Value of: Which bad contract could the Leafs trade Tavares for?

[McShogun99]

Islanders have done fine without him. Somewhat telling.m

If you look at the body of work he’s a great player but cap dictates all. It’s tough to build the total package with an 8 figure player on the payroll, let alone 3 of them.

Leafs r fuk at the end of the day, luckily my team’s even worse so don’t @ me you zoomers.

Tavares wasn’t worth 11 million when they signed him but that’s the price you pay for high end UFAs. He brings a lot more then just points to a team. Toronto can’t afford to lose him because their center depth would be just Matthews.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

Marner needs to go now. Period. Gutless scared selfish kid.

 

[BlueBaron]

There’s still droves of leaf fans defending the Tavares signing

Amusing you think it needs to be defended. That's far funnier.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

While Tavares is not worth 11 million, that’s not the issue. The issue is they signed Johnny T before locking up Marner & Matthews for 8 years and for friendlier amounts which was on the table before John arrived.

IMO signing John @ 11m, playing him with Marner for a year and then signing Mitch was an amateur mistake. What did Toronto think? Mitch was gonna have a worse year playing with John - the guy exploded and fleeced Toronto for 10.5m. You have to be really dumb, sorry Dubas, to not see that one coming. Worse, then they could only get Matthews for 6 years and shortened the cup window by 2 years while being handcuffed by the cap. Shanny really messed this one up after a GREAT start here.

 

[Black Kevin]

Tavares hits the UFA market tomorrow. Will he sign for less than $10m aav? I say no.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Give you Kane for him

 

[MessierII]

Tavares hits the UFA market tomorrow. Will he sign for less than $10m aav? I say no.

Maybe but that doesnt justify it. The leafs didn’t need another top line forward. Especially not an 11 million dollar one.

 

[4thline]

While Tavares is not worth 11 million, that’s not the issue. The issue is they signed Johnny T before locking up Marner & Matthews for 8 years and for friendlier amounts which was on the table before John arrived.

The Tavares contract had no impact on those to M&M. Matthew's/ Moldaver's whole play was that he was a unicorn that could name his price (much higher than JT) and brought in McDavid's agent to hammer home that McD's deal was less than he could have gotten and not precedent setting.

Marner wanted whatever Matthews got because his ego tells him that he's just as good.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

The Tavares contract had no impact on those to M&M. Matthew's/ Moldaver's whole play was that he was a unicorn that could name his price (much higher than JT) and brought in McDavid's agent to hammer home that McD's deal was less than he could have gotten and not precedent setting.

Marner wanted whatever Matthews got because his ego tells him that he's just as good.

Sorry my friend, that’s not what happened.

The Leafs could have spent the summer they pursued JT, extending Marner & Matthews for max term deals, instead they rolled out the carpet for JT.

If you remember, the talk was getting Marner at 8 x 8.5m which people thought was insane, and they would get Matthews at 8 years at around McD money which people also thought was insane but we would take it.

Instead Toronto opted for JT at 11m. Marner’s agent Darren Ferris put the brakes on discussions and they decided to play a year with JT before continuing negotiations. Marner went from 69 points to 94 points and jumped about 2mm in salary. If you think JT had nothing to do with all of that, go back and read the ton of articles online that outline it better than I did.

Toronto made JT the fifth highest player in the league when they could have got Marner & Matthews at max term deals for less than they paid if they only negotiated the contracts a year earlier. Salary cap suicide.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Thanks to the terrible contract Dubas gave him, he can't be traded unless he agrees, and there's no way to get cap relief, by either sending him to the minors or buying him out.

If Dubas is making the trade, Leafs will end up with either a worse player on as bad a contract, or as bad a player on a worse contract.

He's not useless. He's good on faceoffs, and good within about 20 feet of the opponent's net. Best bet is to just bite the bullet on his lack of speed and poor passing and defensive play, and hope he retires early.

 

[Henkka]

Tavares for JvR + Kadri in a three or maybe four-way trade.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Amusing you think it needs to be defended. That's far funnier.

Worked out great eh?

 

[avsfan9]

I’d love to have Tavares on the avs. Give you EJ, Kadri and J.T Compher for him. Kind of reminds me of Sakic with his quiet leadership. Probably the best forward on the leafs. He is not your problem

 

[Apex Predator]

The Tavares contract had no impact on those to M&M. Matthew's/ Moldaver's whole play was that he was a unicorn that could name his price (much higher than JT) and brought in McDavid's agent to hammer home that McD's deal was less than he could have gotten and not precedent setting.

Marner wanted whatever Matthews got because his ego tells him that he's just as good.

Why at that point did Matthews think he can get whatever he wanted? On top of that why did the leafs cave and give him everything he wanted? If someone wanted to offer him 12-13 million the leafs should just take the 4 first round picks. In my opinion if any team is willing to offer a player something that will cost them 4 first rounds pick you say bye.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Oddly enough, the team that would have made the most sense IMO would have been the Habs but for many reasons. that's not going to happen. Again it's ironic that another team that makes in terms of organizational needs is the Sens but they are still potentially 2-3 years away from being a Tavares away from truly competing and so....... I don't really see another team.

Here's the problem. You need a playoff contending ish team (if not now then next year the latest because JT would have to be convinced to waive his NMC), who's looking for a number 1 center because they have good secondary scoring and great wingers, who can take on the 11 million hit for another four years and who also has the current depth of pro and/or prospect/picks depth that would be required for a deal to get done.

For a deal to make sense, the Leafs imo need some combination of legit second line center, a good winger, top ish end dman, and sprinkle a pick or two depending on what the other things are.

Maybe you can get a 1 for 1 deal ala Johansen/Jones or Hall/Larsson (I know, I know, but theoretically all the time at least one of those was a good idea for a deal), but I really can't see that happening.

But at the end of the day, I think what the Leafs need to accept is that for the good of the organization, they need to do a quality for quantity trade so long as that quantity also has some quality.

 

[4thline]

Why at that point did Matthews think he can get whatever he wanted? On top of that why did the leafs cave and give him everything he wanted? If someone wanted to offer him 12-13 million the leafs should just take the 4 first round picks. In my opinion if any team is willing to offer a player something that will cost them 4 first rounds pick you say bye.

But that's a silly opinion. Matthews has shown the ability to be a big part of making any team he's on at least middle of the pack. The picks are spread out over 4 years. We'd have used two of of those picks by now, and they'd likely be years out from helping.

And in any case, whether or not it should have worked, the point is that JT's contract played no role in driving up the ask.

 

[BlueBaron]

Worked out great eh?

Yeah it did, he's a point a game as a Leaf.....

 

[4thline]

Sorry my friend, that’s not what happened.

"Moldaver knew the Leafs' front-office representatives would outnumber him, so he asked his colleague Jeff Jackson, who represents the league's top player, Connor McDavid, to come with him for moral support. The Maple Leafs began their presentation by going through some comparables. Moldaver interrupted the conversation.
"Auston doesn't have comparables," Moldaver said. "Don't you understand? He's a unicorn.""

Auston Matthews is the NHL's must-see superstar

 

[gdsmack267]

Seth Jones who is worth about 1/3 of his deal

 

[Apex Predator]

But that's a silly opinion. Matthews has shown the ability to be a big part of making any team he's on at least middle of the pack. The picks are spread out over 4 years. We'd have used two of of those picks by now, and they'd likely be years out from helping.

And in any case, whether or not it should have worked, the point is that JT's contract played no role in driving up the ask.

its just an opinion. I don’t think it’s silly just like I don’t think your opinion is silly. We will obviously never know how it plays out.

 

[Apex Predator]

"Moldaver knew the Leafs' front-office representatives would outnumber him, so he asked his colleague Jeff Jackson, who represents the league's top player, Connor McDavid, to come with him for moral support. The Maple Leafs began their presentation by going through some comparables. Moldaver interrupted the conversation.
"Auston doesn't have comparables," Moldaver said. "Don't you understand? He's a unicorn.""

Auston Matthews is the NHL's must-see superstar

This is what I don’t understand? How was he a unicorn at that point with no comparables?

 

[4thline]

its just an opinion. I don’t think it’s silly just like I don’t think your opinion is silly. We will obviously never know how it plays out.

My apologies for the harshness. My bad.

But take any non bottom feeding teams last two first round picks, and ask yourself if you'd be happy sitting with them in our prospect pool with two more years of mid-late 1st rounders, and no Matthews. The value curve in the 1st round is insanely steep, the only way we'd win that is if the offering team fell flat on their face and gave us lottery pick(s)

 

[Apex Predator]

My apologies for the harshness. My bad.

But take any non bottom feeding teams last two first round picks, and ask yourself if you'd be happy sitting with them in our prospect pool with two more years of mid-late 1st rounders, and no Matthews. The value curve in the 1st round is insanely steep, the only way we'd win that is if the offering team fell flat on their face and gave us lottery pick(s)

That’s fair no harshness I understand your point of view.

 

[4thline]

This is what I don’t understand? How was he a unicorn at that point with no comparables?

From a hockey standpoint- Big goal scoring 1C. He'd have a good case that his only comparable (with him being less than) is McDavid, and he knows the contract McDavid signed doesn't reflect his true worth.

From a marketing standpoint- the above, plus being born in the American south, a compelling backstory, and a personality/inclination for pop culture that makes him far more interesting than most hockey players. He's not Gretzky, but put him in a US city with a good publicity department and you'd get a similar effect to what Wayne did to LA. Flashy kid that's one of the best in the game, willing to mix it up with celebrities, rags to riches- I'm sure Bettman absolutely hates that TO won that lottery.

 

[TS Quint]

He is better than people realize. Marner should be traded, not Tavares.

The Leafs lay the blame at Marner’s feet and as usual Leaf fans love an excuse. Just like the Leafs and their fans did to Babcock, Kadri and Andersson. How many excuses does Dubas get? Maybe you can’t just keep blaming one guy for the usual 2nd round tee time. Dubas is a completely unaccountable worm. For some reason he gets a pass from at least a large group of vocal Leafs fans on HF.

I didn’t like how Marner played in the playoffs last year. But I understood it. He saw the rest of his team doing sweet F all and he wanted to be the man who saved the team. It was unfortunate he went about it the wrong way. He was constantly trying to take on the whole other team, 1 on 2 turnover, 1 on 3 turnover. It was to the point it was obvious he was never going to pass the puck to try and enter the offensive zone. But for all of Marner’s warts last year in the playoffs effort wasn’t one of them. Sure, he was going about it the wrong way and that made him stick out. Give me that over Auston “the invisible man” Mathews who took very little flack in comparison.

Where was Keefe, Dubas’ boy, to direct Marner’s efforts? Just another wallflower afraid to speak to a player making 4x his salary. Where was Keefe to tell Marner to use his overpaid linemates? Mix up a pass at or before the blue line once in a while. Didn’t happen. Keefe just stands there holding up the glass behind him.

Give me give me the player who is trying too much than all those passengers who were invisible.