GDT: Game 65/82 Blues @ Kings 7PM KMOV

[BlueSeal]

I can relate to the massive cognitive dissonance here where you deeply want this team to win now but it appears that it comes at the cost of long-term success. It's a weird feeling, and hopefully it will be over sooner rather than later. For this year's draft specifically, there's a clear top 8. After that, picks 9-17 are a bit more even. On the flip side, look at Chicago. There's quite a bit of talk surrounding Bedard's patience for this rebuild. He reportedly looks visibly discouraged in post-game interviews with this amount of losing. What if he asks to be traded in a couple of years before Chicago is ready to ascend? In our case, what if Broberg and/or Holloway aren't happy on a tanking team when they become RFAs?

It's strictly my opinion that the Hawks and Bedard are pretenders. Bedard will be a solid bonafide player but he's not what was hyped up about him. I no longer fear the Hawks or whatever it is they call a front office these days.

This long-term success everyone is pitching is a hope, and I'm tired of it being presented as some sort of inevitable fact because It's not. I would love nothing more than to eat crow if everyone downstairs comes up and is amazing but even with that we have holes on this roster and some folks will need to go to bring in the folks we need to build the team into something more. And since the front office has decided that tanking is not in our cards, we will need to TRADE and SIGN to fill those holes. That's a fact.

Outside of that, if anyone's pulling out a magic board and going Yahtzee on teams and stealing great players, it's Army.

 

[BlueSeal]

We’ll be just fine.

At the end of the day, no matter what, I agree. So what?

 

[BlueMed]

If we had lost more games a few years ago, we'd have Edvinsson instead of Bolduc. We have a lack of top end talent but are flush with depth. I don't think myself or Letsgobooze is rooting for us to fail. We're simply rooting for us to go in any other direction than the middle. We're no closer to achieving our long-term goal of a finished rebuild than we are our short-term goal making the playoffs and making noise.

Also, I'm like 90% sure we've discussed seeing this draft class differently like VERY recently. I don't think there's a top 8 and then everyone else.

Bolduc has a higher PPG this season than Simon Edvinsson does, so I'm not sure where that's even coming from. Like I said, I completely understand the feeling of not wanting to become the Mediocre Minnesota Mild and live in the wildcard bubble perpetually. In another post, I have pointed out that organizational success is dependent on development ability just as much as drafting position. Look at the Boston Bruins: Bergeron, Krecji, McAvoy, Pastrnak, Marchand, Debrusk, etc. Not a single one of those players are drafted in the top 10. I'm not trying to convince anyone that a higher draft pick isn't more likely to have a higher ceiling, but I think this fan base is getting a little too neurotic about things we cannot control. But hey, no one should have a problem with you rooting against this team in the short-term. Cheer (or not cheer) to your liking.

 

[BlueMed]

This long-term success everyone is pitching is a hope, and I'm tired of it being presented as some sort of inevitable fact because It's not. I would love nothing more than to eat crow if everyone downstairs comes up and is amazing but even with that we have holes on this roster and some folks will need to go to bring in the folks we need to build the team into something more. And since the front office has decided that tanking is not in our cards, we will need to TRADE and SIGN to fill those holes. That's a fact.

Outside of that, if anyone's pulling out a magic board and going Yahtzee on teams and stealing great players, it's Army.

Army has already publicly stated that he is willing to do just that, so what's the fuss about?

 

[sfvega]

Bolduc has a higher PPG this season than Simon Edvinsson does, so I'm not sure where that's even coming from. Like I said, I completely understand the feeling of not wanting to become the Mediocre Minnesota Mild and live in the wildcard bubble perpetually. In another post, I have pointed out that organizational success is dependent on development ability just as much as drafting position. Look at the Boston Bruins: Bergeron, Krecji, McAvoy, Pastrnak, Marchand, Debrusk, etc. Not a single one of those players are drafted in the top 10. I'm not trying to convince anyone that a higher draft pick isn't more likely to have a higher ceiling, but I think this fan base is getting a little too neurotic about things we cannot control. But hey, no one should have a problem with you rooting against this team in the short-term. Cheer (or not cheer) to your liking.

Edvinsson is a huge, great skating RHD with good IQ and seemingly everything we need in young defenseman. Not sure why the measuring stick is points/game vs. a defenseman but I feel like you're just not on the same page here, willfully.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

At the end of the day, no matter what, I agree. So what?

Yes, Sir!

 

[BlueMed]

Edvinsson is a huge, great skating RHD with good IQ and seemingly everything we need in young defenseman. Not sure why the measuring stick is points/game vs. a defenseman but I feel like you're just not on the same page here, willfully.

That was my mistake. I for some reason thought he was a forward. Nonetheless, he was a 6th overall pick. The Blues picked Bolduc 17th overall that year after making the playoffs and losing to Colorado. That was probably our last legitimate shot of going deep had Kadri not injured Binnington that series. I'm just not sure what you expected the Blues to do. Tell competitive guys like ROR, Perron, and Binnington to not play to the best of their abilities? That's a loser culture, if you ask me.

 

[sfvega]

It's strictly my opinion that the Hawks and Bedard are pretenders. Bedard will be a solid bonafide player but he's not what was hyped up about him. I no longer fear the Hawks or whatever it is they call a front office these days.

This long-term success everyone is pitching is a hope, and I'm tired of it being presented as some sort of inevitable fact because It's not. I would love nothing more than to eat crow if everyone downstairs comes up and is amazing but even with that we have holes on this roster and some folks will need to go to bring in the folks we need to build the team into something more. And since the front office has decided that tanking is not in our cards, we will need to TRADE and SIGN to fill those holes. That's a fact.

Outside of that, if anyone's pulling out a magic board and going Yahtzee on teams and stealing great players, it's Army.

Yeah, am I missing something or did we not get invited to the kool aid party? This isn't a bad team that people are shitting on. This also isn't a good team ready to contend. We knew this going in, but we're pretty far into the rebuild without looking like it's all coming together soon. We've kinda painted ourselves into a corner here needing a big splash move in the off-season, but Army seems to get his best work done when he's not under the gun (Buch and Holloway/Broberg deals vs. Faulk and Krug with the Petro drama). We aren't a few minor tweaks away from competing for the division, and are we really ok with being an alsoran for another season, maybe two?

 

[sfvega]

That was my mistake. I for some reason thought he was a forward. Nonetheless, he was a 6th overall pick. The Blues picked Bolduc 17th overall that year after making the playoffs and losing to Colorado. That was probably our last legitimate shot of going deep had Kadri not injured Binnington that series. I'm just not sure what you expected the Blues to do. Tell competitive guys like ROR, Perron, and Binnington to not play to the best of their abilities? That's a loser culture, if you ask me.

What I'm saying is that what this team needs, they aren't willing to go for. We need a defenseman to take Faulk's place because he was just such a bust of a signing. And also since Parayko of now isn't likely to be the same Parayko 3 years from now, so when Snuggy and Dvo are hitting their stride we're gonna need someone to play tough minutes and make a big impact offensively.

Edvinsson is an example. We also can point to other examples from this past draft, where we won just enough to keep those defensemen out of our system and end up with Jiricek who, while good, is still miles away. We are at the behest of other teams for an impact player.

I don't think JUST teams like Buffalo are loser teams. I think teams like Ottawa, who have lacked that one extra piece that separates them from the next level, are losers. Right now, I think we're Ottawa. Great pieces here and there, healthy pipeline, but nothing to show for it. That's the rub. I can explain it 10 different ways, but I think you're still just gonna think I'm a crazy guy rooting against my own team. I want us to break through. I believe others do as well. But how do we accomplish that picking 15th? How are we closer by just missing out on the playoffs and a top 10 pick.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Edvinsson is a huge, great skating RHD with good IQ and seemingly everything we need in young defenseman. Not sure why the measuring stick is points/game vs. a defenseman but I feel like you're just not on the same page here, willfully.

First, he’s a lefty. And second, wtf? he was taken 11 spots ahead of us. Even if we had Detroit pick we might not have taken him. That is just random thing to say. Every year you can look higher in the draft and find someone better than we got.

We made the playoffs that year. We weren’t rebuilding or anything. We should have sacrificed the season so maybe we get guy who would be able to help us more 5 years down the road after most of our top players are gone from that team?

And to top it all off, where we picked we could have had Wyatt Johnston who is better than either.

 

[BlueMed]

What I'm saying is that what this team needs, they aren't willing to go for. We need a defenseman to take Faulk's place because he was just such a bust of a signing. And also since Parayko of now isn't likely to be the same Parayko 3 years from now, so when Snuggy and Dvo are hitting their stride we're gonna need someone to play tough minutes and make a big impact offensively.

Edvinsson is an example. We also can point to other examples from this past draft, where we won just enough to keep those defensemen out of our system and end up with Jiricek who, while good, is still miles away. We are at the behest of other teams for an impact player.

I don't think JUST teams like Buffalo are loser teams. I think teams like Ottawa, who have lacked that one extra piece that separates them from the next level, are losers. Right now, I think we're Ottawa. Great pieces here and there, healthy pipeline, but nothing to show for it. That's the rub. I can explain it 10 different ways, but I think you're still just gonna think I'm a crazy guy rooting against my own team. I want us to break through. I believe others do as well. But how do we accomplish that picking 15th? How are we closer by just missing out on the playoffs and a top 10 pick.

I never said you were crazy. I literally sentimentalized your position multiple times because I have found myself in it previously. At this point, I don't believe Army is depending on this year's draftee to help this team become competitive again, whether that's a 7th overall pick or 17th overall pick. He may use that pick as a trade chip along with other prospect(s) to go out and get a player of need. Army has vocalized that possibility on multiple occasions. Looking at the recent draftees, this team has way too many wingers (Buchnevich, Holloway, Kyrou, Neighbours, Snuggerud, and Bolduc). That must mean this team will be willing to part with at least one of Stenberg (least likely), Pekarcik, Kaskimaki, Stancl, or Mrsic. There have been recent reports of Army and NJ discussing a Schenn trade for Nemec, but NJ wasn't willing to do that.

Could a deal such as: Pekarcik + 2025 first round pick (i.e. 17th overall) yield Simon Nemec? That's something I could entertain if our scouting department has the same faith in him that they had in Broberg.

 

[sfvega]

First, he’s a lefty. And second, wtf? he was taken 11 spots ahead of us. Even if we had Detroit pick we might not have taken him. That is just random thing to say. Every year you can look higher in the draft and find someone better than we got.

We made the playoffs that year. We weren’t rebuilding or anything. We should have sacrificed the season so maybe we get guy who would be able to help us more 5 years down the road after most of our top players are gone from that team?

And to top it all off, where we picked we could have had Wyatt Johnston who is better than either.

He is a lefty, which I forgot. Still a more impactful player and I'd much rather have him than Fowler or Bolduc. But again, he is an example. Last draft was an example. Willander, who you're in love with, is an example. We have put ourselves in the position to get a defenseman of that talent level once in the past 5 years. And our best young defenseman, and I know you're not gonna believe this, is a top 10 pick.

 

[sfvega]

I never said you were crazy. I literally sentimentalized your position multiple times because I have found myself in it previously. At this point, I don't believe Army is depending on this year's draftee to help this team become competitive again, whether that's a 7th overall pick of 17th overall pick. He may use that pick as a trade chip along with other prospect(s) to go out and get a player of need. Army has vocalized that possibility on multiple occasions. Looking at the recent draftees, this team has way too many wingers (Buchnevich, Holloway, Kyrou, Neighbours, Snuggerud, and Bolduc). That must mean this team will be willing to part with at least one of Stenberg (least likely), Pekarcik, Kaskimaki, Stancl, or Mrsic. There have been recent reports of Army and NJ discussing a Schenn trade for Nemec, but NJ wasn't willing to do that.

Could a deal such as: Pekarcik + 2025 first round pick (i.e. 17th overall) yield Simon Nemec? That's something I could entertain if our scouting department has the same faith in him that they had in Broberg.

See, that's what I was saying in the trade thread. I wouldn't mind taking the chance on Nemec, but I'd rather not do that at the expense of an established player like (then suggested) Kyrou or Neighbours, or a top prospect like Dvo or Snuggy. Maybe Stenberg, maybe Bolduc, maybe like you said Pekarcik. Like we're clearly in need of potential to take us to the next level, which is where my frustration with the short-term goals stems from, but at a reasonable cost vs. risk.

 

[Reality Czech]

I never said you were crazy. I literally sentimentalized your position multiple times because I have found myself in it previously. At this point, I don't believe Army is depending on this year's draftee to help this team become competitive again, whether that's a 7th overall pick of 17th overall pick. He may use that pick as a trade chip along with other prospect(s) to go out and get a player of need. Army has vocalized that possibility on multiple occasions. Looking at the recent draftees, this team has way too many wingers (Buchnevich, Holloway, Kyrou, Neighbours, Snuggerud, and Bolduc). That must mean this team will be willing to part with at least one of Stenberg (least likely), Pekarcik, Kaskimaki, Stancl, or Mrsic. There have been recent reports of Army and NJ discussing a Schenn trade for Nemec, but NJ wasn't willing to do that.

Could a deal such as: Pekarcik + 2025 first round pick (i.e. 17th overall) yield Simon Nemec? That's something I could entertain if our scouting department has the same faith in him that they had in Broberg.

I'll say he's crazy. The guys posts are so full of assumptions and hypotheticals that I don't even know where to start. If a fan is actively hoping we lose, why even bother following the team right now? Find another hobby and check back in with us next year. I personally like watching a competitive team instead of having a losing culture that players want to avoid.

He is a lefty, which I forgot. Still a more impactful player and I'd much rather have him than Fowler or Bolduc. But again, he is an example. Last draft was an example. Willander, who you're in love with, is an example. We have put ourselves in the position to get a defenseman of that talent level once in the past 5 years. And our best young defenseman, and I know you're not gonna believe this, is a top 10 pick.

The way you word this is amusing to me. We "put ourself" in this position by trying to win. Fans expecting the team to suck on purpose to get a higher draft pick need to accept that front offices and coaches don't think that way unless the team is so bad they have no other choice. Getting high draft picks isn't a reward, it's a consolation prize for being a crappy team. Fans whining because the team is too good to get a top ten pick is lame imo. Be careful what you wish for.

And yes, Broberg was a top ten pick but Harley was drafted at 18 that same year and the Hawks drafted Vlasic in the second round. So it's also possible to find good talent later in the draft. Not to mention the fact that you don't HAVE to draft these guys. There are other ways of acquiring good d-men without having to suffer through terrible teams in the hopes you draft one. Army managed to do just that.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

He is a lefty, which I forgot. Still a more impactful player and I'd much rather have him than Fowler or Bolduc. But again, he is an example. Last draft was an example. Willander, who you're in love with, is an example. We have put ourselves in the position to get a defenseman of that talent level once in the past 5 years. And our best young defenseman, and I know you're not gonna believe this, is a top 10 pick.

I love Willander, but we were in position to draft him. We picked Dvo instead. I was torn as I was big fan of both. Obviously you have better chance of getting top player earlier in draft, I don't think anyone disputes that. But that isn't the same thig as saying that you should try to lose so you can pick higher. Player development matters. Culture matters. Coaching matters. There is more than just "draft high get better players" involved in building winning team.

 

[sfvega]

I love Willander, but we were in position to draft him. We picked Dvo instead. I was torn as I was big fan of both. Obviously you have better chance of getting top player earlier in draft, I don't think anyone disputes that. But that isn't the same thig as saying that you should try to lose so you can pick higher. Player development matters. Culture matters. Coaching matters. There is more than just "draft high get better players" involved in building winning team.

It's not as simple as losing for a better draft pick and then we're hockey gods in no time. I've never claimed it is. My point is that we lack top end talent. Now we have a mostly clean cap table, we've restocked the cupboard prospect-wise, we have our coach of the future. We have painted ourselves in a corner where we have to make a move or really get great play out of Dvo and Snuggy pretty quick. All I'm saying is that we should move in a direction. If it's to push all the chips in, I'm in. If it's to take a step back to take a step forward, I'm in. But this middle ground stuff just drives me nuts. It's probably just Cardinals fatigue, but we gotta turn a corner somewhere.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

It's not as simple as losing for a better draft pick and then we're hockey gods in no time. I've never claimed it is. My point is that we lack top end talent. Now we have a mostly clean cap table, we've restocked the cupboard prospect-wise, we have our coach of the future. We have painted ourselves in a corner where we have to make a move or really get great play out of Dvo and Snuggy pretty quick. All I'm saying is that we should move in a direction. If it's to push all the chips in, I'm in. If it's to take a step back to take a step forward, I'm in. But this middle ground stuff just drives me nuts. It's probably just Cardinals fatigue, but we gotta turn a corner somewhere.

Folks may not like it- and I don't always agree with it- but we HAVE a direction. We are working in the kids but don't want to bottom out. We want to be competitive and get the kids who are up meaningful games, reasoning that this will make them better players and maintain a culture that is conducive to winning. This has been basic plan since we sold off at trade deadline 2 years ago.

Will it work? Maybe. Do we have top end talent? Maybe not. But we have lots of young talent. Some may exceed our expectations. Some may be bundled to get higher-end players. That seems to be the goal. There is no guarantee that tanking works either- look at Chicago and how frustrated Berard apparently is. Buffalo has sucked for over a decade. I sure don't want that.

I'm not arguing this is the best path, but we do have a direction and it could well lead to us becoming a contender in a few years. Throwing everything we are building away in hopes of higher draft picks just seems like a really bad idea.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

This just isn’t true. We could have traded with Flyers but elected not to. And all indications are that if we had traded up, it would have been to select Jiricek. He was the guy we wanted by all accounts. So finishing 3 spots worse wouldn’t have changed that.

The asset of pick 13 will forever and always be more valuable than pick 17. It is true. Whether we pick from that spot, use it to trade up, or straight up trade the pick, there is a value difference. It was hinted at that Philly didnt trade with us because they didnt want to move that far back and took Minny's deal instead. Pick position 100% matters, sure exact similar deals wont be there every year, but a higher pick puts you in the best position each year. No debating that.

 

[sfvega]

Folks may not like it- and I don't always agree with it- but we HAVE a direction. We are working in the kids but don't want to bottom out. We want to be competitive and get the kids who are up meaningful games, reasoning that this will make them better players and maintain a culture that is conducive to winning. This has been basic plan since we sold off at trade deadline 2 years ago.

Will it work? Maybe. Do we have top end talent? Maybe not. But we have lots of young talent. Some may exceed our expectations. Some may be bundled to get higher-end players. That seems to be the goal. There is no guarantee that tanking works either- look at Chicago and how frustrated Berard apparently is. Buffalo has sucked for over a decade. I sure don't want that.

I'm not arguing this is the best path, but we do have a direction and it could well lead to us becoming a contender in a few years. Throwing everything we are building away in hopes of higher draft picks just seems like a really bad idea.

First of all, I think you're misrepresenting my argument even though I've explained it a few times. It's not tank at all costs. I even warned against getting overly excited in the tank thread because this is the way we usually operate.

Secondly, I also think the counterargument is really easy to run and say "We don't want to be Buffalo" or in the past it was Edmonton, now it's Chicago. But we have to remember that it is NOT cut and dry. Not every team who wins the Cup is some scrappy go-getter and not every team who drafts highly is destined for irrelevance. Look at the Avs, who we ALL hate. Sadly, they've won a Cup and look like contenders for years to come because they got Makar, Rantanen, and MacK and built around them. Tampa bottomed out to get Stamkos and Hedman and it changed their franchise for a decade. Chicago, who again hate their guts, bottomed out and got Toews and Kane. Obviously other moves and players around them, but their core were guys that they found at the top of the draft. Meanwhile we scrapped and clawed our way to the playoffs in 2009 under Payne with young guys like Oshie and Perron playing important games, and not only did we never break through with that young core, but we didn't win big until we transitioned to a different core with only Petro (a top 10 pick) being the last of the guys built around the old squad.

So again, like a bunch of other times, I'm not saying bottom out and make everyone play shitty hockey and crush their spirits. Hell, I was in the trade thread saying that Army not making the playoffs in 3 straight wasn't the end of the world or a bad mark on his legacy. But we've gone through the lean times, it's time to turn the corner in the rebuild. Let's get somewhere. There is a LOT of pressure on Army to make a significant move this offseason, because this team as constructed is not merely a Dvo away from being a strong contender.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

First of all, I think you're misrepresenting my argument even though I've explained it a few times. It's not tank at all costs. I even warned against getting overly excited in the tank thread because this is the way we usually operate.

Secondly, I also think the counterargument is really easy to run and say "We don't want to be Buffalo" or in the past it was Edmonton, now it's Chicago. But we have to remember that it is NOT cut and dry. Not every team who wins the Cup is some scrappy go-getter and not every team who drafts highly is destined for irrelevance. Look at the Avs, who we ALL hate. Sadly, they've won a Cup and look like contenders for years to come because they got Makar, Rantanen, and MacK and built around them. Tampa bottomed out to get Stamkos and Hedman and it changed their franchise for a decade. Chicago, who again hate their guts, bottomed out and got Toews and Kane. Obviously other moves and players around them, but their core were guys that they found at the top of the draft. Meanwhile we scrapped and clawed our way to the playoffs in 2009 under Payne with young guys like Oshie and Perron playing important games, and not only did we never break through with that young core, but we didn't win big until we transitioned to a different core with only Petro (a top 10 pick) being the last of the guys built around the old squad.

So again, like a bunch of other times, I'm not saying bottom out and make everyone play shitty hockey and crush their spirits. Hell, I was in the trade thread saying that Army not making the playoffs in 3 straight wasn't the end of the world or a bad mark on his legacy. But we've gone through the lean times, it's time to turn the corner in the rebuild. Let's get somewhere. There is a LOT of pressure on Army to make a significant move this offseason, because this team as constructed is not merely a Dvo away from being a strong contender.

You are misconstruing my point. You said we don’t have a direction. I am saying we do. I’m not arguing that it’s the best direction, just that it’s not an unreasonable one. And I don’t think we are counting on dvo to be difference maker next year or 2. We hope he can get there in time. Like we did with Broberg and Holloway, I think army will try to be aggressive this summer if there is age appropriate guy available that he thinks can add to our emerging core. That could be Dobson or mctavish or nemec or mintuykov or harley or misa or I don’t know who, but we need at least 2 more guys at roughly Thomas level. Maybe we already have them in Broberg and dvo or jiricek or whomever once they develop, but I don’t think army wants to just wait to find out. He is gonna try to get them.

 

[sfvega]

You are misconstruing my point. You said we don’t have a direction. I am saying we do. I’m not arguing that it’s the best direction, just that it’s not an unreasonable one. And I don’t think we are counting on dvo to be difference maker next year or 2. We hope he can get there in time. Like we did with Broberg and Holloway, I think army will try to be aggressive this summer if there is age appropriate guy available that he thinks can add to our emerging core. That could be Dobson or mctavish or nemesis or mintuykov or harley or miss or I don’t know who, but we need at least 2 more guys at roughly Thomas level. Maybe we already have them in Broberg and dvo or jiricek or whomever once they develop, but I don’t think army wants to just wait to find out. He is gonna try to get them.

I agree with that assessment. The Holloway/Broberg trade was a stroke of genius, and we praised him at the time unanimously. Jiricek is years away, I'm talking next 2 years. By the time Jiricek is hitting his stride in the pros, Kyrou and Thomas will be 30, Buch and Parayko even further. And one of my pet peeves on HF is people acting like 30 is ancient, but at the same time I would want us to put together a team while they are still solidly in their prime. I like what Army has done so far. We all loved the draft 2 years ago. We all loved the trade before the season. We all believe in the coach. But this team this year isn't it. We may have a number of different outcomes ahead of us this season, but legitimate contender is not one of them. So the question turns to how good are we going to be next year? Notably better I would hope, but that would take some moves.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I agree with that assessment. The Holloway/Broberg trade was a stroke of genius, and we praised him at the time unanimously. Jiricek is years away, I'm talking next 2 years. By the time Jiricek is hitting his stride in the pros, Kyrou and Thomas will be 30, Buch and Parayko even further. And one of my pet peeves on HF is people acting like 30 is ancient, but at the same time I would want us to put together a team while they are still solidly in their prime. I like what Army has done so far. We all loved the draft 2 years ago. We all loved the trade before the season. We all believe in the coach. But this team this year isn't it. We may have a number of different outcomes ahead of us this season, but legitimate contender is not one of them. So the question turns to how good are we going to be next year? Notably better I would hope, but that would take some moves.

We are in agreement.

 

[sfvega]

The asset of pick 13 will forever and always be more valuable than pick 17. It is true. Whether we pick from that spot, use it to trade up, or straight up trade the pick, there is a value difference. It was hinted at that Philly didnt trade with us because they didnt want to move that far back and took Minny's deal instead. Pick position 100% matters, sure exact similar deals wont be there every year, but a higher pick puts you in the best position each year. No debating that.

Everyone praises our scouting but doesn't care if we pick 8th or 18th. It's wild. Especially in terms of us needing another play driver. If you pick top 10, you have a higher chance of one in general, a higher chance of one that plays sooner, and also the increased trade value. I don't think it's impossible to trade for a Dobson without a top 10 pick, but it is decidedly much easier with it. Because I'd like to see this team turn a corner sometime soon, and going from .561 point percentage last season to .531 is not my idea of it.

 

[Ranksu]

Folks may not like it- and I don't always agree with it- but we HAVE a direction. We are working in the kids but don't want to bottom out. We want to be competitive and get the kids who are up meaningful games, reasoning that this will make them better players and maintain a culture that is conducive to winning. This has been basic plan since we sold off at trade deadline 2 years ago.

Will it work? Maybe. Do we have top end talent? Maybe not. But we have lots of young talent. Some may exceed our expectations. Some may be bundled to get higher-end players. That seems to be the goal. There is no guarantee that tanking works either- look at Chicago and how frustrated Berard apparently is. Buffalo has sucked for over a decade. I sure don't want that.

I'm not arguing this is the best path, but we do have a direction and it could well lead to us becoming a contender in a few years. Throwing everything we are building away in hopes of higher draft picks just seems like a really bad idea.

What we have become.

Minnesota Wild

 

[Xerloris]

Everyone praises our scouting but doesn't care if we pick 8th or 18th. It's wild. Especially in terms of us needing another play driver. If you pick top 10, you have a higher chance of one in general, a higher chance of one that plays sooner, and also the increased trade value. I don't think it's impossible to trade for a Dobson without a top 10 pick, but it is decidedly much easier with it. Because I'd like to see this team turn a corner sometime soon, and going from .561 point percentage last season to .531 is not my idea of it.

We care but we care more about the team playing hard and winning a game so it's hard for us to really root for a tank. Sure, when the season is mathematically over its fun to root for a higher draft pick but when we have a chance? A lot of us just can't do it.