Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[DanielMarois]

Also, my rebuttal to the guys saying DRWs don't have elite talent. If 'elite' means McDavid, Matthew, McKinnon, then you're right. But you're wrong thinking you 'need' them. Wings have star players in the making in Seider and Raymond, and we still have some up-and-coming talent in the system. Where those guys top out is a guess.

Yzerman seems comfortable with these kids. Oh, and by the way, he only has Lidstrom, Kronwall, Fischer, Draper, Cleary telling him how these kids are progressing. My gut tells me Yzerman's guys who are overseeing these kids development might be pretty damn well cued in on what we have.

So being "bored" with the rebuild might be merely "Yzerman thinks they have the right kids to push for a cup" in the system who are on an upward trajectory.

How not to build a cup winning team; Toronto Maple Leafs.
How to build a cup winning team; smothering SOB team to play against.

....but the internet message forum says "you need a McDavid to win a cup", even though facts and past cup winning champions show that is almost always not true. A good goalie is more important to have than a McDavid or a Matthews. ....and Cossa and Augustine are looking pretty g'dam good!

Outside of St.Louis, all the event Cup winners with good goaltending and tough to play against had at least a #2 overall pick on the roster. How many years has Nashville had good goaltending and been tough to play against? I am not necessarily saying the Wings should have tanked more, the evidence is pretty clear that elite talent is still very crucial.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Also, my rebuttal to the guys saying DRWs don't have elite talent. If 'elite' means McDavid, Matthew, McKinnon, then you're right. But you're wrong thinking you 'need' them. Wings have star players in the making in Seider and Raymond, and we still have some up-and-coming talent in the system. Where those guys top out is a guess.

Yzerman seems comfortable with these kids. Oh, and by the way, he only has Lidstrom, Kronwall, Fischer, Draper, Cleary telling him how these kids are progressing. My gut tells me Yzerman's guys who are overseeing these kids development might be pretty damn well cued in on what we have.

So being "bored" with the rebuild might be merely "Yzerman thinks they have the right kids to push for a cup" in the system who are on an upward trajectory.

How not to build a cup winning team; Toronto Maple Leafs.
How to build a cup winning team; smothering SOB team to play against.

....but the internet message forum says "you need a McDavid to win a cup", even though facts and past cup winning champions show that is almost always not true. A good goalie is more important to have than a McDavid or a Matthews. ....and Cossa and Augustine are looking pretty g'dam good!

How many perennial cup winning teams DIDNT have elite talent exactly?

 

[Dotter]

Cup winners with good goaltending and tough to play against had at least a #2 overall pick on the roster.

I'd argue DRWs have two #2 overall pick talent on the roster; Seider and Raymond.

 

[Dotter]

How many perennial cup winning teams DIDNT have elite talent exactly?

Look back no further than the previous 2 cup winners....

Seems to becoming the new norm with small salary cap increases and more NHL teams entering the league.

 

[Frobbo]

^ lazy comparison., if not a bit insulting.

Don't disagree that being compared to the Wild could be interpreted as insulting by some. Tell me what equivilants are off. Its lazy to call something lazy without explaining.

 

[lidstromiscool]

How not to build a cup winning team; Toronto Maple Leafs.
How to build a cup winning team; smothering SOB team to play against.

It's funny because Detroit was known as a team that was one of the easiest teams to play against last year.

 

[raymond23]

It's funny because Detroit was known as a team that was one of the easiest teams to play against last year.

Quite the opposite when they had their 1C in the lineup...

 

[lidstromiscool]

Quite the opposite when they had their 1C in the lineup...

It's not because of how good they were, its what I heard from people around the league

 

[Dotter]

Don't disagree that being compared to the Wild could be interpreted as insulting by some. Tell me what equivilants are off. Its lazy to call something lazy without explaining.

You need me to grade your report?

You wrote: "There are a lot of equivilancies between the two roster's pipelines/youth. Some favor the RWs some the Wild.
Larkin/Kaprizov <-- Kaprizov is a winger, Larkin is a center
Wallstadt/Cossa-Augustine <-- two outstanding goalies vs meh"

Then you failed to mention kids who are making the jump to the NHL next season; Albert Johansson, Berggren, Mazur (likely playing next season) and maybe even Soderbom. Perhaps you were purposefully keeping the depth off your list as you couldn't find some obscure comparisons for them?

Also, are you trying to compare PPG or style of players? Some comparisons seem odd.

I feel like you are pounding a round peg in a square hole while yelling "see, it fits!"

 

[Oddbob]

Quite the opposite when they had their 1C in the lineup...

I don't think we were anything close to a tough to play against team. We have virtually no physicality outside Seider, Fischer and Chiarot, and the physical side is what makes teams tough to play against. Then add that we aren't good defensively at all. You need toughness and defence to be hard to play against and we lack major in both.

 

[FMichael]

I don't think we were anything close to a tough to play against team. We have virtually no physicality outside Seider, Fischer and Chiarot, and the physical side is what makes teams tough to play against. Then add that we aren't good defensively at all. You need toughness and defence to be hard to play against and we lack major in both.

Indeed!

It was a blessing the Wings didn't make the playoffs in the sense that it saved our guys the embarrassment.

 

[Imgoingtowork]

Washington got Ovechkin and Backstrom

The Swede Bäckström is tired last six seasons.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Look back no further than the previous 2 cup winners....

Seems to becoming the new norm with small salary cap increases and more NHL teams entering the league.

Which club has won multiple cups? I can't see SY wanting a one and done situation...besides, Florida has multiple "elite" players in Barkov, Tkachuk and Bobrovosky

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I don't think we were anything close to a tough to play against team. We have virtually no physicality outside Seider, Fischer and Chiarot, and the physical side is what makes teams tough to play against. Then add that we aren't good defensively at all. You need toughness and defence to be hard to play against and we lack major in both.

I mean, yes and no. Physicality is a PART of what would make you difficult to play against.

Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Zetterberg were not remotely what I'd call physical, but each was an absolute bitch to play against.

Kris Draper wasn't either and teams hated mucking it up with him.

Glendening too. He was as vanilla a player as you could be, but until he went out against Tampa, the Wings were taking that series that went to 7 that they lost.

The Wings were relatively easy to play against last year and were exceptionally easy to play against when Larkin went down... because they were overall a pretty slow team without much physicality that was also not skilled at stickwork. There are a dozen ways you can be a bitch to play against... the Wings just didn't have much of any of them last year.

 

[Snuggs]

Indeed!

It was a blessing the Wings didn't make the playoffs in the sense that it saved our guys the embarrassment.

Lol, Rebuild 4ever!

 

[Euro Twins]

Outside of St.Louis, all the event Cup winners with good goaltending and tough to play against had at least a #2 overall pick on the roster. How many years has Nashville had good goaltending and been tough to play against? I am not necessarily saying the Wings should have tanked more, the evidence is pretty clear that elite talent is still very crucial.

Do we not have a #1 overall pick on our roster?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Do we not have a #1 overall pick on our roster?

Yes... because signing Patrick Kane 15 years into his career is what people mean when they say "#1 pick on the roster". You're technically right, but come the f*** on, dude.

 

[Ezekial]

It's not because of how good they were, its what I heard from people around the league

Must be why we had the 2nd most 3rd period comeback wins, teams let their guard down.

 

[Euro Twins]

Yes... because signing Patrick Kane 15 years into his career is what people mean when they say "#1 pick on the roster". You're technically right, but come the f*** on, dude.

Oh so we have the top draft pick. Just not the one YOU want. So we should probably just tear it down. Got it

 

[Winger98]

Yes... because signing Patrick Kane 15 years into his career is what people mean when they say "#1 pick on the roster". You're technically right, but come the f*** on, dude.

I'd have to go back and look but when people keep hauling up that stat about x number of cup winners had a top3 pick, it feels like a few get by on such technicalities. It's either some older guy they traded for or a guy they picked but was a middle6 forward while much later picks were the actual work horses.

 

[norrisnick]

I'd have to go back and look but when people keep hauling up that stat about x number of cup winners had a top3 pick, it feels like a few get by on such technicalities. It's either some older guy they traded for or a guy they picked but was a middle6 forward while much later picks were the actual work horses.

I mean, the one for the Wings in '08 was Brad Stuart. Important, but maybe top 10 on that team? Same with the Blues and Bouwmeester.

 

[Frk It]

It's funny because Detroit was known as a team that was one of the easiest teams to play against last year.

They are building a hard team to play against. Not all the players are on the roster or up to speed yet.

Kasper, Danielson, MBN, Mazur

Edvinsson wasn’t on the team for 90% of last year and will need plenty of time to get acclimated.

Etc etc

 

[lilidk]

They are building a hard team to play against. Not all the players are on the roster or up to speed yet.

Kasper, Danielson, MBN, Mazur

Edvinsson wasn’t on the team for 90% of last year and will need plenty of time to get acclimated.

Etc etc

It was big mistake not letting Edvinsson play full season, also AJo, and Mazur should have some games played for Red Wings

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Oh so we have the top draft pick. Just not the one YOU want. So we should probably just tear it down. Got it

Are you being serious right now? I have NEVER promoted tanking as the way to get good. I just think it's intellectually dishonest to say "Hey, we have a #1OA pick, we should be great and/or it checks off a box for a Cup winner!" when the 1OA we have is 35 years old and coming off a massive hip injury that he actually recovered from pretty well.

The Wings are doing what I think is a very good job building a roster that should be solid for a very long time and compete when they finally get some luck and pucks bounce their way. Their cap structure is close to immaculate after half a decade of being absolute shit, so now the roster needs to develop and they need to get some reinforcements through draft, FA, and trades.

 

[Dotter]

Which club has won multiple cups? I can't see SY wanting a one and done situation...besides, Florida has multiple "elite" players in Barkov, Tkachuk and Bobrovosky

Why are you moving the goalposts? Winning multiple cups is a big feat in this NHL era.

80 point Barkov is ELITE? Tkcachuk is elite??? Didn't Flames basically give him away? Bobrovosky basically HAS Chris Osgood numbers and nobody calls Osgood "ELITE".

Your definition of 'elite' is very loose. Hard to take your argument seriously.

Yzerman can use FLA as a blueprint on how to build his DRWs team with the resources he has. He does not need to tank, but rather make some moves when the timing is right. If Cossa turns out and a good trade happens along with our top prospects becoming as advertised, Yzerman will have this team well on it's way to compete for a cup. I feel like Yzerman has this team close to striking distance as he injects more kids.

But you want to talk about Detroit becoming another almighty Dynasty in the nu:NHL where that's nearly impossible. Perhaps you should set realistic expectations so you're not constantly disappointed. Take a breath and enjoy life. Wings are on their way up, but the days of being 'world beaters' are gone! Bettman ensured those days are over.