When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Pavels Dog]

The point though is that while sure NJ has maybe missed on someone like Holtz, they have hit on picks that weren't expected to like Bratt or Casey or Mercer (or a UFA or trade acquisition like Seigenthaler). DET hasn't done that yet. Can't just always be doing everything at pace or expectation, there needs to be some sort of overperformance somewhere. Maybe that's Augustine or Mazur or someone else down the line, but as of right now it's no one. It's a real problem with Yzerman that there's not a single guy on the roster you can point to -- even if it's a third liner or a 4D -- and go "wow he really made a lot out of nothing there." An even bigger one to me that he doesn't seem that interested in even trying to find those kinds of guys.

Relevant NHL talent from 2019 draft and on:

New Jersey - Hughes, Mercer, L. Hughes, Nemec
Detroit - Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper

Doesn't seem vastly different. Going by draft position I'd argue Detroit's overperformed.

Yeah, NJ's been more aggressive about putting themselves into a playoff position. Because they hit on picks in 2016-2017. That's what lottery luck does. Yeah you can point to Bratt, great pick. But would they be where they are if they had Michael Rasmussen and Jesper Bratt instead of Hischier and Bratt? If you want to discuss the Holland era drafting failures, go ahead. We're all here for it. It was a mess. But NJ isn't a team built on amazing late round drafting; they're a team built with historic lottery luck.

 

[dekelikekocur]

Yzerman signed those FAs to push you over the edge into contention and 3 years after his shopping spree has nothing to show for it. Now most of them have negative value and aren't actually helping with the "process" in any way. Yet you are using the fact that they might accumulate enough talent to get into the playoffs over 10 years as some kind of redeeming feature.

Yes, if you have 0 expectations this rebuild is right on track since you will get something eventually with multiple first-round picks every year.

You're the broken record who refuses to see the forest for the trees. They had to sign gap fillers. They signed replacement level players that literally are place holders for the kids as the kids show they're ready.

They weren't signed to push them over the top, that's a YOU narrative not a real thing.
Stop making bullshit up.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

1). Ken Holland drafted Filip Hronek in the 2nd round that year [2016] who is more valuable than Bratt. So, ummm... there's that.

Hronek is not more valuable than Bratt.

 

[FMichael]

Don’t worry guys, they have three #1D in the wings. Rebuild is fine.

The comedy of it all is that my beloved Detroit Red Wings will win the Cup (again - and multiple times) before your Toronto Maple Leafs...

 

[FMichael]

Derek Lalonde is the worst coach in the NHL.

This right here...The players look as though they've checked out.

 

[FMichael]

I agree. Yzermans work in FA has been abysmal. The pro scouting in Detroit is F-tier.

Unfortunate reality is that not all UFAs want to play on a rebuild and they might make more $$$ on a better team...Such is life when filling holes until the 'kids' are ready

 

[Dotter]

Hronek is not more valuable than Bratt.

1st paring 50 point RHD vs a 2nd line winger. Lol, Okay.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Unfortunate reality is that not all UFAs want to play on a rebuild and they might make more $$$ on a better team...Such is life when filling holes until the 'kids' are ready

This is a shit excuse. Every other rebuilding team has managed to sign better free agents.

 

[Pavels Dog]

This is a shit excuse. Every other rebuilding team has managed to sign better free agents.

Idk about that. What are the incredible FAs Ottawa and Buffalo have acquired?

 

[FMichael]

This is a shit excuse. Every other rebuilding team has managed to sign better free agents.

Do you understand how UFA works?

Do you have any inside information?

This idea of “free agents - he shall be ours to sign” doesn’t always work that way - look no further than Luongo turning down an offer sheet from Detroit back in 2006.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Idk about that. What are the incredible FAs Ottawa and Buffalo have acquired?

Giroux was a pretty good one for Ottawa

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Wait, so you use an example of a 2016 pick Bratt to show us Yzerman needs to draft better?

1). Ken Holland drafted Filip Hronek in the 2nd round that year [2016] who is more valuable than Bratt. So, ummm... there's that.

2). Then you used an example of a 1st round pick (18th overall) in Mercer, when Yzerman selected a better player in the 1st round Lucas Raymond. - I'll keep Raymond, but thanks tho!

3). Then you used an example of Casey who has a whopping 8 NHL games played.

Jesus, man!

In what world Hronek is more valuable than Bratt?

Bratt would be instantly the best forward in Detroit. Tell me you don't watch a single game of NJ without telling me you don't watch....

 

[Kaners PPGs]

1st paring 50 point RHD vs a 2nd line winger. Lol, Okay.

Bratt is a 2nd line winger? He's a pt/game dynamic winger. Do you watch either of them play?

 

[qc14]

Wait, so you use an example of a 2016 pick Bratt to show us Yzerman needs to draft better?

1). Ken Holland drafted Filip Hronek in the 2nd round that year [2016] who is more valuable than Bratt. So, ummm... there's that.

2). Then you used an example of a 1st round pick (18th overall) in Mercer, when Yzerman selected a better player in the 1st round Lucas Raymond. - I'll keep Raymond, but thanks tho!

3). Then you used an example of Casey who has a whopping 8 NHL games played.

Jesus, man!

Maybe Yzerman should've kept Hronek then! You're just completely missing the point of my post though. It's not that Yzemran has drafted particularly poorly or NJ has drafted particularly well (of which I think both are debatable). It's that in addition to getting lucky in the lottery (which GMs can't control) NJ has been able to supplement the core of the roster with players who have to varying degrees outperformed expectations and acquisition cost (which GMs can).

Is there a single guy in any role on the roster that you can point to and say "that was a great pickup"? There's no late round pick that has blossomed into a solid bottom pair guy. There's no vet UFA that outperformed expectations and was able to be sold at the deadline. No buy-low young reclamation project that maybe lost their way with another team but was put in the right environment to flourish. No late-blooming AHLer that managed to carve out a solid 4w slot later in their career.

Yes, these types of players aren't as important to driving team success as the MacKinnons and McDavids of the world. They certainly add up however, and are much more a direct reflection of a GMs ability.

 

[kidkosher]

1st paring 50 point RHD vs a 2nd line winger. Lol, Okay.

Not falling for this bait