When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Puck Tiss]

Holland left Yzerman with the weakest prospect pool that I have seen. Then he jumped ship to Edmonton. Holland is a very overrated GM.
Edit: Who had Moritz Seider going that high in the draft? I honestly would not take a player drafted above him

​

 

[ricky0034]

Do you think it’s easy to build a contending team with the base of one lower end #1C and essentially nothing else? Especially when you keep dropping in the draft?

nothing else is pretty hyperbolic

all of Hronek,Mantha, and Bertuzzi were good enough players that other teams were willing to trade a 1st+ for them

Rasmussen may be underwhelming for where he was drafted but Yzerman himself values him enough that he was willing to sign him to a 4x3.2m extension two months ago

then there's Veleno who again isn't exciting but is pretty clearly a NHL guy

and Berggren exists even if the Wings want to pretend he doesn't

is it as good as what Yzerman started with in Tampa? no, but it's at least good enough that people shouldn't still be pointing fingers at the previous guy every time someone directs even mild criticism his way 5 years later

Ken Holland has been gone long enough by now that Yzerman is in the top 10 longest tenured GMs in the league and at some point people need to move on

 

[Puck Tiss]

nothing else is pretty hyperbolic

all of Hronek,Mantha, and Bertuzzi were good enough players that other teams were willing to trade a 1st+ for them

Rasmussen may be underwhelming for where he was drafted but Yzerman himself values him enough that he was willing to sign him to a 4x3.2m extension two months ago

then there's Veleno who again isn't exciting but is pretty clearly a NHL guy

and Berggren exists even if the Wings want to pretend he doesn't

is it as good as what Yzerman started with in Tampa? no, but it's at least good enough that people shouldn't still be pointing fingers at the previous guy every time someone directs even mild criticism his way 5 years later

Ken Holland has been gone long enough by now that Yzerman is in the top 10 longest tenured GMs in the league and at some point people need t

Yzerman has Stamkos and Hedman first day. Then he ironically fleeced Detroit and drafted Vasilevskiy. Thats a good starting off point.
Edit: it was Quincey who Detroit drafted and put on waivers and lost via wavers. Then they traded back for him. Holland did way more damage.

 

[cvaicunas]

nothing else is pretty hyperbolic

all of Hronek,Mantha, and Bertuzzi were good enough players that other teams were willing to trade a 1st+ for them

Rasmussen may be underwhelming for where he was drafted but Yzerman himself values him enough that he was willing to sign him to a 4x3.2m extension two months ago

then there's Veleno who again isn't exciting but is pretty clearly a NHL guy

and Berggren exists even if the Wings want to pretend he doesn't

is it as good as what Yzerman started with in Tampa? no, but it's at least good enough that people shouldn't still be pointing fingers at the previous guy every time someone directs even mild criticism his way 5 years later

Ken Holland has been gone long enough by now that Yzerman is in the top 10 longest tenured GMs in the league and at some point people need to move on

Right but those players were moved, as they were some of the only worthy assets remaining on the team. Look you don't have to mention Holland anymore, but I think you do need to realize the rebuild is taking longer as the team was forced to move it's best assets for futures. As such, the timeline for coming out of the rebuild was naturally lengthened. When Hronek, Mantha, and Bertuzzi are your most attractive assets, your team is shit, and you have to blow itup.

 

[Puck Tiss]

Bertuzzi and Hronek were decent picks

 

[norrisnick]

nothing else is pretty hyperbolic

all of Hronek,Mantha, and Bertuzzi were good enough players that other teams were willing to trade a 1st+ for them

Rasmussen may be underwhelming for where he was drafted but Yzerman himself values him enough that he was willing to sign him to a 4x3.2m extension two months ago

then there's Veleno who again isn't exciting but is pretty clearly a NHL guy

and Berggren exists even if the Wings want to pretend he doesn't

is it as good as what Yzerman started with in Tampa? no, but it's at least good enough that people shouldn't still be pointing fingers at the previous guy every time someone directs even mild criticism his way 5 years later

Ken Holland has been gone long enough by now that Yzerman is in the top 10 longest tenured GMs in the league and at some point people need to move on

When the question is "Why hasn't Yzerman made the Wings a playoff team yet?" ignoring what he started with is disingenuous to say the very least. Doubly so from someone that wanted more seasons of futility rather than the progression of the last two seasons.

 

[wingsfan17]

Not sure what’s up with the Seider hate. Just because he’s not a point per game defensive, he’s not a first line d-man? He’s a very solid 2 way defenseman and his defensive ability is quite underrated. 200+ hits and blocks this year. Second in the league in blocks. He’s EASILY a top 50 defenseman in the league. Plus minus would be better if he had a semi decent linemate.

On topic, Yzerman (and Lalonde) should be gone if wings don’t make playoffs last year. I know he inherited a steaming pile of poop, but it’s been long enough.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Part of the Yzerplan is the young guys marinating in GR and a good run by Grand Rapids could give some of those guys some big experience and punch through for a playoff spot this year. Very important playoff coming up here.

 

[FissionFire]

Wings drafting at the end of the Hollabd era was brutal. Only Vegas and Seattle had less drafted players on NHL rosters last year. That’s a severe lack of talent that Yzerman inherited. Hard to rebuild a team when you have nothing to start with in the prospect pool.

 

[nbwingsfan]

nothing else is pretty hyperbolic

all of Hronek,Mantha, and Bertuzzi were good enough players that other teams were willing to trade a 1st+ for them

Rasmussen may be underwhelming for where he was drafted but Yzerman himself values him enough that he was willing to sign him to a 4x3.2m extension two months ago

then there's Veleno who again isn't exciting but is pretty clearly a NHL guy

and Berggren exists even if the Wings want to pretend he doesn't

is it as good as what Yzerman started with in Tampa? no, but it's at least good enough that people shouldn't still be pointing fingers at the previous guy every time someone directs even mild criticism his way 5 years later

Ken Holland has been gone long enough by now that Yzerman is in the top 10 longest tenured GMs in the league and at some point people need to move on

So Larkin, three players who were all traded for 1sts and the prospects haven’t reached the NHL yet and there for aren’t contributing yet. Bert was essentially flipped for Debrincat.

And a 30pt and 20pt player is supposed to mean anything?

Yes, he left Yzerman with essentially nothing that’s making contributions to the team in any kind of meaningful way outside of Larkin.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Not sure what’s up with the Seider hate. Just because he’s not a point per game defensive, he’s not a first line d-man? He’s a very solid 2 way defenseman and his defensive ability is quite underrated. 200+ hits and blocks this year. Second in the league in blocks. He’s EASILY a top 50 defenseman in the league. Plus minus would be better if he had a semi decent linemate.

On topic, Yzerman (and Lalonde) should be gone if wings don’t make playoffs last year. I know he inherited a steaming pile of poop, but it’s been long enough.

I think Yzerman gets a slightly longer leash to see how Kasper, Daniselsson, Edvinsson, Cossa, ASP start turning out.

Lalonde absolutely should be though. He’d be looking for a job right now if it were my chocie

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

the whole "Holland left him nothing to work with!" thing is kinda funny when combined with just how bad this team looks whenever Larkin isn't in the lineup

maybe it's time for people to let it go and stop using Ken Holland as an excuse

The people still saying that it’s Holland’s fault are doing anything and everything to admit that maybe Yzerman can’t actually walk on water after all.

It’s been literally half a decade, it’s not
Holland’s mess anymore.

Holland didn’t draft only two players in five years who are regular NHL players. Holland didn’t build this current team that is horrendous defensively and looked completely lost in the absence of one player. Holland didn’t hire a head coach who is clueless, has no idea how to manage a game, has all the motivational skills of bland oatmeal, and who constantly attempts to lower expectations. Holland didn’t give the current awful contracts to useless players like Copp and Holl.

Do you think it’s easy to build a contending team with the base of one lower end #1C and essentially nothing else? Especially when you keep dropping in the draft?

Do you think Yzerman was hired to get the same results after 5 years that anyone else taking the GM job would have gotten?

 

[PanniniClaus]

I think Yzerman gets a slightly longer leash to see how Kasper, Daniselsson, Edvinsson, Cossa, ASP start turning out.

Lalonde absolutely should be though. He’d be looking for a job right now if it were my chocie

Leafs will take him.

 

[wingsfan17]

Wings drafting at the end of the Hollabd era was brutal. Only Vegas and Seattle had less drafted players on NHL rosters last year. That’s a severe lack of talent that Yzerman inherited. Hard to rebuild a team when you have nothing to start with in the prospect pool.

Funny you mention Vegas and Seattle. Those teams prove that quick turnarounds can happen, despite lack of talent/assets. Obviously we all know Vegas' success, and even the Kraken won a playoff round in their second year. Yzerman has had five seasons and zero playoff appearances. The crap he inherited from Holland is just an excuse at this point, it's not what's holding the team back. Having $15M in dead cap from Husso, Copp, Chiarot, Petry, and Holl (all Yzerman moves), is what's holding the team back.

I'll give him one more year since there was progess this year, but if people keep thinking "he just needs more time!" after six years, that's insane. Playoffs isn't asking much. 16/32 teams make the playoffs. That's a coin flip. You shouldn't lose five (or more) coin flips in a row.

 

[FissionFire]

You neglect to mention those teams also got to pick players off every roster and had a fresh salary cap to spend with no bloated carryover contracts/buyouts like Abdelkader and Dekeyser for example. That’s a pretty big bonus in team building.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Funny you mention Vegas and Seattle. Those teams prove that quick turnarounds can happen, despite lack of talent/assets. Obviously we all know Vegas' success, and even the Kraken won a playoff round in their second year. Yzerman has had five seasons and zero playoff appearances. The crap he inherited from Holland is just an excuse at this point, it's not what's holding the team back. Having $15M in dead cap from Husso, Copp, Chiarot, Petry, and Holl (all Yzerman moves), is what's holding the team back.

I'll give him one more year since there was progess this year, but if people keep thinking "he just needs more time!" after six years, that's insane. Playoffs isn't asking much. 16/32 teams make the playoffs. That's a coin flip. You shouldn't lose five (or more) coin flips in a row.

I was shocked that Yzerman didn’t say outright that the playoffs is our goal next year but instead hemmed and hawed and said “I hope to” make the playoffs next year and that making the playoffs “is hard”.

No, Steve. Making the playoffs is not hard. Literally half of the NHL makes the playoffs.

 

[wingsfan17]

You neglect to mention those teams also got to pick players off every roster and had a fresh salary cap to spend with no bloated carryover contracts/buyouts like Abdelkader and Dekeyser for example. That’s a pretty big bonus in team building.

Yeah... they got to pick the 10th best player off every roster and started with zero prospect pool... I GUARANTEE you the Kraken would trade all of their assets for all of Detroit's assets year 1, bad contracts, buyouts and all.

 

[norrisnick]

Funny you mention Vegas and Seattle. Those teams prove that quick turnarounds can happen, despite lack of talent/assets. Obviously we all know Vegas' success, and even the Kraken won a playoff round in their second year. Yzerman has had five seasons and zero playoff appearances. The crap he inherited from Holland is just an excuse at this point, it's not what's holding the team back. Having $15M in dead cap from Husso, Copp, Chiarot, Petry, and Holl (all Yzerman moves), is what's holding the team back.

I'll give him one more year since there was progess this year, but if people keep thinking "he just needs more time!" after six years, that's insane. Playoffs isn't asking much. 16/32 teams make the playoffs. That's a coin flip. You shouldn't lose five (or more) coin flips in a row.

What do you think the ability to pluck 2nd liners and 2nd pairing D off of every team is other than a massive collection of assets?

 

[Our Lady Peace]

It's kinda funny how it seemed everyone sang the tune that Detroit was always the team that took time to develop players and "over-ripen" them and thus was the reason for their lengthy playoff success.

...Now it's a problem that they're employing that same tactic and Yzerman is taking "too long" to turn around a team that had Dylan Larkin as it's only valuable piece?

Not to mention in 2020 Detroit literally finished dead last and ended up drafting 4th. What are they supposed to do, keep bottoming out and praying the lottery wasn't going to screw them again and again?

 

[syz]

Funny you mention Vegas and Seattle. Those teams prove that quick turnarounds can happen, despite lack of talent/assets. Obviously we all know Vegas' success, and even the Kraken won a playoff round in their second year. Yzerman has had five seasons and zero playoff appearances. The crap he inherited from Holland is just an excuse at this point, it's not what's holding the team back. Having $15M in dead cap from Husso, Copp, Chiarot, Petry, and Holl (all Yzerman moves), is what's holding the team back.

I'll give him one more year since there was progess this year, but if people keep thinking "he just needs more time!" after six years, that's insane. Playoffs isn't asking much. 16/32 teams make the playoffs. That's a coin flip. You shouldn't lose five (or more) coin flips in a row.

Vegas and Seattle shouldn't enter the conversation for quick turnarounds, imo. A lot of teams could probably turn things around quickly if they got to try again with 100% of their cap space.

 

[FissionFire]

Yeah... they got to pick the 10th best player off every roster and started with zero prospect pool... I GUARANTEE you the Kraken would trade all of their assets for all of Detroit's assets year 1, bad contracts, buyouts and all.

That is patently false. Just like Vegas, they got some good players in the draft from teams who needed to shed cap. They didn’t get a bunch of scrubs like the 90s era expansion teams.

 

[Oddbob]

it would be gone by now if Yzerman hadn't bought him out, it would have been gone by the end of last season actually

Yeah and he would have been still a roster member.

 

[Oddbob]

nothing else is pretty hyperbolic

all of Hronek,Mantha, and Bertuzzi were good enough players that other teams were willing to trade a 1st+ for them

Rasmussen may be underwhelming for where he was drafted but Yzerman himself values him enough that he was willing to sign him to a 4x3.2m extension two months ago

then there's Veleno who again isn't exciting but is pretty clearly a NHL guy

and Berggren exists even if the Wings want to pretend he doesn't

is it as good as what Yzerman started with in Tampa? no, but it's at least good enough that people shouldn't still be pointing fingers at the previous guy every time someone directs even mild criticism his way 5 years later

Ken Holland has been gone long enough by now that Yzerman is in the top 10 longest tenured GMs in the league and at some point people need to move on

Wow, outside Larkin, you named a good player in Hronek and Bertuzzi when he isn't hurt, while Mantha is nothing at all. A low end scorer who plays no defence and isn't engaged most of the season. Ras is what he is a good not great player and is not a game breaker at all. Even if you count all these guys that is about 6 NHL players left over from Holland's era, which is piss poor. I only count maybe 3 of them. Yzerman has been here 5 seasons, 2-3 of which were getting out from all the crap contracts that Holland left him. Yzerman's touches don't really start until season 3-4 and we have improved each season since then.

Add to that we dropped or stayed put in every draft he has been here and the UFA class has been very poor that whole time. The small handful of high end talent didn't want a rebuilding team regardless of the market, and by and large have not lived up to their contracts ala Huberdeau and Gaudreau.

So what are all these moves that Steve, you or any NHL GM could make that has us better right now? To tank during the Bedard lead up draft, we would have had to trade both Larkin and Seider or not play either of them to be as bad as the 4-5 teams at the bottom.

Not sure what’s up with the Seider hate. Just because he’s not a point per game defensive, he’s not a first line d-man? He’s a very solid 2 way defenseman and his defensive ability is quite underrated. 200+ hits and blocks this year. Second in the league in blocks. He’s EASILY a top 50 defenseman in the league. Plus minus would be better if he had a semi decent linemate.

On topic, Yzerman (and Lalonde) should be gone if wings don’t make playoffs last year. I know he inherited a steaming pile of poop, but it’s been long enough.

I am fine if we miss the playoffs, so long as young guys were the ones leading the charge and not vets.

 

[Oddbob]

The people still saying that it’s Holland’s fault are doing anything and everything to admit that maybe Yzerman can’t actually walk on water after all.

It’s been literally half a decade, it’s not
Holland’s mess anymore.

Holland didn’t draft only two players in five years who are regular NHL players. Holland didn’t build this current team that is horrendous defensively and looked completely lost in the absence of one player. Holland didn’t hire a head coach who is clueless, has no idea how to manage a game, has all the motivational skills of bland oatmeal, and who constantly attempts to lower expectations. Holland didn’t give the current awful contracts to useless players like Copp and Holl.



Do you think Yzerman was hired to get the same results after 5 years that anyone else taking the GM job would have gotten?

It would be half a decade IF Yzerman came here with a legit superstar already on the team and way less terrible contracts on the books. No GM would have us in a better spot with what Yzerman started with. We could have tanked harder, and traded Larkin, but that is about the only different things another GM could do, and trading Larkin doesn't make us better unless we got lucky in the draft, which as has happened to date, the Wings have dropped or stayed put in all of them. I think we might be the one of the few long term lottery teams that has never moved up.

Again what should have been different? All you do is complain, I have legit never seen you or some of the other sour Wings fans make legit suggestions that actually improve us in anyway.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Funny you mention Vegas and Seattle. Those teams prove that quick turnarounds can happen, despite lack of talent/assets. Obviously we all know Vegas' success, and even the Kraken won a playoff round in their second year. Yzerman has had five seasons and zero playoff appearances. The crap he inherited from Holland is just an excuse at this point, it's not what's holding the team back. Having $15M in dead cap from Husso, Copp, Chiarot, Petry, and Holl (all Yzerman moves), is what's holding the team back.

I'll give him one more year since there was progess this year, but if people keep thinking "he just needs more time!" after six years, that's insane. Playoffs isn't asking much. 16/32 teams make the playoffs. That's a coin flip. You shouldn't lose five (or more) coin flips in a row.

How is that holding them back? Who was available for them to acquire with that money?

Funny you mention Vegas and Seattle. Those teams prove that quick turnarounds can happen, despite lack of talent/assets. Obviously we all know Vegas' success, and even the Kraken won a playoff round in their second year. Yzerman has had five seasons and zero playoff appearances. The crap he inherited from Holland is just an excuse at this point, it's not what's holding the team back. Having $15M in dead cap from Husso, Copp, Chiarot, Petry, and Holl (all Yzerman moves), is what's holding the team back.

I'll give him one more year since there was progess this year, but if people keep thinking "he just needs more time!" after six years, that's insane. Playoffs isn't asking much. 16/32 teams make the playoffs. That's a coin flip. You shouldn't lose five (or more) coin flips in a row.

The people still saying that it’s Holland’s fault are doing anything and everything to admit that maybe Yzerman can’t actually walk on water after all.

It’s been literally half a decade, it’s not
Holland’s mess anymore.

Holland didn’t draft only two players in five years who are regular NHL players. Holland didn’t build this current team that is horrendous defensively and looked completely lost in the absence of one player. Holland didn’t hire a head coach who is clueless, has no idea how to manage a game, has all the motivational skills of bland oatmeal, and who constantly attempts to lower expectations. Holland didn’t give the current awful contracts to useless players like Copp and Holl.



Do you think Yzerman was hired to get the same results after 5 years that anyone else taking the GM job would have gotten?

You’re the GM of the Wings in 2019, what exactly would you have done to make them playoff contenders long term by now.
Should be easy right? Let’s hear it.