What's Treliving first deal going to be?

[Notsince67]

That's alot of '>'.
Kempe is a nice player but what is the huge discrepancy in the two players based on?

+2 goals -6 points and an earlier exit.
Must be the "just because" reason

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Kempe + Clarke for Marner is the kind of return it would take for me to be ok with shipping him out. I doubt the Kings go for it, but that’s what it would take for me.

A consistent 30G+ scorer on a good contract, a top D prospect, and some cap savings.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I’d start with Marner to LA for Kempe. Exchange for some size and speed. 40 goal scorer, can play the wall, drive the net.
3 years left at 5.5. We can give Matthews a new contract, wait for Tavares contract to expire.

Need more like Kempe and Clarke but makes sense to me .. we need CAP relief to build a playoff type team and that deal would do it .. adds a RW/LW with speed and a D with #1 potential in 2 years

 

[Notsince67]

Kempe: A 35-40 goal scorer locked in for 3 more years at $5.5M. That's an asset that's higher value. Thumbs up.
Clarke: Not very far away from being a RH stud at the NHL level and probably ready to play at some capacity in the mean time. Perfect asset to acquire. Thumbs up.
$5M in cap space remaining for the next 3 seasons: Maybe enough to sign Matt Dumba. Thumbs up.

Uh huh. Do you like Dumba for his shit offense or shit defense?
Dumba hasn't been good for a number of years.

 

[justashadowof]

Never underestimate the value of having players locked in and performing at a level exceeding their compensation. Same thing about players on ELCs. Cap value is king.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

That's alot of '>'.
Kempe is a nice player but what is the huge discrepancy in the two players based on?

One elevates his game and plays the playoff style of hockey while scoring just as effectively as he did in the regular season while the other cannot handle the pressure and is a complete non threat to score during the playoffs. Would rather have Kempe if I’m trying to win a cup.

 

[justashadowof]

Uh huh. Do you like Dumba for his shit offense or shit defense?
Dumba hasn't been good for a number of years.

I can do this too! What did you like about Wendel the most? Being an atrocious defensive winger? The stupid penalties? The refusal to neutralize his cousin who was terrorizing the team every time the Leafs played the Red Wings? The dangerous predatory hits that would have had him suspended for 40 games in 2023?

 

[Notsince67]

One elevates his game and plays the playoff style of hockey while scoring just as effectively as he did in the regular season while the other cannot handle the pressure and is a complete non threat to score during the playoffs. Would rather have Kempe if I’m trying to win a cup.

Kempe vs Marner head to head on the ice...picture it.
Anyone who thinks this goes Kempe's way needs to get off the crack.

I can do this too! What did you like about Wendel the most? Being an atrocious defensive winger? The stupid penalties? The refusal to neutralize his cousin who was terrorizing the team every time the Leafs played the Red Wings? The dangerous predatory hits that would have had him suspended for 40 games in 2023?

I'm not trading Marner for the chance to get Wendel but you seem to think Dumba would be a good incentive when I doubt he can make the team.
He was literally scratched a few times this year because he is so horrible.

 

[Dog]

Trade Matthews for sure and possibly Marner depending on returns.

 

[mydnyte]

That's alot of '>'.
Kempe is a nice player but what is the huge discrepancy in the two players based on?

its almost like players can go out on the ice and play however they want, and that the style and play that the coach demands doesnt matter, nor does the quality of the oponent.
Kings got the Oilers and lost with Kempe who had a 'great' 8 points, but, Marner sucked with his 14 points. but, in some peoples opinion Kempe is better, with his career best season of 67 points (Marner's rookie season was 61 points)

 

[justashadowof]

Kempe vs Marner head to head on the ice...picture it.
Anyone who thinks this goes Kempe's way needs to get off the crack.

Comparing a $5.5M player to a $11M player. It's not a difficult concept.

 

[justashadowof]

I'm not trading Marner for the chance to get Wendel but you seem to think Dumba would be a good incentive when I doubt he can make the team.
He was literally scratched a few times this year because he is so horrible.

Insert another $5M defenseman there then. Whoosh over your head, this simple as pie concept about the redistribution of cap resources.

 

[ACC1224]

One elevates his game and plays the playoff style of hockey while scoring just as effectively as he did in the regular season while the other cannot handle the pressure and is a complete non threat to score during the playoffs. Would rather have Kempe if I’m trying to win a cup.

Yes, Kempe has been able to consistently stay under a ppg in both the regular season and the playoffs, so you'll know what you'll get in that regard.

Like I said nice player but he hasn't achieved much success team/himself, not sure how 'elevates' is measured.

Comparing a $5.5M player to a $11M player. It's not a difficult concept.

Seems to be what's being done.

 

[Notsince67]

Comparing a $5.5M player to a $11M player. It's not a difficult concept.

And now you are getting it. The sum of parts is never equal to the best player. There is. Reason why there is a saying that during a trade, the team with the best player wins. There is an opportunity cost to playing every position. 1 100 pt Marner at 10.6mm is worth far more than 2- 50 pt players at 5.3mm each, as an example. Why? Because the other player you are replacing is also generating points. It's pretty basic stuff.

 

[rumman]

Throw in a Pete Davidson autograph from Hollywood then if it makes them feel better. But Marner would go and the restructure would begin.

priceless.........

Agreed. Trapper proposed Kempe for Marner. I thought that was not enough and added Clarke who was #8OA in 2021 and probably their best prospect. You also have to consider saving 5.5m in cap space. Perhaps you can get more but it is all hearsay because they are not trading Marner. Nylander for Seider ?? Maybe Dubas does that. Not Stevie Y.

obtaining both 2 quality players AND cap space is a win win scenario imo............

 

[rumman]

Notice how the only reason you give for not trading Marner is regular season related? Kempe >>>>> Marner quite easily in the playoffs.

cap allocation and playoff failure are the two glaring problems the Leafs need to address, this kind of trade does both imo..........

People want a Draisaitl or Makar for Marner. Never going to happen. You are changing the culture, changing the way we play in the regular season and playoffs, bringing the Cap back in line that was skewered, re-signing Matthews, gaining flexibility, etc. with the moves.

34 is going to stun people here with his ask, will that change their opinion on whether he should be trade> Only time will tell, and it's running out.......tic toc.............

 

[justashadowof]

And now you are getting it. The sum of parts is never equal to the best player. There is. Reason why there is a saying that during a trade, the team with the best player wins. There is an opportunity cost to playing every position. 1 100 pt Marner at 10.6mm is worth far more than 2- 50 pt players at 5.3mm each, as an example. Why? Because the other player you are replacing is also generating points. It's pretty basic stuff.

Again, I'm going to preface that Marner is probably my favourite Leaf. Points, points, points. This ain't video game hockey. I would've thought you wouldn't be one of these fans who just think the team needs more scoring forwards? But if we're playing that game, based on points last season Kempe is 2/3s of Marner at about half the price. Sounds like a great deal especially weighing that goals have greater value than assists with contracts.

Let's talk more about these hypothetical 50 point players for a moment. How do they play in playoff traffic? How easily are they neutralized or forced to the perimeter by hard contact? Is the team a better playoff team with them in place of Marner. Who really cares about 100 points in the regular season by individual players when the team has little chance of being a successful playoff team?

And btw, I've not been talking about redistributing cap allocation just to forwards so it's a poor example.

 

[rumman]

That's alot of '>'.
Kempe is a nice player but what is the huge discrepancy in the two players based on?

imo, Kempe is better than "a nice player" if your using the O Dog's definition of nice player.........

 

[rumman]

Never underestimate the value of having players locked in and performing at a level exceeding their compensation. Same thing about players on ELCs. Cap value is king.

exactly, you don't need to be a CPA to understand this, but plenty here ignore the fiscal responsibility aspect of icing a team imo.........

 

[rumman]

Trade Matthews for sure and possibly Marner depending on returns.

if it improved the team, I'd trade anyone of the current Leafs and that's what successful teams do, they consider all possibilities...........

 

[ToneDog]

its almost like players can go out on the ice and play however they want, and that the style and play that the coach demands doesnt matter, nor does the quality of the oponent.
Kings got the Oilers and lost with Kempe who had a 'great' 8 points, but, Marner sucked with his 14 points. but, in some peoples opinion Kempe is better, with his career best season of 67 points (Marner's rookie season was 61 points)

Not sure why anybody is talking Kempe > Marner when my/the proposal was/is Kempe + Brant Clarke + 5.5m cap savings for Marner.

 

[rumman]

Comparing a $5.5M player to a $11M player. It's not a difficult concept.

winner winner chicken dinner..........

 

[ToneDog]

if it improved the team, I'd trade anyone of the current Leafs and that's what successful teams do, they consider all possibilities...........

We traded Dubas for a Primanti Brothers sandwich and we are better already. Now if we could only get rid of Geppetto, and Kyle's BFF we'd be golden.

Comparing a $5.5M player to a $11M player. It's not a difficult concept.

But then you have Tavares. Ooof.

 

[justashadowof]

34 is going to stun people here with his ask, will that change their opinion on whether he should be trade> Only time will tell, and it's running out.......tic toc.............

I fear that you may be right. The thing is the lifestyle to cost ratio is so much higher in several U.S. destinations compared to Toronto. If that's important to an individual you're never going to win this scenario, you're going to have to overpay by 10-20%.

There's another concept that we have to get our heads wrapped around. Canada is not the ideal destination for NHL superstar players. You can start with them but you're going to have trouble retaining them. We're all second class destinations now for the superstars. You have to pay a premium to retain them. You probably have to re-think how you constitute your teams north of the border or be forced to way overpay with aav and term, get the occasional exceptional case who turns down more money and lower taxes and better golf.

 

[Mess]

You would have to think Treliving looking at Calgary and wanting to bring in some of his former players would be high on his potential trade/acquire list.

With a new GM in Calgary Conroy you would think he also would like to shape the team in his vision.

This would make a good set and perhaps likely trade partners. IMO