Where Does Auston Matthews Rank For You As A Goal Scorer All Time?

[ChrisProngersEYE]

He currently has 336 goals in 523 games with his goals per game being 5th all time at .642, he is at 175th all time and should move up to 146th with 22 goals in his remaining remaining 39 games.

If Matthews wins the rocket, In NHL history the following have won the goal scoring leader three times: Babe Dye, Charlie Conacher, Maurice Richard, Gordie Howe, Jean Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Phil Esposito, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Brett Hull, Teemu Selanne, Pavel Bure, Ovechkin

Is he top 20 already? Peering into top 10?

He currently does not rank for me since he does not have a Cup. Price of admission is having a cup.

 

[authentic]

One of the best in his Era is the way I think you have to view it with how much the game changes over the years.

Putting players like Lemieux, Bure and Hull in today's NHL with no red line rule,3 on 3 overtime and having today sticks technology would be interesting to see their stats.

It would be interesting for sure but the most logical conclusion is that they would score less seeing as how it was still much easier to score in the 80s and early 90s.

 

[authentic]

I'm skeptical of the takeaway stats for that reason. There's inconsistency from one arena to another.

From 2020 to today, Matthews averaged 3.58 takeaways/60 at home vs only 2.48 takeaways/60 on the road. Generally players perform better while at home, so we'd expect a bit of a dropoff, but not >30%.

The same is true for others Leafs. The home/away split is 3.60/2.23 for Marner, 2.16/1.34 for Tavares, and 3.10/1.84 for Nylander.

Besides, there's only so much value in takeaways. If you're taking the puck away a lot, it means the opponent must be in possession of the puck a lot. Bergeron's takeaway numbers aren't overly impressive, probably because when he's on the ice, the Bruins are in possession of the puck the majority of the time.

Yeah but tons of great defensive players are high in takeaways though, Bergeron is sort of the exception there. Datsyuk had tons of takeaways, was Detroit not in possession of the puck very often?

Also helps that he has better individual defensive and advanced stats across the board than a recent Selke winner Barkov, over the course of the past 5 seasons. Haven’t checked them this season yet but this was from 2019 until the end of last season. Then if you watched the Tampa series last year you might’ve noticed how he helped hold Tampa to zero shots on net while he was on the ice in a game that went to OT with Matthews logging 24+ minutes. He is quite clearly one of the elite two-way players in the game and people just love to find reasons to pretend he’s not.

 

[Auston Marlander]

Lol if he keeps this up for another 10+ years he’ll be the best goal scorer of all-time. Gretzky led the NHL in goals 5 times, Ovechkin 9. Unless by keep this up you meant just age exceptionally well, because if he continues being the best goal scorer in the game then he’ll have best goal scorer locked up before 10 years.

Sorry should have been clearer. Keep it up means age well and continue to score at a high pace, not score as many as he has the last few years. Say Average around 40 a year, putting him in the 800 goal range.

 

[LivingRentFree]

this is a reality solely in the minds of Leaf fans

If he was the best goal scorer and also the best defensive forward in the league the team would be a lot more successful

One player doesn’t win cups.

 

[yeaher]

Bossy
Gretzky
Ovi
Lemieux
Hull
Espo
Jagr
Sakic
Selanne
then Matthews

Matthews has the potential to move up a long way when he starts scoring important goals. Like OT GWG in the playoffs

 

[Beau Knows]

Bossy
Gretzky
Ovi
Lemieux
Hull
Espo
Jagr
Sakic
Selanne
then Matthews

Matthews has the potential to move up a long way when he starts scoring important goals. Like OT GWG in the playoffs

I get your point that he needs to play better in the playoffs, but the guy at #3 on your list has not scored a single playoff OT goal. And even Gretzky only had 4 of them.

 

[yeaher]

I get your point that he needs to play better in the playoffs, but the guy at #3 on your list has not scored a single playoff OT goal. And even Gretzky only had 4 of them.

Well he better score about 500 more and win a cup or he is going to continue to deal with the criticism Ovi faced over his entire career until they did win.

 

[Coffey]

Hey man, we all know that McDavid is the best player in the world, and nobody is taking that title from him. Sometimes we like to poke at it for fun, but we all know the truth.

Nah not you. Haha There are some actual psychos here

 

[authentic]

One player doesn’t win cups.

Lol it’s so funny how people can’t admit he’s a good defensive player. Obviously not the best in the league but among high scoring forwards who is really better?

 

[bobholly39]

My top 10 greatest goal-scorers of all time are:

Tier 1:

Ovechkin/Gretzky/Lemieux/Bobby Hull. That's the top 4, probably in that order, but could probably be argued among the 4.

To me, there's almost no chance Matthews reaches it. Why? Because it would require ageing as well as Ovechkin as a goal-scorer. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible, but seems extremely unlikely. Most of all - it's simply too soon to tell. It won't be until he's age 30 and 31 and 32 that we'll get a sense of if it's possibe or not.

Tier 2:

Maurice Richard/Gordie Howe. They are #5 and 6, again in that order, though could probably be inverted.

Again - very unlikely Auston Matthews will reach or surpass either of them. It's a bit more attainable than the top 4 maybe, but he's still very far away, and unless he ages like Ovechkin or very close, he probably doesn't reach this high.

Tier 3:

Bossy/Brett Hull/Esposito/Bure. Probably in that order for slots 7-10.

To me - this is the tier Matthews is most likely to reach. Not only that - but I'll say he will certainly displace Bure all time for #10 in my book, short of some career ending injury very soon.

Esposito/Hull/Bossy will be harder to surpass. I think it's possible, but it's on the upper end of likelihoods.

Bossy had a short career maybe, but his strength is not only regular season but also playoffs. Which is also Matthews's greatest weakness so far. Even as a goal-scorer, he is quite weak for playoffs - he'll have to put up some more numbers there if he wants to climb ranks all-time.

Short answer - I have no idea where Matthews ranks today, but he will almost definitely finish at least #10 all-time for me. #7-9 is also plausible, but harder. Anything higher is quite unlikely, though not impossible.

 

[Martin Skoula]

This thread is about goal scoring. If you want to mention defensive game, are you willing to hear how terrible he's at playmaking — given that he's a highly touted franchise center with a top-3 highest paycheck?

Is this just based on stat watching? If he gains the zone, makes a good pass, and then roofs the resulting rebound he doesn’t get an assist even though he made some good plays to create the scoring chance. Primary assists and any micro stats around pass completion to danger zones are fine, he just doesn’t get any secondaries because of how and where he’s used on the breakout and PP.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Matthews is a much better scorer than Ovechkin.

He scores more goals in fewer shots.

SCPT
Matthews 16.1%
Ovechkin 12.8%

I have a hard time awarding the title of top scorer to a guy who is not in the top 40 of active players in success percentage. Bossy, Le Mieux were among the best. Matthews is 7th.

 

[myleafs]

Lemieux was the best goal scorer ever. No one else in history could’ve retired for over 3 years and score 35 goals in 43 games at 35, let alone during the dead puck era. Even Gretzky himself would have trouble scoring more than that if he was in his prime in 2001. I think that alone solidified him as the best goal scorer to me, but Ovechkin and Gretzky will always remain greater due to health.

Bossey scoring 50+ in his first 9 years in the league is pretty amazing as well and he was on pace for over 50 in his 10th yr but had brutal back issues and had to hang them up. What is crazier to me is when he got picked by the Isles he met with the GM and said he was going to score 50 ten years straight and the gm said just make the team.

 

[ZDH]

As a goal scorer? High up there

As a player? Way down there

 

[Channelcat]

Not top 50, but probably will be by the time he retires.

 

[Devilmademedoit]

He need at least 3 50 goal seasons to get into the conversation

 

[Hockey Outsider]

My top 10 greatest goal-scorers of all time are:

Tier 1:

Ovechkin/Gretzky/Lemieux/Bobby Hull. That's the top 4, probably in that order, but could probably be argued among the 4.

To me, there's almost no chance Matthews reaches it. Why? Because it would require ageing as well as Ovechkin as a goal-scorer. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible, but seems extremely unlikely. Most of all - it's simply too soon to tell. It won't be until he's age 30 and 31 and 32 that we'll get a sense of if it's possibe or not.

Tier 2:

Maurice Richard/Gordie Howe. They are #5 and 6, again in that order, though could probably be inverted.

Again - very unlikely Auston Matthews will reach or surpass either of them. It's a bit more attainable than the top 4 maybe, but he's still very far away, and unless he ages like Ovechkin or very close, he probably doesn't reach this high.

Tier 3:

Bossy/Brett Hull/Esposito/Bure. Probably in that order for slots 7-10.

To me - this is the tier Matthews is most likely to reach. Not only that - but I'll say he will certainly displace Bure all time for #10 in my book, short of some career ending injury very soon.

Esposito/Hull/Bossy will be harder to surpass. I think it's possible, but it's on the upper end of likelihoods.

Bossy had a short career maybe, but his strength is not only regular season but also playoffs. Which is also Matthews's greatest weakness so far. Even as a goal-scorer, he is quite weak for playoffs - he'll have to put up some more numbers there if he wants to climb ranks all-time.

Short answer - I have no idea where Matthews ranks today, but he will almost definitely finish at least #10 all-time for me. #7-9 is also plausible, but harder. Anything higher is quite unlikely, though not impossible.

This is pretty close to how I have it.

The top six (in chronological order) are Richard, Howe, Hull (senior), Gretzky, Lemieux and Ovechkin. I'm fairly sure Ovechkin is first, and I'm fairly sure Richard is last. But I go back and forth on the order for the other four.

The next three, in some order, are Esposito, Bossy and Hull (junior). Those are, as far as I'm concerned, the clear top nine greatest goal-scorers all-time.

Who gets the 10th spot? There's a ton of other candidates - Stamkos and Kovalchuk (post-lockout players - both of whom could have done more), Jagr and Selanne (DPE era players with high peaks and huge career totals), Bure and Lafleur (high peak and artistry, despite lower career totals), Beliveau and Geoffrion (Original Six era), and perhaps Conacher and Stewart (pre-WWII hockey). I think Matthews pretty clearly isn't there today (only 22 playoff goals, and only four top ten finishes are knocks against him), but he definitely could climb into 10th place (or higher).

 

[authentic]

This is why he gets dragged on here

Everyone is basically agreeing that he’s the best goal scorer in the league but that’s just not enough for some people. You have to make up this myth about him as an all around player.

He’s a great goal scorer, the rest of his game leaves a lot to be desired

Lol a myth?

 

[Ignite111]

1

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Right now, slightly ahead of Mike Gartner...

 

[Sentinel]

Bossy
Gretzky
Ovi
Lemieux
Hull
Espo
Jagr
Sakic
Selanne
then Matthews

Matthews has the potential to move up a long way when he starts scoring important goals. Like OT GWG in the playoffs

No Brett Hull? No Kurri? No Bure??

Gretzky >>> Bossy

 

[authentic]

Bossey scoring 50+ in his first 9 years in the league is pretty amazing as well and he was on pace for over 50 in his 10th yr but had brutal back issues and had to hang them up. What is crazier to me is when he got picked by the Isles he met with the GM and said he was going to score 50 ten years straight and the gm said just make the team.

Yeah and really the most impressive thing about him were his 3 straight playoff runs of 17 goals, twice in 19 games and the other in 18. Highest scoring era or not very few would've been able to pull that off.

 

[kugelbahn]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Here is a graph of 60 goals scorers pace over 82 games.
Mathews (blue) started his second 60 goals peak, McD (black) is back to 40s, OV (red) is slumping to 30.
Mathews has a long road ahead to match OV, but for now he is on par at respective point of careers.

 

[Jabba11]

Mike Bossy definitely is the greatest goalscorer of all time.

Matthews has a long way to go but, even if I hate him, he should end up pretty high on the list. Top 10 eventually if he keeps scoring at this pace.