Who are your top 10 defenseman next season?

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The people who have Fox 6th or 7th are going on a list of their own.

Imagine having Heiskanen above Fox when Fox is only better offensively AND defensively than Miro.

I guess Miro skates better and that’s all that matters

I like how people are crapping on Dahlin who had 59 pts which was tied for his team lead. Meanwhile Bouchard plays with 2 of the top 5ish players in the league as teammates. Switch them and Dahlin imo is looking far superior to Bouchard. Expecting a defenceman to do really well offensively while playing on a team that produced lower top end pt totals is silly. 59 pts is still a great season for most defenceman.

The only defender who had similar teammate production was Morrissey but WPG being a playoff team is better than non playoff team Buffalo. The rest all have far superior teammates to help get more pts.

Dahlin was a bit overrated but he’s still much better than Fraudchard

 

[57special]

FYI, Brock Faber, a virtual look alike for McAvoy, had the exact same amount of points as him. and nearly the same amount of TOI(Faber averaged 7 seconds more). Faber had a weaker supporting cast, as Spurgeon virtually missed the entire year, and Brodin 1/4 of the year.

 

[Soundwave]

Just have zero respect for defencemen who can't play defence. Love having that pylon in the division though; he's the kind of guy you love to play against.

Did you love losing in the 2nd round too after getting dominated by Bouchard who was the best player in that Edmonton-Vancouver series?

He took Quinn Hughes to school.

Bouchard: 4G, 7A, 11 points +7 and either scored or primary assist on the game winner in 3/4 Oiler wins, including game 7's series winner.

Hughes: 0G, 5A, 5 points, +2

Head to head.

You can't have it both ways, either Quinn Hughes got his lunch money stolen from him in a series by a C-tier D and is thus overrated or Bouchard is actually good.

 

[hurdemz]

I guess you don't watch hughes play. Joke of a list.

Sorry for hurting your feelings bro. Guess opinions have to be the same as yours to not be considered a joke.

I love how hughes plays, i just happen to be higher on the guys ahead of him on my list.

 

[Idiot Stick]

Did you love losing in the 2nd round too after getting dominated by Bouchard who was the best player in that Edmonton-Vancouver series?

He took Quinn Hughes to school.

Bouchard: 4G, 7A, 11 points +7 and either scored or primary assist on the game winner in 3/4 Oiler wins, including game 7's series winner.

Hughes: 0G, 5A, 5 points, +2

Head to head.

You can't have it both ways, either Quinn Hughes got his lunch money stolen from him in a series by a C-tier D and is thus overrated or Bouchard is actually good.

lol what even is this comparison

 

[Soundwave]

lol what even is this comparison

What's wrong with comparing two players head to head in the playoffs? That's about the best comparison you're going to get, big boy hockey.

Bouchard wasn't just better than Hughes in that series, he was better than any player on either team, McDavid included in that series. Anyone who watched the series objectively would be hard pressed to say otherwise too.

Bouchard dominated that series.

 

[Idiot Stick]

What's wrong with comparing two players head to head in the playoffs? That's about the best comparison you're going to get, big boy hockey.

Bouchard wasn't just better than Hughes in that series, he was better than any player on either team, McDavid included in that series. Anyone who watched the series objectively would be hard pressed to say otherwise too.

Bouchard dominated that series.

comparing defensemen by head to head scoring is dumb as hell

You forgetting the Canucks had their 3rd string goalie playing?

Like saying Forsling is better than Fox cause he outscored him head to head

 

[Machinehead]

comparing defensemen by head to head scoring is dumb as hell

You forgetting the Canucks had their 3rd string goalie playing?

Like saying Forsling is better than Fox cause he outscored him head to head

People do think Forsling is better than Fox tho

 

[Soundwave]

comparing defensemen by head to head scoring is dumb as hell

You forgetting the Canucks had their 3rd string goalie playing?

Like saying Forsling is better than Fox cause he outscored him head to head

Skinner was awful in that series too so goaltending is a wash, Bouchard was +7 anyone who watched that series (I'm guessing you honestly did not) can say Bouchard dominated that series.

He was hands down the best player for either team.

 

[Idiot Stick]

People do think Forsling is better than Fox tho

If they can come up with actual metric to prove/disprove it sure w/e, but my point was saying one Dman is better than the other cause they scored more goals than the other is peak r/nhl

Skinner was awful in that series too so goaltending is a wash, Bouchard was +7 anyone who watched that series (I'm guessing you honestly did not) can say Bouchard dominated that series.

He was hands down the best player for either team.

no it wasnt, losing your vezina finalist goalie and his backup is not equal to having an average #1 in net
Bouchard had a crazy good playoffs theres no doubting that

 

[Machinehead]

If they can come up with actual metric to prove/disprove it sure w/e, but my point was saying one Dman is better than the other cause they scored more goals than the other is peak r/nhl

Yeah, it's silly.

It's not like basketball where you can easily say Center A playing 35 minutes was better than Center B playing 35 minutes.

 

[Soundwave]

If they can come up with actual metric to prove/disprove it sure w/e, but my point was saying one Dman is better than the other cause they scored more goals than the other is peak r/nhl

no it wasnt, losing your vezina finalist goalie and his backup is not equal to having an average #1 in net
Bouchard had a crazy good playoffs theres no doubting that

Skinner was being outplayed by the Canucks goalie for much of that series though, lol, so I don't really know how much of an advantage it is. Maybe that guy is good too, every goalie pretty much at some point starts as a back up before they become somebody.

But yeah as it relates to Bouchard, the fact is he was the best player in that series. I don't even think it's even a debate. It's either him or Leon and Leon was just an average even 0, Bouchard was +7 and scored or was the primary assist on multiple game winners in the series including game 7's winner.

It's not "just points". He did dominate Hughes offensively by more than doubling his point total but was also +7 and scored/or assisted on the game winning goal in 3/7 games, that's absurd for a D.

 

[Horvat1C]

1) Makar
2) Heiskanen
3) Q. Hughes
-------------
4) Fox
5) Josi
----------
6) McAvoy
7) Hedman
8) Forsling
9) Dahlin
10) Bouchard

 

[PuckG]

comparing defensemen by head to head scoring is dumb as hell

You forgetting the Canucks had their 3rd string goalie playing?

Like saying Forsling is better than Fox cause he outscored him head to head

Silovs played outstanding and is the reason the series went as long as it did. The first few games was all chatter about how Silovs was already better than Skinner. Now stating “3rd string goalie” is just a convenient crutch for Canuck fans (and you), all of who also ignore that McDavid, Draisaitl and Kane also played the series injured.

Comparing the two best defenceman and their statistics/impact for their respective teams in a head to head match-up is perfectly reasonable.

 

[Imgoingtowork]

After last NHL get stuck in Quinn Hughes the year best defencemen and best rookie and next season Quinn Hughes will deliver of best fame.

 

[McPoyle]

Just have zero respect for defencemen who can't play defence. Love having that pylon in the division though; he's the kind of guy you love to play against.

Lol Bouchard went 4-7-11 +7 with 2 GWG against your team in the playoffs. 4 ESG, 8 ESP.

He the best player in a series that also featured McDavid, Draisaitl, Hyman, Miller, Hughes, Pettersson. It was an all time performance in a series by a defenceman in the history of the league. Sure you loved it.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Ok, but I think a fair follow up questions is: why does Carolina keep acquiring PPQB's?

A top 10 defenseman in the world runs their team's powerplay. I guess I have high standards for being top 10. I thought it was like, you know, the 10 best in the world or something.

I think the reason Slavin doesn't get PP1 is similar to Q. Hughes not playing PK for Vancouver, but in reverse. What I mean is, Hughes is so good offensively and tilt the ice so much on even strength and PP, that it is in the team's best interest to use him exclusively in that role. Can he kill penalties? Of course he can, but that is not utilizing him to his absolute max capacity.

Slavin is so good defensively and PK, that it helps Carolina wins more games by deploying him as a shutdown D 5-on-5 and lead their PK. Can he run PP1? He probably can, but they rather have other players in that role in order to allow Slavin to do what he does best, which is to be an elite shutdown defenseman.

This isn't the same league as 10, or even 5 years ago, where your top D has to play in every situation. The strategy is to maximize ice time for players in situations that allow them to play to their strength, and have other lower cost players fill out the other roles. And honestly, that make sense to me.

PS: going into next season I take Makar as the clear cut #1. #2-10 are too hard to tell/rank at this point but when healthy, I think Makar is still the best D in the league.

 

[5 14 6 1]

I mean he did take a very odd path to the NHL, I'm pretty sure before his breakout even a lot of Oilers fans thought he was another Oilers draft failure.

I don't agree with that really. He has been a 0.5ppg defenseman since he really started in the league full time, and wasn't given any type of real chance by Tippet.

He is now an elite PPQB, elite 5v5 offense producer and he is improving all the time in his own end. His xGF, actual GF% and +/- back up that he gets so much more than he gives up and its not really close. His results away from McDavid are elite as well.

 

[jackjohnson]

That video shows his offense though not how he plays defensively.

 

[Oleksiak]

Did you love losing in the 2nd round too after getting dominated by Bouchard who was the best player in that Edmonton-Vancouver series?

He took Quinn Hughes to school.

Bouchard: 4G, 7A, 11 points +7 and either scored or primary assist on the game winner in 3/4 Oiler wins, including game 7's series winner.

Hughes: 0G, 5A, 5 points, +2

Head to head.

You can't have it both ways, either Quinn Hughes got his lunch money stolen from him in a series by a C-tier D and is thus overrated or Bouchard is actually good.

Bouchard put up points, but his play in his own zone still does not approach what is acceptable for an NHLer.

 

[jackjohnson]

Did you love losing in the 2nd round too after getting dominated by Bouchard who was the best player in that Edmonton-Vancouver series?

He took Quinn Hughes to school.

Bouchard: 4G, 7A, 11 points +7 and either scored or primary assist on the game winner in 3/4 Oiler wins, including game 7's series winner.

Hughes: 0G, 5A, 5 points, +2

Head to head.

You can't have it both ways, either Quinn Hughes got his lunch money stolen from him in a series by a C-tier D and is thus overrated or Bouchard is actually good.

No one questions Bouchard's offense. His defense is the problem but since he plays with Ekholm, his weak defensive game is covered. Pair Bouchard with a weaker D like Hronek who likes to take risks and sometimes gets burned defensively and Bouchard would not look good. I credit Oilers for getting Ekholm since he is a defensive beast.

Also regarding Hughes performance in round 2, he was clearly injured and was affected by that but am sure he wont use that as an excuse. He played very well in round 1 until he got sandwiched by two preds along the boards.

 

[Soundwave]

No one questions Bouchard's offense. His defense is the problem but since he plays with Ekholm, his weak defensive game is covered. Pair Bouchard with a weaker D like Hronek who likes to take risks and sometimes gets burned defensively and Bouchard would not look good. I credit Oilers for getting Ekholm since he is a defensive beast.

He was the best player on either team in that series. Full stop.

 

[jackjohnson]

Bouchard put up points, but his play in his own zone still does not approach what is acceptable for an NHLer.

Thats true, this is why he will have a tough time cracking top 3 for the Norris until he improves on his defense.

 

[Soundwave]

Thats true, this is why he will have a tough time cracking top 3 for the Norris until he improves on his defense.

That was his 3rd full season in the league, if he keeps playing like he did last year after a record breaking playoffs, he will start cracking the top 3 easily.

 

[jackjohnson]

He was the best player on either team in that series. Full stop.

I think Canucks have learned from that and the reason why they got defensemen that can block shots along with some good defensive players. The reason why Bouchard had success against Canucks was due to lack of shot blocking and allowing him a clear lane.