When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

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Yzerman signed those FAs to push you over the edge into contention and 3 years after his shopping spree has nothing to show for it. Now most of them have negative value and aren't actually helping with the "process" in any way. Yet you are using the fact that they might accumulate enough talent to get into the playoffs over 10 years as some kind of redeeming feature.

Yes, if you have 0 expectations this rebuild is right on track since you will get something eventually with multiple first-round picks every year.
You're the broken record who refuses to see the forest for the trees. They had to sign gap fillers. They signed replacement level players that literally are place holders for the kids as the kids show they're ready.

They weren't signed to push them over the top, that's a YOU narrative not a real thing.
Stop making bullshit up.
 
Unfortunate reality is that not all UFAs want to play on a rebuild and they might make more $$$ on a better team...Such is life when filling holes until the 'kids' are ready 😞
This is a shit excuse. Every other rebuilding team has managed to sign better free agents.
 
This is a shit excuse. Every other rebuilding team has managed to sign better free agents.
Do you understand how UFA works?

Do you have any inside information?

This idea of “free agents - he shall be ours to sign” doesn’t always work that way - look no further than Luongo turning down an offer sheet from Detroit back in 2006.
 
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Wait, so you use an example of a 2016 pick Bratt to show us Yzerman needs to draft better?

1). Ken Holland drafted Filip Hronek in the 2nd round that year [2016] who is more valuable than Bratt. So, ummm... there's that.

2). Then you used an example of a 1st round pick (18th overall) in Mercer, when Yzerman selected a better player in the 1st round Lucas Raymond. - I'll keep Raymond, but thanks tho!

3). Then you used an example of Casey who has a whopping 8 NHL games played.

Jesus, man!
In what world Hronek is more valuable than Bratt?

Bratt would be instantly the best forward in Detroit. Tell me you don't watch a single game of NJ without telling me you don't watch....
 
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Wait, so you use an example of a 2016 pick Bratt to show us Yzerman needs to draft better?

1). Ken Holland drafted Filip Hronek in the 2nd round that year [2016] who is more valuable than Bratt. So, ummm... there's that.

2). Then you used an example of a 1st round pick (18th overall) in Mercer, when Yzerman selected a better player in the 1st round Lucas Raymond. - I'll keep Raymond, but thanks tho!

3). Then you used an example of Casey who has a whopping 8 NHL games played.

Jesus, man!
Maybe Yzerman should've kept Hronek then! You're just completely missing the point of my post though. It's not that Yzemran has drafted particularly poorly or NJ has drafted particularly well (of which I think both are debatable). It's that in addition to getting lucky in the lottery (which GMs can't control) NJ has been able to supplement the core of the roster with players who have to varying degrees outperformed expectations and acquisition cost (which GMs can).

Is there a single guy in any role on the roster that you can point to and say "that was a great pickup"? There's no late round pick that has blossomed into a solid bottom pair guy. There's no vet UFA that outperformed expectations and was able to be sold at the deadline. No buy-low young reclamation project that maybe lost their way with another team but was put in the right environment to flourish. No late-blooming AHLer that managed to carve out a solid 4w slot later in their career.

Yes, these types of players aren't as important to driving team success as the MacKinnons and McDavids of the world. They certainly add up however, and are much more a direct reflection of a GMs ability.
 
Do you understand how UFA works?

Do you have any inside information?

This idea of “free agents - he shall be ours to sign” doesn’t always work that way - look no further than Luongo turning down an offer sheet from Detroit back in 2006.
If you want to believe that Yzerman is infallible and it is purely outside forces colluding to force him to sign some of the worst FA contracts of the past 5 years, that's your prerogative. Every other team at the bottom has figured out how to add better talent than Yzerman. Montreal added Laine, taking a chance on him. CBJ signed Monahan. The Hawks signed Bertuzzi and Teravainen, and to lesser extent Brodie. The Sharks signed Toffoli. We are the only bottom feeder that fills the roster with players that are 3rd liners or 3rd pairing dmen at their absolute best.

Either sign guys worth a shit, or if none of those guys want to play here, then sign 1-2 fillers (not 5-6 fillers) and promote the kids to fill the rest of the roster.

The front office fanfare will come in and say "oh so you want them to let the kids flounder and end up like Buffalo?" No, I don't want that. But right now we are bottom 4 in the entire league. Can you explain to me how our approach is in any way better than letting the kids flounder? We're still floundering, except this group of players has 0 ability to get better, because they are all washed-up has-beens.

Danielson should be up within 2-3 weeks (but he won't). Wallinder should have gotten a shot last year. Mazur should be up. Cossa should get some games. MBN should have made the team. ASP after this year absolutely needs to be on the team in a top 4 role.

I'm tired of watching other team's trash stink up the ice in Detroit, and anyone who dislikes it being told "there was no other choice!!"

Maybe Yzerman should've kept Hronek then! You're just completely missing the point of my post though. It's not that Yzemran has drafted particularly poorly or NJ has drafted particularly well (of which I think both are debatable). It's that in addition to getting lucky in the lottery (which GMs can't control) NJ has been able to supplement the core of the roster with players who have to varying degrees outperformed expectations and acquisition cost (which GMs can).

Is there a single guy in any role on the roster that you can point to and say "that was a great pickup"? There's no late round pick that has blossomed into a solid bottom pair guy. There's no vet UFA that outperformed expectations and was able to be sold at the deadline. No buy-low young reclamation project that maybe lost their way with another team but was put in the right environment to flourish. No late-blooming AHLer that managed to carve out a solid 4w slot later in their career.

Yes, these types of players aren't as important to driving team success as the MacKinnons and McDavids of the world. They certainly add up however, and are much more a direct reflection of a GMs ability.
I agree with you. There are definitely Detroit posters who believe everything Yzeramn does is infallible and there is no better way forward.

However, that seems to be well-balanced by completely clueless fans from other teams yapping about issues with the team that aren't actually issues at all (like the 1st round drafting).

In what world Hronek is more valuable than Bratt?

Bratt would be instantly the best forward in Detroit. Tell me you don't watch a single game of NJ without telling me you don't watch....
See, this is what I mean. If Lucas Raymond was playing beside Jack Hughes he'd have 100 points last year. Larkin is also a significantly better player than Bratt.

So much of this discourse is just completely disconnected from reality, and intended just to shit on Detroit without any care for actual useful discussion.
 
Idk about that. What are the incredible FAs Ottawa and Buffalo have acquired?
Claude Giroux would be our 3rd or 4th best forward immediately, and a massive step up from Kane/Compher/etc, so there's that.

Buffalo hasn't done it, but I'm not sure that one example of a team that seems to not be interested in signing any FAs at all means that no FAs want to go to bad teams.
 
Maybe Yzerman should've kept Hronek then! You're just completely missing the point of my post though. It's not that Yzemran has drafted particularly poorly or NJ has drafted particularly well (of which I think both are debatable). It's that in addition to getting lucky in the lottery (which GMs can't control) NJ has been able to supplement the core of the roster with players who have to varying degrees outperformed expectations and acquisition cost (which GMs can).

Is there a single guy in any role on the roster that you can point to and say "that was a great pickup"? There's no late round pick that has blossomed into a solid bottom pair guy. There's no vet UFA that outperformed expectations and was able to be sold at the deadline. No buy-low young reclamation project that maybe lost their way with another team but was put in the right environment to flourish. No late-blooming AHLer that managed to carve out a solid 4w slot later in their career.

Yes, these types of players aren't as important to driving team success as the MacKinnons and McDavids of the world. They certainly add up however, and are much more a direct reflection of a GMs ability.
You made a ridiculous claim and were called out on it.
 
Defense would look better if Draper & scouts drafted Seamus Casey and Lane Hutson instead of Dylan James and Dmitri Buchelnikov in the 2nd round in 2022.

Granted, Buchelnikov COULD become a nice 2nd line score if/when he comes over, but Hutson was much better value in that slot then & now.
 
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Defense would look better if Draper & scouts drafted Seamus Casey and Lane Hutson instead of Dylan James and Dmitri Buchelnikov in the 2nd round in 2022.

Granted, Buchelnikov COULD become a nice 2nd line score if/when he comes over, but Hutson was much better value in that slot then & now.

It's too bad only Detroit passed on those guys in the draft.

Wings drafting outside the 1st round is to be determined, lots of unknowns but you could do the same exercise with any team and draft year.
 
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Defense would look better if Draper & scouts drafted Seamus Casey and Lane Hutson instead of Dylan James and Dmitri Buchelnikov in the 2nd round in 2022.

Granted, Buchelnikov COULD become a nice 2nd line score if/when he comes over, but Hutson was much better value in that slot then & now.
Michigan boy too
 
It's too bad only Detroit passed on those guys in the draft.

Wings drafting outside the 1st round is to be determined, lots of unknowns but you could do the same exercise with any team and draft year.
Let's just look at 2nd and 3rd round picks by the Red Wings:

2019: Tuomisto (massive reach, hasn't panned out); Mastrosimone (did not sign, didn't develop anyway, decent pick at the time); Johansson (decent bottom pair option IMHO, not a bad pick); Grewe (good pick at the time, didn't develop enough, chewed up & spit out by uneven European Pro development system)

2020: Wallinder (could be a bottom pair guy, but hasn't developed as quickly as you'd like); Niederbach (thought he was going to become something solid, didn't pan out, didn't sign); Hanas (very skilled but was a reach on draft day, probably not going to be anything); Sebrango (used in DeBrincat trade, good prospect capital usage); Viro (not a bad pick at the time, but hasn't developed much since)

2021: S. Buium (decent defenseman with some middle/bottom pair potential, although seemed like a mild reach on draft day); Mazur (reach on draft day, but production explosion at Denver makes me think he could be a solid 3rd liner for the Wings, hope he's healthy soon)

2022: James (reach on draft day, hasn't taken off at North Dakota despite being a solid role player for UND); Buchelnikov (reach on draft day, but he's taken off over the last year plus in the K, definite steal potential here)

2023: Augustine (great goalie pick, should be an NHLer down the road); Gibson (reach on draft day, traded for Kiiskinen who was taken later & looks to be much better); Cleveland (massive massive reach on a "defensive" defenseman who likes to hit a lot, it's still early but doesn't look like a future NHLer); N. Dower Nilsson (nice gamble on skill here even if he doesn't fully pan out, plenty of time for him to develop in the SHL)

2024: Plante (good 2nd round pick, middle 6 scoring option potential); Becher (not a bad gamble here, but he'll need to develop quicker as he's already in the A after being selected as a D+2)

Overall, seems like a mixed bag, leaning a bit more negative than positive. We'll see how later round guys like Savage, Lombardi, & Finnie can do as well. But you need to hit some more doubles if not outright home runs with picks beyond the 1st round. Other teams have done well during that time period getting solid NHL contributors like Hoglander, Vlasic, Dorofeyev, Maccelli, Wolf, Peterka, Evangelista, Faber, Cuylle, Laferriere, Stankoven, Knies, Moser, Casey, & Hutson beyond the 1st round,

Michigan boy too
Hutson was born in Holland Michigan but never grew up there. He's from North Barrington Illinois, Chicago suburb. You can make fun of the Blackhawks for drafting Paul Ludwinski and Ryan Greene in the 2nd round ahead of Hutson, who many Blackhawks fans were pounding their tables for Davidson/scouts to draft.
 
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I don't think that really changes much for Detroit in the big picture though.

As much of a shit show as it is at the moment, long-term, the d-core is not the issue. They ended up with ASP the following year, and considering they traded to get a shot at him in the 1st round, may have already had him targeted.

Like you said Buchelnikov is a good prospect, which they need up front. I also would not be writing off Dylan James yet. A long way to go for him for sure, but I do think he gets a contract after this season.
 

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