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When does Zibanejad sign, and for how much?

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Off Sides said:
If they could get the Tyler Johnson contract I'd be good with that. It would include two RFA years instead of one, but also the tax difference, pretty much a wash. Clauses the same too.
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Tax difference is not negligible, if Mika lived in Manhattan he would be paying 12.8% extra in income tax. That makes Johnson's 5M AAV contract worth 5.6M in nyc
 
GordonGecko said:
Tax difference is not negligible, if Mika lived in Manhattan he would be paying 12.8% extra in income tax. That makes Johnson's 5M AAV contract worth 5.6M in nyc
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He only pays NYC tax in home games.

There are benefits to playing in NYC as well such as promtotions.
If players want to play in NYC/MSG they will have to deal with NYC insane tax policies. Ditto for LA. Most cities/states are not like them.
 
6 year deals should only be given by us to elite significant injury free players in my opinion. 4-5 years is plenty long. A low percentage of players stay with us for 6 years.
 
NickyFotiu said:
He only pays NYC tax in home games.
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I don't think that's right, the 3.8% city income tax applies to residents. A player like Malkin who comes in and plays the garden would not pay that city tax (commuters have not paid city tax in many years), but he may have to pay the New York State tax of 8.8%
 
GordonGecko said:
I don't think that's right, the 3.8% city income tax applies to residents. A player like Malkin who comes in and plays the garden would not pay that city tax (commuters have not paid city tax in many years), but he may have to pay the New York State tax of 8.8%
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If our guys have to pay NYC taxes for all games then they are doubly taxed for the taxes they pays on the road in other cities that charge them tax. That would seem very unfair unless one cities were deductible. Still 3.8% is a far cry from the previously mentioned 12.8%. I think NYC and LA taxes are insane but that is the price people willing pay to live there or work there. There are benefits as well.

Teams pay the city directly and withhold income from players' checks. City jock taxes come in addition to state jock taxes — so Pennsylvania's 3.07% state income tax is added to Pittsburgh's 3% flat fee for a blended tax rate of more than 6%, Packard says. City taxes are typically not credited on state returns, he explains, though an exception is New Jersey, which allows credits for city taxes paid in Philadelphia.
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GordonGecko said:
Tax difference is not negligible, if Mika lived in Manhattan he would be paying 12.8% extra in income tax. That makes Johnson's 5M AAV contract worth 5.6M in nyc
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Agreed! idk why people keep brushing that off...

There's a calculator on Cap Friendly to see what percentage additional you would make if you played for other teams. Look at Johnson's here. His contract takes a massive hit if he plays in NYC.

https://www.capfriendly.com/post_tax_calculator/tyler-johnson
 
TheTakedown said:
Agreed! idk why people keep brushing that off...

There's a calculator on Cap Friendly to see what percentage additional you would make if you played for other teams. Look at Johnson's here. His contract takes a massive hit if he plays in NYC.

https://www.capfriendly.com/post_tax_calculator/tyler-johnson
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A lot of these things online are overly simplistic regarding rates. NYC/LA taxes are insane but when comparing all the other pro teams to each other teams with lower state income tax often have a higher combination of sales/property taxes. Just because a state is income tax free that doesn't equate to tax free. While there are tax benefits in some states in comparison to others, states with no income tax do not magically pay for all their expenses with no taxes. All states must pay their bills with taxes. They just collect them in different ways. I lived in NY. I live in a income tax free state now. I still pay a lot of taxes.
 
Still a day to go but the longer this drags on, the more I think the Zib camp wants a 4 year shorter deal so he can hit the UFA market in his prime and get paid the schmuckeroos at 28 years old while management is trying to work toward a 5-7 year deal.
 
There is risk both ways for both parties, just depends on the compromise to make both parties feel more secure.

Without knowing anything it's possible Zbad does not want to sell UFA years, or that many, or that cheaply and feels the risk of injury or poor play does not warrant taking less than he possibly could get by going shorter term. He at 26 on the open market as a full fledged UFA, that is a big contract for him if he is healthy and plays well between now and then.

Also possible he does want more total contract money and is willing to leave some possible career money on the table.

ROR went one way, he got his big contract by risking injury over several short term deals. Tyler Johnson just went the other way and gave up what could be more career money by taking term.

Kreider sold only one UFA year to the Rangers. He likely wanted to be a UFA at 28 instead of 29 or 30. Or the Rangers maybe only offered to buy only one at the price he wanted.

Stepan wanted a long term off his entry level, Rangers did not want to do it at his price, so they bridged, than he received a much larger deal the next time.

Point being it's all a compromise, risk for all.

Including as many RFA years as possible into a long term deal which also includes UFA years lowers the cap hit, player is safe there. The team gets a lower cap hit but risks the injury or poor play.

Add in clauses... There is no cookie cutter solution.
 
Lorb said:
Still a day to go but the longer this drags on, the more I think the Zib camp wants a 4 year shorter deal so he can hit the UFA market in his prime and get paid the schmuckeroos at 28 years old while management is trying to work toward a 5-7 year deal.
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I would be very surprised if Mika was thinking that way. I think he likes being a NYR and would love the security of guaranteed money. He already has had concussions and leg injuries so 25 mill should bring a lifetime of security.

With that said if any of our players would rather be a UFA (like Cally) than stay a NYR then they are not the nucleus we want on this team.
 
NickyFotiu said:
Still 3.8% is a far cry from the previously mentioned 12.8%.
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Tampa: city tax + state tax = 0%
NYC: city tax + state tax = 12.696%
New York Burbs (except Yonkers): state tax only = 8.82%

NickyFotiu said:
often have a higher combination of sales/property taxes
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Now you're looking at the expense side. I think it's fair to level the playing field on the income side. What players do with their take home is at their discretion but they have no discretion in how much a city or state takes away, which leads to a massive competitive advantage for teams like Tampa
 
As you guys discuss Mikas contract regarding taxes, don't forget his swedish taxes. Assuming he lives there during the off season and declares it his primary residence (citizenship purposes), he pays not only all of the NYC and federal taxes in the US, but also a 25% federal swedish tax. Poor kid...
 
Griffinbw said:
As you guys discuss Mikas contract regarding taxes, don't forget his swedish taxes. Assuming he lives there during the off season and declares it his primary residence (citizenship purposes), he pays not only all of the NYC and federal taxes in the US, but also a 25% federal swedish tax. Poor kid...
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Sweden has a tax treaty with the US, if he does have to pay Swedish taxes it would be deductible against his US taxes
 
GordonGecko said:
Tampa: city tax + state tax = 0%
NYC: city tax + state tax = 12.696%
New York Burbs (except Yonkers): state tax only = 8.82%


Now you're looking at the expense side. I think it's fair to level the playing field on the income side. What players do with their take home is at their discretion but they have no discretion in how much a city or state takes away, which leads to a massive competitive advantage for teams like Tampa
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I do not think it is as cut and dry as you guys say. If that was the case we would have a flood of UFA heading to Florida in all professional sports and ignoring NY like the plague. There are definitely some tax advantages to being in Florida (and other states not just Florida). There are definitely tax disadvantages to being in NY but I do think you guys are stating things at the absolute worse. As a person that has lived in NY, TX, and Florida I might have some experience.
 
NickyFotiu said:
I do not think it is as cut and dry as you guys say. If that was the case we would have a flood of UFA heading to Florida in all professional sports and ignoring NY like the plague. There are definitely some tax advantages to being in Florida (and other states not just Florida). There are definitely tax disadvantages to being in NY but I do think you guys are stating things at the absolute worse. As a person that has lived in NY, TX, and Florida I might have some experience.
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It's definitely not cut and dry, there are jock taxes in states like California for visiting players, but it's far from rocket science a qualified accountant or tax lawyer could come up with an accurate tax burden for any given player based on residency and playing schedule. A team should be allowed to offer any player a cap-exempt bonus equal to that extra tax burden. It's the only fair way

Of course not everyone flocks to tax havens, there are so many other factors like coaching staff, quality of life/preference, chances of winning, fit, etc etc.

But for players that are already on a team like Tampa, they can be signed at a discount to market giving the Bolts more money to get/keep better quality players
 
There are also a lot of opportunities to earn additional income through endorsements and such that may not be nearly as abundant or lucrative in markets outside of places like NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, etc. I think it evens itself out.

We've obviously never had a problem selling players on signing with us and I don't know that there's been any "NYC premium" on the contract that makes it more expensive for us than others. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall seeing it.
 
GordonGecko said:
It's definitely not cut and dry, there are jock taxes in states like California for visiting players, but it's far from rocket science a qualified accountant or tax lawyer could come up with an accurate tax burden for any given player based on residency and playing schedule. A team should be allowed to offer any player a cap-exempt bonus equal to that extra tax burden. It's the only fair way

Of course not everyone flocks to tax havens, there are so many other factors like coaching staff, quality of life/preference, chances of winning, fit, etc etc.

But for players that are already on a team like Tampa, they can be signed at a discount to market giving the Bolts more money to get/keep better quality players
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I agree that the tax situation definitely does not hurt the Lightenings case when it comes to re-signing guys that already enjoy living in those cities like Tampa.

There are some players that love NYC and will take a discount to be here. They might figure to make some back in promotions. There are other players that hate NYC and would take a discount to get out of here.
 
NickyFotiu said:
6 year deals should only be given by us to elite significant injury free players in my opinion. 4-5 years is plenty long. A low percentage of players stay with us for 6 years.
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I disagree here, if the league were to change the rules to limit these long deals, that's one thing. But right now you have to be smart about your cap and minimize paying near UFA $ to players after bridge deals. There definitely isn't a single policy that should be applied to all. Zib is a 24 yo center that produces at 2C levels, righty shot, he's a very valuable asset you definitely look to lock up 5-6 years now. Once guys get into their mid 20's and up, then 3-4 deals make more sense. Skjei is another example you lockup to 6 year deal ala McDonagh even this summer if possible.

The front office should be spending a lot of time analyzing young players on ELC's or bride deals, and be locking certain players that could identify as core pieces to long terms deals sooner. If they do their job they can get max value and save $cap dollars locking up players through their prime. They must go away from paying older players for prior success, this is old way of thinking that doesn't work in a cap system. Centers and D have most value and can be hardest to replace, that's a good start in identifying who should be locked up early.

McDonagh's deal was a smart move, Stepan's deal should've been identical at that time, the smart people around here who wanted that are now proven right. Skjei is a key example. Zib is definitely another candidate to lock up early and for long.
 
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