Bottom line, the very rare combination of size with a high skating skill gives Byfield the advantage to me."

 

[KopitarFAN]

Hoven addressed what Bob McKenzie said about Stützle potentially going 2nd in the first 5 minutes.

 

[kilowatt]

I won’t be upset in any way if we choose Stützle, I just think I’ve educated myself to the best of my abilities and would prefer Byfield. If we choose Stützle, that just goes to show that the people in charge know a lot more than I do, which wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest!

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Watching this, Cosentino made a better argument for them to pick Byfield than Stützle (which is what he actually said he thought they would do), talking about how Byfield is so much younger, but then using the World Juniors as reason they should pick Stützle, which is kind of a contradiction. I cannot hold underperforming in a tournament where almost exclusively older players excel against a player who is young.

I don't think that it's a question of underperforming against older players. His body and his style is developed. It allows us to project what we cannot see. How a player handles pressure. In my mind it raises questions as to if he can dominate against guys that are as big or as fast as him. He looked uncomfortable when he had a defender blanketed on him. Fumbled pucks, forced passes and slow reads. Personally, I get nervous when a guy has been a head larger and a step faster than his competition their whole life.

I was and am a huge Byfield fan. The WJC just triggered my own personal fears. Rational or not.

 

[Jericho111091]

The thing that I like about Stutzle is also part of what worries me about him. We havent had somebody with that shifty creativity since palffy I guess, which also means who do we have to help develop that at the next level?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't think that it's a question of underperforming against older players. His body and his style is developed. It allows us to project what we cannot see. How a player handles pressure. In my mind it raises questions as to if he can dominate against guys that are as big or as fast as him. He looked uncomfortable when he had a defender blanketed on him. Fumbled pucks, forced passes and slow reads. Personally, I get nervous when a guy has been a head larger and a step faster than his competition their whole life.

I was and am a huge Byfield fan. The WJC just triggered my own personal fears. Rational or not.

Some kid who went first overall in 2013 only had a single assist in 6 games at the WJC. Do you think he should’ve gone later based on those numbers?

 

[cyclones22]

Some kid who went first overall in 2013 only had a single assist in 6 games at the WJC. Do you think he should’ve gone later based on those numbers?

Also a late birthday, September 1st. Byfield would be 12 days older than him if they were born the same year.

 

[Peter James Bond III]

I think what happens in these mocks as well is they factor in that the Kings "already are stocked at C", so they slot a wing in here all things being equal. For what it's worth, Jim Fox picks Byfield. And if people don't think he's clued in, they're mistaken. He knew the Kings were going to select Turcotte well ahead of time. At the draft party as soon as Turcotte was selected, he reported on air that Turcotte had been the target for weeks and told a story detailing it. I think Jim is genuine and I find it highly doubtful he made that up in the 2 minutes after the Kings selection, but I guess anything is possible. At the very least, I'm going to believe he's got the pulse of what's happening in LA.

Q&A with Kings TV Analyst Jim Fox: Part 1 - LA Kings Insider this is a good part 1 of an interview, by the way

"Jim Fox answers questions from fans here at LA Kings Insider. This is the first in a multi-part series. Have a question for a future edition? Follow him on Twitter @JimFox19.

Q: Byfield or Stutzle?????
A: Everything I read and everyone I talk to puts both players as potential star NHLer’s and very close when you compare each player side-by-side. Having said that, here are some of the things that stand out: Byfield has the rare combination of top end speed with size and power. Byfield’s acceleration is impressive for a player his size, but overall, Stutzle’s agility, quick feet and quick hands, make him the more dangerous 1 on 1 player. Stutzle’s creativity, puck possession and ability to open up passing and shooting lanes, all stem from his footwork. As far as shooting, Stutzle needs to improve in this area and shooting is an area I believe can be improved if prioritized, as compared to skating, where I believe the chances to improve dramatically are very difficult to accomplish. While Byfield, not considered to be a sniper, has a solid combination of power and accuracy with his shot, he likes to shoot off-the-rush and has an effective outside-inside move to get shots off. Hockey sense is a very difficult area to analyze, especially without watching any player in multiple games and in multiple game situations. For Stutzle, you must start with his 1 on 1 danger assets, which go a long way to buying himself time and space to “make things happen,” with vision and sense. Byfield seems to possess and solid understanding of when to shot or when to pass.
As you can tell, these players are extremely close in many areas and this will be a difficult choice. If I had to break the tie (and I could go into this in depth, but it would take a couple of hours), this is how I break that tie. Although both players can play center, it appears that Byfield will be the more “natural” NHL center. Stutzle seems to possess the more dangerous 1 on 1 skill, but here is where I go a little deeper. I believe 1 on 1 skill superiority usually shrinks a touch when moving for a lower level to the NHL level, so until I see it at the NHL level, the 1 on 1 skill advantage is neutralized a bit. Bottom line, the very rare combination of size with a high skating skill gives Byfield the advantage to me."

I disagree. Stutzle's 1 on 1 skills will not diminish at the next level. Of course NHL defensemen are better, bigger, stronger and faster than DEL players, but also applies to OHL.
Stutzle is an elite skater, edges wise and in cuts....he will adjust and when he cannot do what he does in the DEL, he will make adjustments and get off a clean pass...he has the
vision to do so. You could say Patrick Kane faced the same things, when going to the NHL...he still excelled and was elite at these things in the NHL, pretty quickly.

If anything, it's the opposite with Byfield. When making it to the NHL, the bigger, stronger, faster, better NHL defensemen will be able to neutralize his straight away speed,
more than they will be able to neutralize Stutzle. Of course he wil lgain more size and strength and that will go a long way to being hard to stop in front of the net and
on the boards...I can see that. I am NOT anti-Byfield. Als0 - SERIOUSLY - if he was measured as 6'4"215 at 17....he's probably growing still and turning 18 this month.
It is not out of the realm he grows 3 more inches and puts on 30 lbs...they say he's a very lanky 215 and can easily put on 25. So, what will he be like, if he actually tops out
at 6'7" 245 ? He probably will be 6'6" 240. But if he grows to 6'7", this is not good for speed and agility. That's where the game is headed. Has there ever been a
dominant forward that big? Since scouts pour over EVERYTHING, down to 'how he adjusted at leaving home at age 14" and crazy being scrutinizing things, how
about if he grows to 6'7" 245? That may not be a good thing.

Sorry about the Stutzle - Drai DEL stats...I did not see their ages and Drai was in the WHL at the same age.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Some very detailed scouting reports posted on the Prospects board. Of note, these rankings have Byfield ranked #2, Marco Rossi #3, and Tim Stutzle at #4.
Scouting Report: Quinton Byfield - Smaht Scouting
Scouting Report: Marco Rossi - Smaht Scouting
Scouting Report: Tim Stützle - Smaht Scouting

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I disagree. Stutzle's 1 on 1 skills will not diminish at the next level. Of course NHL defensemen are better, bigger, stronger and faster than DEL players, but also applies to OHL.
Stutzle is an elite skater, edges wise and in cuts....he will adjust and when he cannot do what he does in the DEL, he will make adjustments and get off a clean pass...he has the
vision to do so. You could say Patrick Kane faced the same things, when going to the NHL...he still excelled and was elite at these things in the NHL, pretty quickly.

If anything, it's the opposite with Byfield. When making it to the NHL, the bigger, stronger, faster, better NHL defensemen will be able to neutralize his straight away speed,
more than they will be able to neutralize Stutzle. Of course he wil lgain more size and strength and that will go a long way to being hard to stop in front of the net and
on the boards...I can see that. I am NOT anti-Byfield. Als0 - SERIOUSLY - if he was measured as 6'4"215 at 17....he's probably growing still and turning 18 this month.
It is not out of the realm he grows 3 more inches and puts on 30 lbs...they say he's a very lanky 215 and can easily put on 25. So, what will he be like, if he actually tops out
at 6'7" 245 ? He probably will be 6'6" 240. But if he grows to 6'7", this is not good for speed and agility. That's where the game is headed. Has there ever been a
dominant forward that big? Since scouts pour over EVERYTHING, down to 'how he adjusted at leaving home at age 14" and crazy being scrutinizing things, how
about if he grows to 6'7" 245? That may not be a good thing.

Sorry about the Stutzle - Drai DEL stats...I did not see their ages and Drai was in the WHL at the same age.

Imagine thinking a guy Byfuglien's size with Byfield's skill is a bad thing. Come on man.

And yes, Blake Wheeler is 6'5" and still a dominant skater. We all know there are physics at play, but you don't avoid drafting a guy because a guy like that hasn't come before. Otherwise, you have to apply that to Stutzle's DEL play as well, as well as Rossi being the arbitrary 5'9.5" instead of 5'10". Guess we'd better pick Raymond after Laf!

 

[Rusty Batch]

I disagree. Stutzle's 1 on 1 skills will not diminish at the next level. Of course NHL defensemen are better, bigger, stronger and faster than DEL players, but also applies to OHL.
Stutzle is an elite skater, edges wise and in cuts....he will adjust and when he cannot do what he does in the DEL, he will make adjustments and get off a clean pass...he has the
vision to do so. You could say Patrick Kane faced the same things, when going to the NHL...he still excelled and was elite at these things in the NHL, pretty quickly.

If anything, it's the opposite with Byfield. When making it to the NHL, the bigger, stronger, faster, better NHL defensemen will be able to neutralize his straight away speed,
more than they will be able to neutralize Stutzle. Of course he wil lgain more size and strength and that will go a long way to being hard to stop in front of the net and
on the boards...I can see that. I am NOT anti-Byfield. Als0 - SERIOUSLY - if he was measured as 6'4"215 at 17....he's probably growing still and turning 18 this month.
It is not out of the realm he grows 3 more inches and puts on 30 lbs...they say he's a very lanky 215 and can easily put on 25. So, what will he be like, if he actually tops out
at 6'7" 245 ? He probably will be 6'6" 240. But if he grows to 6'7", this is not good for speed and agility. That's where the game is headed. Has there ever been a
dominant forward that big? Since scouts pour over EVERYTHING, down to 'how he adjusted at leaving home at age 14" and crazy being scrutinizing things, how
about if he grows to 6'7" 245? That may not be a good thing.

Sorry about the Stutzle - Drai DEL stats...I did not see their ages and Drai was in the WHL at the same age.

Just remember that when you say Byfields game will diminish vs NHL players, we all know it will diminish. He won't score 82 points in 45 games. Just like Kane wasn't going to put up 145 points (62 goals) in 58 games like he did in the OHL. Byfield will get better, Kane obviously got better. Yet their games diminished when they went up to the NHL.

Stutzle is about to face tougher competition when he gets to the NHL. His game will also diminish. It's just difficult to gage how much because that league is a relative unkown. And at the end of the day he (unlike Kane and Byfield) is expected to actually do better against NHL players then what he has shown in his pre-draft year. So that very well might happen as he matures and gets better. But he isn't currently dominating the DEL.

To put it in perspective Stutzle is 47th in the DEL in scoring, tied for a 120th in goal scoring.

Anton Lundell who projects as a really solid two-way NHL center is 77th in scoring and 72nd in goals in a much tougher and more well known league.

So it's tough to make the argument that Stutzle is even better than Lundell right now.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Just remember that when you say Byfields game will diminish vs NHL players, we all know it will diminish. He won't score 82 points in 45 games. Just like Kane wasn't going to put up 145 points (62 goals) in 58 games like he did in the OHL. Byfield will get better, Kane obviously got better. Yet their games diminished when they went up to the NHL.

Stutzle is about to face tougher competition when he gets to the NHL. His game will also diminish. It's just difficult to gage how much because that league is a relative unkown. And at the end of the day he (unlike Kane and Byfield) is expected to actually do better against NHL players then what he has shown in his pre-draft year. So that very well might happen as he matures and gets better. But he isn't currently dominating the DEL.

To put it in perspective Stutzle is 47th in the DEL in scoring, tied for a 120th in goal scoring.

Anton Lundell who projects as a really solid two-way NHL center is 77th in scoring and 72nd in goals in a much tougher and more well known league.

So it's tough to make the argument that Stutzle is even better than Lundell right now.

I've pointed out elsewhere that I'm eager to see how Byfield does when he's physically challenged with checkers who actually want to hit him every shift vs. in the OHL where most people don't even go there. I think he'll be better in that situation, and people are forgetting that minus the man strength, he's bigger than most NHLers right now. This isn't some 6'1" 190 junior power forward that comes up a league and is smaller than most; Byfield is a behemoth already. Plus, if one of the criticisms is his consistency and engagement, if people are running around checking him, he's not just going t sit there and take it. When he wants to hit, people feel it.

Similar goes for Stutzle. one of the criticisms is he just takes the open ice that's there--well, in the NHL no one is going to let him into the middle scot free like the do in the DEL and he's going to have to make more snap decisions in the offensive zone instead of taking laps until he skates a hole in the D. But he's an elite playmaker and he's going to adapt to that, and he'll get to use his edges and agility more when set up on the smaller ice.

And both guys will adapt to having better teammates for support.

These are things people point out as stuff to work on at the next level but I see them as grand opportunities rather than weaknesses.

 

[lumbergh]

I'm gonna point out a non-hockey angle here. Let's say you're Rob Blake or Luc Robitaille looking at two players that are pretty different and trying to make a judgment about who to draft. At the end of the process you can't tell who will be a better/more valuable hockey player.

All hockey things being equal, there's a marketing benefit to drafting Byfield for the Kings. Demographically the Los Angeles is very different than Ottawa. Hockey is very pale, and watched by almost exclusively White fans. LA County is only half White, whereas Ottawa is more like 3/4 White. If the Kings want to grow their fan base, I think it would be great to draft a top non-White player, and even better if that player develops into a big star.

I mean, when was the last time the Kings had a player of non-European ancestry? Anson Carter? If you're non-White and casually interested in hockey, a star non-White player might help draw you in to actually turning on a game, or going to a game. Just imagine seeing Byfield and Akil Thomas on a billboard on the 101 along side Kopitar and Doughty. That could be a big draw.

I'm not a marketing genius or anything, so I could be totally wrong, but the demographic angle could tilt the balance.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Some kid who went first overall in 2013 only had a single assist in 6 games at the WJC. Do you think he should’ve gone later based on those numbers?

Stats have NOTHING to do with with I said. I really wish people would stop using stats as a way to punish his WJC and I wish people would stop using his age as a way to defend the the things that he should NOT have struggled with. Take stats out and objectively try to project Byfield against NHL talent in two years. There are things that make me very concerned about his ability to reach his potential.
I will reiterate:
He seems overly nervous when he has someone pressuring him. This led to far too many: fumbled pucks, bad reads, tentative plays. Also, most guys will use their limited ice time to earn ice time. He just didn't go get it like I want to see.
His awareness is certainly questionable.

These are all things that I watched very closely because, as I said, I am always concerned about how a guy that has always (despite age) been much bigger, faster and skilled than their opponent will respond when they get "punched in the mouth". How do they respond when someone is as fast as them or as big as them. How will they respond when you have a guy who can keep up with you, drape your body AND use their stick?

Can you honestly say that you have no concerns? I think we all believe that he will be very good. He's been touched by god in the skill and physical department. But to be great in this game you have to be a cool head and have awareness. Otherwise, what do you get when that big body gets a couple of injuries? Mortality.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Stats have NOTHING to do with with I said. I really wish people would stop using stats as a way to punish his WJC and I wish people would stop using his age as a way to defend the the things that he should NOT have struggled with. Take stats out and objectively try to project Byfield against NHL talent in two years. There are things that make me very concerned about his ability to reach his potential.
I will reiterate:
He seems overly nervous when he has someone pressuring him. This led to far too many: fumbled pucks, bad reads, tentative plays. Also, most guys will use their limited ice time to earn ice time. He just didn't go get it like I want to see.
His awareness is certainly questionable.

These are all things that I watched very closely because, as I said, I am always concerned about how a guy that has always (despite age) been much bigger, faster and skilled than their opponent will respond when they get "punched in the mouth". How do they respond when someone is as fast as them or as big as them. How will they respond when you have a guy who can keep up with you, drape your body AND use their stick?

Can you honestly say that you have no concerns? I think we all believe that he will be very good. He's been touched by god in the skill and physical department. But to be great in this game you have to be a cool head and have awareness. Otherwise, what do you get when that big body gets a couple of injuries? Mortality.

So why do you keep bringing up his WJC play in limited action? Are you suggesting that playing in the OHL he didn't get to face other prospects who are as fast or big, and that type of competition was only available at the World Juniors?

Your assessment is just way off from everything I've read and heard about the player and seen him do the things you are clamoring for, like scoring goals and dishing pucks while opponents are draped all over him. Maybe you just haven't looked hard enough at this.

You just keep bringing up his limited action in a tournament that typically don't carry 17-year-old players.

 

[cyclones22]

So why do you keep bringing up his WJC play in limited action? Are you suggesting that playing in the OHL he didn't get to face other prospects who are as fast or big, and that type of competition was only available at the World Juniors?

Your assessment is just way off from everything I've read and heard about the player and seen him do the things you are clamoring for, like scoring goals and dishing pucks while opponents are draped all over him. Maybe you just haven't looked hard enough at this.

You just keep bringing up his limited action in a tournament that typically don't carry 17-year-old players.

Which is silly because Canadian Junior hockey is basically the best youth development platform for fostering future NHL'ers. Historically it's without a doubt. It's like questioning the skills and upside of a basketball player who attends a university and tears it up during the season but discounting the dominance because he has a poor NCAA tournament.