Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

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You don’t take a player due to a single good or bad tournament, in any sport. You have to look at the big picture. In football Liverpool signed Diouf after the 2000 World Cup after a stunning tournament and it proved a joke of a signing, we even took him instead of keeping Anelka... a ******* J O K E. Every team sport produces loads of similar examples.

International tournaments are a small sample size in unusual specific circumstances that don’t reflect the situation you are signing them for. Tournaments should be part of the information that is considered, but it really shouldn’t be weighted heavily, be it a good or a bad showing.
 
I've been reading that Stützle plays center when playing against guys his own age, when I say that I mean U20 and down, obviously playing center against men when you're 17/18 and that team is trying to win is different animal.
 
I just have this gut feeling the Rags will pick Byfield
Trust me, there’s no chance of that happening. Our President has already let it slipped we’re taking Laf at one and the organization has been gushing over him. The only chance we don’t take Laf is if we traded out for a massive haul, which I give about a 1% chance of happening. If y’all want Byfield, trust me, you have nothing to worry about.
 
Trust me, there’s no chance of that happening. Our President has already let it slipped we’re taking Laf at one and the organization has been gushing over him. The only chance we don’t take Laf is if we traded out for a massive haul, which I give about a 1% chance of happening. If y’all want Byfield, trust me, you have nothing to worry about.
Thank you. I feel much better now about our chances of getting Byfield
 
Thank you. I feel much better now about our chances of getting Byfield
I’m the same. Lafreniere is rightly the consensus #1 but I have consistently said I think that when we do redrafts in the future, Byfield ends up the best player from the draft class. I felt that before the draft lottery so I’m not just saying that because HE is our likely pick.

Edit: for some reason I decided that Byfield was a girl :laugh:
 
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I'm with this. While I appreciate the info from RangerSeth and other Rangers fans, I can't get past the feeling either.
If it makes you feel better (aside from what I posted earlier), some people kept thinking we’d pass on Kakko last season to fill a need (usually for Byram), and that didn’t happen, obviously. I can’t help your lingering thoughts, but you should trust me on this one! Haha

We even know with certainty that Laf is 1 on our board (unsurprisingly, obviously), because we have known for awhile that we are one of the teams that Bob polls for his rankings.
 
Thank you. I feel much better now about our chances of getting Byfield
I don't know. I hear the Kings are having a lot of conversations with Sgt. Stutzle.

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Hi,
I started reading this thread out of pure curiosity as to what the kings fanbase preferred with the 2nd pick. Around half way through I really started to feel an urge to share my opinion. The extreme preference to QB on this board is honestly very interesting to see. In my opinion not only would ST fit the roster better, but his electric ability to dictate play and create offense is an ability very few have. I really just want to comment on some of the reasoning for the strong preference of QB over ST.

So to start, I need to express the lack of respect for the DEL as pro leauge is kind of silly. Just take a look at Moritz Seider. People thought the Redwings were crazy for drafting him so high. He only put up 6 points in the DEL the season before he was drafted. After the draft he put up nearly 4 times that amount of points in the AHL. Yes he played 20 more games in AHL. That does not change the fact that he put up .44 ppg in the AHL compared to .21in DEL a season prior. So when an 18 year old gets nearly a ppg in the DEL yes it is actually an incredibly big deal(hence the consensus top 3). Combine that with his play at WJC, which considering USA, Russia, and Canada are littered with top NHL talent and Germany was the 2nd worst team there his play was impressive, but the fact that he was able to not only stand out against teams like the US and Russia is incredible, but more importantly to this thread he stood out against Canada a team comprised of CHL all stars and top NHL picks not just the OHL.

First, the thing I have seen mentioned on this board a lot is size. As a person who has played high level hockey and against various top 10 picks(Provorov I played against most) I have to say size means nothing. My brother played against, and with a few times, Johnny Gaudrea since he was 10. As you can guess JG was tiny his whole life and no exaggerations every 2 years from age 10 to 20 you'd listen to his competition say next level it will catch up with him. Obviously it never did. Because size ultimately means very little unless your say Chara where size is the forefront of his game.

Next thing that TS is knocked for was shot. I have to say you know shooting is probably the easiest skill to develop in all of Hockey right? Development could be as short as half a season if the player commits to progressing the way you imagine a professional would. Shift that development to skating and the development curve extends time wise extensively. From half a season maybe 1 full one to multiple years. And in reality elite Edge work is typically developed at younger ages then honed/perfected in the NHL.

Last one and somehow it does not factor into most peoples thought process on here is Hockey IQ. Hockey IQ is a tool the separates the best from the rest. It obviously will not mean much without the elite intangible skills. But if a player has elite skills what separates the best from the elite? IQ. I'm really not certain its teachable either. What made Crosby and Gretzky the greatest ever? IQ. Their master level control and understanding of the flow of the game is what makes them the best. At their heights its like watching a player who's mind is five steps ahead of everyone else on the ice. Without the elite skill, as I said earlier, it obviously will not amount to much. But IQ in tamdem with with Skill is what the Best Ever have over every single other elite skilled player. I genuinely think IQ is the hardest skill to develop if it really can be. QB has good IQ so with his skill he obviously will be good. However, TS possesses a hockey IQ that is quite frankly off the charts. Combine IQ with silky and creative hands, incredible skating, and ability to create space makes watching TS play is so reminiscent of Patrick Kane it chilling. His elite edge work and more specifically his mitts give me flash backs to Pavel Datsyuk as well. QBs play gives me strong sensations of Eric staal. I also genuinely see a ton of JVR too though, mostly with their style of play in front of the net, goal scoring ability, shot, size, raw talent.

Before I conclude I need to address the Malkin comparison. No QB will never be Malkin one of the greatest players ever and I dont say that to be rude him. He will be fantastic, but in truth Malkins greatest strength is also his Elite IQ. He developed his technical skills more after he was drafted but he his IQ was nearly as good as Crosby's at one point in his career. QB's technical skills are great but his Hockey IQ is not close to Malkin and unfortunately I personally can not see that ever happening.

Overall you will get great player and yeah QB is good. If you're mad the kings pick ST though I feel sorry for you. To me ST, again just my opinion, is going to be the better player and potentially one of the best in the NHL fast. His IQ will make his game translate to the NHL quickly and will make the entire team better.

I was genuinely hoping the kings fans would want to take ST mainly because I think he is better, but also I love the sport and I think a German born player going to the 2nd largest market in the US would help grow the game exponentially on a global level. Oh well though, I wish your franchise the best because their success is also important for the growth of Hockey as a whole.
 
Hi,
I started reading this thread out of pure curiosity as to what the kings fanbase preferred with the 2nd pick. Around half way through I really started to feel an urge to share my opinion. The extreme preference to QB on this board is honestly very interesting to see. In my opinion not only would ST fit the roster better, but his electric ability to dictate play and create offense is an ability very few have. I really just want to comment on some of the reasoning for the strong preference of QB over ST.

So to start, I need to express the lack of respect for the DEL as pro leauge is kind of silly. Just take a look at Moritz Seider. People thought the Redwings were crazy for drafting him so high. He only put up 6 points in the DEL the season before he was drafted. After the draft he put up nearly 4 times that amount of points in the AHL. Yes he played 20 more games in AHL. That does not change the fact that he put up .44 ppg in the AHL compared to .21in DEL a season prior. So when an 18 year old gets nearly a ppg in the DEL yes it is actually an incredibly big deal(hence the consensus top 3). Combine that with his play at WJC, which considering USA, Russia, and Canada are littered with top NHL talent and Germany was the 2nd worst team there his play was impressive, but the fact that he was able to not only stand out against teams like the US and Russia is incredible, but more importantly to this thread he stood out against Canada a team comprised of CHL all stars and top NHL picks not just the OHL.

First, the thing I have seen mentioned on this board a lot is size. As a person who has played high level hockey and against various top 10 picks(Provorov I played against most) I have to say size means nothing. My brother played against, and with a few times, Johnny Gaudrea since he was 10. As you can guess JG was tiny his whole life and no exaggerations every 2 years from age 10 to 20 you'd listen to his competition say next level it will catch up with him. Obviously it never did. Because size ultimately means very little unless your say Chara where size is the forefront of his game.

Next thing that TS is knocked for was shot. I have to say you know shooting is probably the easiest skill to develop in all of Hockey right? Development could be as short as half a season if the player commits to progressing the way you imagine a professional would. Shift that development to skating and the development curve extends time wise extensively. From half a season maybe 1 full one to multiple years. And in reality elite Edge work is typically developed at younger ages then honed/perfected in the NHL.

Last one and somehow it does not factor into most peoples thought process on here is Hockey IQ. Hockey IQ is a tool the separates the best from the rest. It obviously will not mean much without the elite intangible skills. But if a player has elite skills what separates the best from the elite? IQ. I'm really not certain its teachable either. What made Crosby and Gretzky the greatest ever? IQ. Their master level control and understanding of the flow of the game is what makes them the best. At their heights its like watching a player who's mind is five steps ahead of everyone else on the ice. Without the elite skill, as I said earlier, it obviously will not amount to much. But IQ in tamdem with with Skill is what the Best Ever have over every single other elite skilled player. I genuinely think IQ is the hardest skill to develop if it really can be. QB has good IQ so with his skill he obviously will be good. However, TS possesses a hockey IQ that is quite frankly off the charts. Combine IQ with silky and creative hands, incredible skating, and ability to create space makes watching TS play is so reminiscent of Patrick Kane it chilling. His elite edge work and more specifically his mitts give me flash backs to Pavel Datsyuk as well. QBs play gives me strong sensations of Eric staal. I also genuinely see a ton of JVR too though, mostly with their style of play in front of the net, goal scoring ability, shot, size, raw talent.

Before I conclude I need to address the Malkin comparison. No QB will never be Malkin one of the greatest players ever and I dont say that to be rude him. He will be fantastic, but in truth Malkins greatest strength is also his Elite IQ. He developed his technical skills more after he was drafted but he his IQ was nearly as good as Crosby's at one point in his career. QB's technical skills are great but his Hockey IQ is not close to Malkin and unfortunately I personally can not see that ever happening.

Overall you will get great player and yeah QB is good. If you're mad the kings pick ST though I feel sorry for you. To me ST, again just my opinion, is going to be the better player and potentially one of the best in the NHL fast. His IQ will make his game translate to the NHL quickly and will make the entire team better.

I was genuinely hoping the kings fans would want to take ST mainly because I think he is better, but also I love the sport and I think a German born player going to the 2nd largest market in the US would help grow the game exponentially on a global level. Oh well though, I wish your franchise the best because their success is also important for the growth of Hockey as a whole.


Very much appreciate your insights on Stutzle's game, but I think you're misinterpreting a few things as others have:

1. The board may be a majority Byfield, but it's not because he's massively better, it's just a sizeable amount of people think he's slightly better. But since it's a binary choice, it looks worse than it is. I'm personally probably the most vocal Byfield supporter but if we pick Stutzle I wouldn't be mad, I trust our scouting department--the only reason you're seeing people upset at all is a bunch of people outside our market are criticizing everyone inside our market.

2. I haven't seen anyone knock Stutzle's size, I only see people praising Byfield's size and potential size. TS is good NHL size and stands to get stronger, but he's also extremely elusive. Byfield is a 1 in 1000 size player especially to go with the skills.

With respect to the rest: I'm not convinced shooting is an 'easy' skill to learn, and right now, Stutzle is hucking muffins. Maybe he gets to NHL average. But I'll agree with you that it's a technique/hard skill rather than a brain thing and something he can work on. I just think he needs to get to an area where people at least respect his shot and not Joe Thornton territory where everyone in the building knows he nearly HAS to pass.

I'm also not convinced Byfield has a low IQ. I see that echoed over and over as a criticism and while I agree I don't think he literally becomes Malkin he's certainly stylisticly that kind of player. Malkin is definitely generational IQ and an extra drop of anger. Byfield and Stutzle is a hard decision because they're really so unique--I know the Staal thing comes up a lot more lately with Byfield but I don't see it since he's an elite skater. Staal with elite skating? That's kinda terrifying. Yet I do kind of see the Datsyuk/Kane thing with Stutzle, the 'dance'.

It's a tough choice and I think since we've been defending the market so to speak it might look like we don't like Stutzle but that's certainly not the case.
 
I'm a huge fan of ST as well. Love me some Suicidal Tendencies.
images


I have to say, the comparison of Stutzle to Kane is a lot more ridiculous than comparing Byfield to Malkin.

Kane's numbers from his draft year:
145 points and 62 goals in 58 games with the London Knights, plus 31 points in 16 playoff games.

Kane scored more goals in the OHL playoffs than Stutzle had the entire season in Germany.

Patrick Kane also won the following in a single season in juniors.


Stutzle doesn't like to shoot much. He had 6 shots in 5 games at the WJC and registered 88 shots in 41 games in the DEL, with a 8.0 shooting percentage. It's not just the quality of his shot that is nonlethal, but Stutzle doesn't present himself as much of a goal scorer.

A more realistic comparison might be Mat Barzal or Teuvo Teravainen, or if you're really going to aim high, Mitch Marner, all guys who are primarily playmakers. Comparing Stutzle to Kane is about as realistic as expecting Byfield to become the next Malkin.
 
Very much appreciate your insights on Stutzle's game, but I think you're misinterpreting a few things as others have:

1. The board may be a majority Byfield, but it's not because he's massively better, it's just a sizeable amount of people think he's slightly better. But since it's a binary choice, it looks worse than it is. I'm personally probably the most vocal Byfield supporter but if we pick Stutzle I wouldn't be mad, I trust our scouting department--the only reason you're seeing people upset at all is a bunch of people outside our market are criticizing everyone inside our market.

2. I haven't seen anyone knock Stutzle's size, I only see people praising Byfield's size and potential size. TS is good NHL size and stands to get stronger, but he's also extremely elusive. Byfield is a 1 in 1000 size player especially to go with the skills.

With respect to the rest: I'm not convinced shooting is an 'easy' skill to learn, and right now, Stutzle is hucking muffins. Maybe he gets to NHL average. But I'll agree with you that it's a technique/hard skill rather than a brain thing and something he can work on. I just think he needs to get to an area where people at least respect his shot and not Joe Thornton territory where everyone in the building knows he nearly HAS to pass.

I'm also not convinced Byfield has a low IQ. I see that echoed over and over as a criticism and while I agree I don't think he literally becomes Malkin he's certainly stylisticly that kind of player. Malkin is definitely generational IQ and an extra drop of anger. Byfield and Stutzle is a hard decision because they're really so unique--I know the Staal thing comes up a lot more lately with Byfield but I don't see it since he's an elite skater. Staal with elite skating? That's kinda terrifying. Yet I do kind of see the Datsyuk/Kane thing with Stutzle, the 'dance'.

It's a tough choice and I think since we've been defending the market so to speak it might look like we don't like Stutzle but that's certainly not the case.
Very much appreciate your insights on Stutzle's game, but I think you're misinterpreting a few things as others have:

1. The board may be a majority Byfield, but it's not because he's massively better, it's just a sizeable amount of people think he's slightly better. But since it's a binary choice, it looks worse than it is. I'm personally probably the most vocal Byfield supporter but if we pick Stutzle I wouldn't be mad, I trust our scouting department--the only reason you're seeing people upset at all is a bunch of people outside our market are criticizing everyone inside our market.

2. I haven't seen anyone knock Stutzle's size, I only see people praising Byfield's size and potential size. TS is good NHL size and stands to get stronger, but he's also extremely elusive. Byfield is a 1 in 1000 size player especially to go with the skills.

With respect to the rest: I'm not convinced shooting is an 'easy' skill to learn, and right now, Stutzle is hucking muffins. Maybe he gets to NHL average. But I'll agree with you that it's a technique/hard skill rather than a brain thing and something he can work on. I just think he needs to get to an area where people at least respect his shot and not Joe Thornton territory where everyone in the building knows he nearly HAS to pass.

I'm also not convinced Byfield has a low IQ. I see that echoed over and over as a criticism and while I agree I don't think he literally becomes Malkin he's certainly stylisticly that kind of player. Malkin is definitely generational IQ and an extra drop of anger. Byfield and Stutzle is a hard decision because they're really so unique--I know the Staal thing comes up a lot more lately with Byfield but I don't see it since he's an elite skater. Staal with elite skating? That's kinda terrifying. Yet I do kind of see the Datsyuk/Kane thing with Stutzle, the 'dance'.

It's a tough choice and I think since we've been defending the market so to speak it might look like we don't like Stutzle but that's certainly not the case.

I really appreciate your fair response. I think you make some great points. I did not mean to say size is used against ST but rather size is an asset that tips many posters scales toward QB. Also I by no means think QB has a low hockey IQ. I was only saying that IQ is an asset in which ST has a decent advantage.

I did notice many outside posters and I had 0 intention of being rude. I just love hockey and really wanted to share my thoughts. Both are good and really only time will tell who was better.

As a fan with no horse in the race other than a general love for the sport and its future, both are great. I'm just personally all abroad the ST train and wherever he ends up I will be a fan. Overall I wish the kings franchise success regardless of the pick. And I appreciate the fairness. At the end of it all,, I would rather buy an ST jersey with a Kings logo than a Sens though.
 
I think your love for TS (guessing you are from Germany) is clouding your interpretation of this thread and the related comments. It's likely about 95-99% of folks on here that say that if TS is the pick, we'll be happy. It's happy either way. There is just a general slightly preference of QB by the majority and thus the approximate 80/20 preference for QB. But there is no dislike for TS. Seriously, if TS is the pick, immediately after you will have King fans all over being the biggest TS fanboys around. We're pretty lucky to have this #2 pick and either way we will be winners between QB or TS.
 
I'm a huge fan of ST as well. Love me some Suicidal Tendencies.
images


I have to say, the comparison of Stutzle to Kane is a lot more ridiculous than comparing Byfield to Malkin.

Kane's numbers from his draft year:
145 points and 62 goals in 58 games with the London Knights, plus 31 points in 16 playoff games.

Kane scored more goals in the OHL playoffs than Stutzle had the entire season in Germany.

Patrick Kane also won the following in a single season in juniors.

Stutzle doesn't like to shoot much. He had 6 shots in 5 games at the WJC and registered 88 shots in 41 games in the DEL, with a 8.0 shooting percentage. It's not just the quality of his shot that is nonlethal, but Stutzle doesn't present himself as much of a goal scorer.

A more realistic comparison might be Mat Barzal or Teuvo Teravainen, or if you're really going to aim high, Mitch Marner, all guys who are primarily playmakers. Comparing Stutzle to Kane is about as realistic as expecting Byfield to become the next Malkin.

That is why comparisons in general are risky business. I know it's high praise, but I personally see that in his play. It is fine to disagree, I am just sharing my personal insight. It not possible for me to be wrong YET though because only time will provide that answer. There certainly is a chance I am wrong and I admit that, but I believe in what I see and that is Stützle has next gen potential. Shooting and goals will come with NHL training in my opinion. Time will ultimately tell.
 
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I think your love for TS (guessing you are from Germany) is clouding your interpretation of this thread and the related comments. It's likely about 95-99% of folks on here that say that if TS is the pick, we'll be happy. It's happy either way. There is just a general slightly preference of QB by the majority and thus the approximate 80/20 preference for QB. But there is no dislike for TS. Seriously, if TS is the pick, immediately after you will have King fans all over being the biggest TS fanboys around. We're pretty lucky to have this #2 pick and either way we will be winners between QB or TS.

Nah I'm from the greater Philly area haha. I just played hockey since I was 4 and high level from 8-18. When kids I played with/against for awhile started getting drafted I starting paying attention to prospects a lot. You're right I have seen most people say they would be fine with TS. I was referring to a very limited number that did not seem thrilled by the idea. Both are quite good
 
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Hi,
Combine that with his play at WJC, which considering USA, Russia, and Canada are littered with top NHL talent and Germany was the 2nd worst team there his play was impressive, but the fact that he was able to not only stand out against teams like the US and Russia is incredible, but more importantly to this thread he stood out against Canada a team comprised of CHL all stars and top NHL picks not just the OHL.

I think you are exaggerating his performance against USA, Russia, and Canada a bit. And also downplaying the quality of talent Stutzle got to play with on Germany. Stutzle was regularly on the ice with Peterka, Bokk, Seider, and Reichel. So while the rest of the German team was not talented the top end of that team was legit.

Stutzle played 58 total minutes against those top three teams and had 2 assists. I'm not knocking the kid for two assists, it's still solid for his age. But it's not like he was just saddled with trash linemates and lit those three good teams up.
 
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