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Which organization is in the worst shape

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Which team is in the worst situation?

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    600
  • Poll closed .
SheldonJPlankton said:
Almost.

You're a bad team overperforming during the regular season. That's why you get perpetually pimp-slapped in the playoffs.
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Comical.

A team that's made the playoffs for 6 years straight (4th longest streak) is not a fluke.
  • Does this make Minnesota a fluke? They haven't made it past round 2014-15? They consistently make the playoffs.
  • Does this make Pittsburgh/Washington/Nashville? They lost in the first round for 4 consecutive years
I really don't understand your logic whatsoever.

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A fluke regular season is a team that makes it one or two years and then misses.
  • The devils of 2017-18 are a good example of a flukey team. Overperformed and made the playoffs off of a Taylor Hall masterclass.
  • The 2012-13 Maple Leafs: This is a valid example as it was our first year making the playoffs after a long period of time. We benefited from a shortened season and the injuries of others.
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You really can't say a team that has made the playoffs for 6 years in a row is a fluke. Especially when it has 4 high-end forwards, and good depth in relative to other teams.
 
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amnesiac said:
disagree, and Ive been the Habs biggest critic for the pat 15 years in terms of starting a proper rebuild.

They already have a very good young core in Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky, and Guhle, and have very promising players in Hutson, Roy, Beck, Mesar, and Mailloux in the wings.

Add the two 1st picks this summer (a top 6 and top 12 or so), and theyll probably get another relatively high pick in 2024. Whats not to like?

No way this is comparable to an Arizona situation. They havent even landed their 1C yet after al these years and are about to trade Chychrun! Their future as we speak is Dylan Guenther and 24 year old Keller.
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I am leafs fan. You are absolutely right. Habs have one of the better young cores out there. You guys are absolutely not the worst team on this board.

  1. Outside of Gallagher you don't really have any anchor contracts. Price can easily be LTIR. Armia/Savard/Anderson are starting to look worse but they are manageable.
  2. As you mentioned the prospect pool is looking stellar: Juraj Slafkovsky while having a mediocre season looks like he could become a good middle sixer, Guhle looks like a top 4 defender, Xhekaj could be a good stay at home guy, Hutson is a ppg at NCAA as a dman, Roy had an excellent WJC performance, Mesar is ppg ohler with great hands, Ylonen has seen promising production, guys like Beck/Kidney/Simoneau are projecting well.
  3. You have some high end pieces: Caufield and Suzuki.

Teams like Chicago/Arizona/Columbus look much worse on those metrics.
 
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Id say Pittsburgh.

They have no prospects and their pro players have very little value elft in them. Crosby is also still too good to allow them to tank.
 
Mitch nylander said:
Comical.

A team that's made the playoffs for 6 years straight (4th longest streak) is not a fluke.
  • Does this make Minnesota a fluke? They haven't made it past round 2014-15? They consistently make the playoffs.
  • Does this make Pittsburgh/Washington/Nashville? They lost in the first round for 4 consecutive years
I really don't understand your logic whatsoever.

-------

A fluke regular season is a team that makes it one or two years and then misses.
  • The devils of 2017-18 are a good example of a flukey team. Overperformed and made the playoffs off of a Taylor Hall masterclass.
  • The 2012-13 Maple Leafs: This is a valid example as it was our first year making the playoffs after a long period of time. We benefited from a shortened season and the injuries of others.
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You really can't say a team that has made the playoffs for 6 years in a row is a fluke. Especially when it has 4 high-end forwards, and good depth in relative to other teams.
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What's comical is your use of fluke. I never said fluke...I said the Leafs were a bad team.

6 years, one of which they couldn't make the first round and another they made with a paltry 95 points. There's two fluke seasons right there.
 
Mitch nylander said:
I am leafs fan. You are absolutely right. Habs have one of the better young cores out there. You guys are absolutely not the worst team on this board.

  1. Outside of Gallagher you don't really have any anchor contracts. Price can easily be LTIR. Armia/Savard/Anderson are starting to look worse but they are manageable.
  2. As you mentioned the prospect pool is looking stellar: Juraj Slafkovsky while having a mediocre season looks like he could become a good middle sixer, Guhle looks like a top 4 defender, Xhekaj could be a good stay at home guy, Hutson is a ppg at NCAA as a dman, Roy had an excellent WJC performance, Mesar is ppg ohler with great hands, Ylonen has seen promising production, guys like Beck/Kidney/Simoneau are projecting well.
  3. You have some high end pieces: Caufield and Suzuki.

Teams like Chicago/Arizona/Columbus look much worse on those metrics.
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The kicker are the 2 picks this summer, a top 6 or so and possibly top 12. My guess is 2 more forwards on top of what they already have given the projections..... Im hopeful 2024 pick will be a good one as well (I think the Habs will still suck next season), and hopefully there will be a good Dman available. I love Guhle and Hutson going forward, but I think they need a true franchise Dman that almost every Cup winner has had since forever (exceptions 2017 Pens and 06 Canes).

Goalie im not so worried about. If they have to spend on a decent UFA in 4-5 years, so be it.
 
EddieTheEagle said:
I think Vancouver, if they blow it up, can have a very quick turnaround. They trade off some good pieces and suffer short-term (ish) pain, they could be set for the future. Think of a return on guys like Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Kuzmenko, etc. They're stuck with OEL and Miller but just ride those out.
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That’s a ton of salary to just ride out, though. You’re basically hoping to rebuild and become relevant again just as Miller’s contract expires, and he’s gonna be a problem through the entirety of it, it’d seem.

That said, I think Philly is in a similar position, and with Arizona it all depends on the arena/ownership. They’ve done well to stockpile picks, but if the organizational dysfunction is still there I’m not sure it matters much.

For some reason I wanna say Philly, overall. Traded picks, Risto, no top-end talent anywhere as far as I can tell. Vancouver gets enough attention that a change may become inevitable, but with Philly it’s just as much a culture of incompetence at this point, and there’s no signs it’ll change.
 
SheldonJPlankton said:
What's comical is your use of fluke. I never said fluke...I said the Leafs were a bad team.

6 years, one of which they couldn't make the first round and another they made with a paltry 95 points. There's two fluke seasons right there.
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Bad teams don't make the playoffs six years in a row. They likely make it 7 this year. This isn't some bad team, this is a consistent team that just hasn't figured things out in the playoffs. It's delusional to think they are some bad team because of that. It's not like Toronto is Arizona or San Jose...
 
HFpapi said:
What does this even mean?

What "cinderella" run are the Leafs on? We haven't made it past the first round since ****ing 2004. Cinderella teams are bad team doing well. We are a good team doing poorly (in the playoffs).
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Ha, I’m admittedly a Devils fan who can’t stand anything about the Leafs but I had the same reaction that you did. Cinderella?
 
Lateralous said:
Ha, I’m admittedly a Devils fan who can’t stand anything about the Leafs but I had the same reaction that you did. Cinderella?
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Cinderella was a scullery maid who made it big because, one...she was propped up unsustainably by a magical godmother and, two, she married a rich man. The entire fairy tale is about how she needs her father, her godmother, her Prince to provide for and define her success.

Like the Leafs, every moment when Cinderella should step up and take control of her own destiny and show the character/commitment to succeed in her own, she fails. The Leaf-centric media are her father, "Fairy" Bettman is her Godfather, and her Prince...well, Princes are rare in the real world and the Leafs attract to the team those players that hold the same character-flaws and deficiencies that ensure a loser mentality and outcome.

No Prince at the ball, just a evening of engorging at the snack table followed by the inevitable collapse as reality and normalcy return.
 
Mrb1p said:
Id say Pittsburgh.

They have no prospects and their pro players have very little value elft in them. Crosby is also still too good to allow them to tank.
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Most of our contracts are off the books when Crosby’s is. Makes it really easy for us to go full on tank. Disagree hard.

biturbo19 said:
I could see an argument for any of Philly, Florida, San Jose.

Philly will have to deal with the wreckage Torts leaves behind, don't really have any apparent "top flight" franchise changing prospects in the pipeline, and they've got a terrible set of pretty much completely unmovable contracts. They do have some other good assets that will help their outlook if Fletcher can move them for something decent...but then, that's not a safe bet.


Florida are in a bad spot to me. They're a better team than others right now, but they're capped out, don't have any futures in the pipeline or any draft picks to spend until a zillion years from now. They've also got some real kneejerk ownership who appear overly involved. They're a weird one, being much closer to being good...but they've dumped everything they have into being...not really good enough. Awkward.


San Jose also stand out to me as having some bad contracts that they're stuck with. But if Karlsson's resurgence somehow gets them out from under that one, that'd massively swing their outlook. So probably not them. Though in the short-term...yeah. And their prospect pool is weirdly empty for a team in their situation.



I can see why people are suggesting Vancouver. They've got some bad contracts, an overly involved meddling ownership, and probably aren't going to be bad enough to get into the very top of the draft. But it's hard to say that a team with a really good young #1C, a really good offensive catalyst of a defenceman on the back end, and a young starting goaltender are really in the "worst shape". A lot of the dead weight contracts only have a year and a half left and will either expire or be movable next year. The OEL one is the big issue, but they'll eventually start to climb out from under the other deals. They've at least got some building blocks in place.
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Florida has a ton of cap coming off the books next year?
 
I would say Vancouver or Calgary.

Could be the Oilers if they can’t re-sign and then refuse to trade Draisaitl and McDavid.

All answers should be Canadian teams, especially smaller market Canadian teams.
 
Vancouver is in bad shape when it comes to a team that's actually in a good market and should have ways to become competitive.
 
Gurglesons said:
Florida has a ton of cap coming off the books next year?
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They do? Hornqvist, sure...but i wouldn't say that's a ton. What else?

More the year after that...but then, also guys like Reinhart/Lundell/Forsling to re-sign. So that's probably a wash at best.
 
Gurglesons said:
Most of our contracts are off the books when Crosby’s is. Makes it really easy for us to go full on tank. Disagree hard.



Florida has a ton of cap coming off the books next year?
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And theres still zero value attached to your franchise. Youre ground zero, at least teams with bad contracts have value attached to them. Aside from Guentzel and a Crosby rental that is not going to happen, what value does your team have?
 
zar said:
I would say Vancouver or Calgary.

Could be the Oilers if they can’t re-sign and then refuse to trade Draisaitl and McDavid.

All answers should be Canadian teams, especially smaller market Canadian teams.
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Winnipeg I don't think will ever fit this as their drafting is consistently stellar.
 
In the past ten seasons Arizona has made the playoffs once. Their financial position has always appeared precarious, waiting now on a new arena deal, and they always seem to be selling off established players, with the latest being Chychrun on the trade block. I remember thinking they were on the right track in 04-09, when their first round picks included OEL, Mikkel Boedker, Kyle Turris, Peter Mueller, Martin Hanzal, and Blake Wheeler. But other than one playoff appearance, and one series win, they've had nothing to show for their toils and very little for their fans to get excited about.

That's a team that I don't feel like pulls themselves out of the bottom of the standings unless they get some truly good luck. Despite all those top ten picks, they've never been lucky enough to pick first overall.

Vancouver I think has a lot of bad juju surrounding them right now, but they have the assets there to recoup a lot of draft capital and rebuild if they commit to that direction. The question is whether they will. I think they're at a bit of a crossroads.
 
Mrb1p said:
And theres still zero value attached to your franchise. Youre ground zero, at least teams with bad contracts have value attached to them. Aside from Guentzel and a Crosby rental that is not going to happen, what value does your team have?
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I mean it was just sold for nearly a billion dollars so I think it has value.
 
Mrb1p said:
Yes... but how does that relate to the shape of the franchise on a hockey perspective?
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The shape is obvious. They are at the end of their contention window. They have maybe 2-3 more years left and then they are going to blow everything up. How is that an issue?
 
Where are the votes for San Jose?
They have a shallow prospect pool and tons of money tied up in aging stars that are on the decline. Vlasic, Karlsson(I know he's having a great year but still) and Couture just off the top of my head. I also haven't heard of anyone in their prospect pool really.
 
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