What's going on with Tavares ?

[hotpaws]

hf leaf fans let me ask you this:

John Tavares had a good showing at the IIHF World Championships.

1st in face offs
1st in assists
12th in scoring

All biases aside/all the millions of dollars aside, does he still have value?

Does a pro scout or a GM see him and think he still has value?

Could TOR retain a little on him? Could he get TOR Futures in return?

the value is he's owed less than 1m after his bonus is paid and he only has 1 yr left on his contract , if he waives i'm sure the Hawks would take him for free and then deal him at the t/d

only his friends and family would be impressed with his 2 goals against very weak competition at the worlds

 

[Ianturnedbull]

the value is he's owed less than 1m after his bonus is paid and he only has 1 yr left on his contract , if he waives i'm sure the Hawks would take him for free and then deal him at the t/d

only his friends and family would be impressed with his 2 goals against very weak competition at the worlds

this is flat out smearing for fun

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He really doesn't suck. He's overpaid.

Kinda same thing. It’s always are you earning your cap hit.

bruins, killed PP entries everytime the puck went up his side of the ice, had all the opportunities given to him and he choked like he always does.

Keefe put him out there.

We asked for JT on PP2 starting in January

 

[myleafs]

Tavares doesn't suck.


He was top 30 in points, top 20 in goals, top 20 in hits, and perhaps the best faceoff man in the league. He is also heavy on the boards, can play the cycle game, and is good at the top of the slot. This makes him, arguably, a 1st line centre. We're using him as a 2nd line C, he is an excellent 2nd line C compared to the rest in the NHL.

His cap hit is too high, by a significant margin, but he can still be an effective player.

We know he isn't going anywhere as he'll never agree to it, and even if he did, we'd get nothing for him. We should show him respect that a captain deserves and begin the process of negotiating a sweet deal moving forward.

If you are talking about this last year he was not top 30 in points...he was 75th. 40th for centres. 49th in goals, 31st among centres. 125th in hits so def not top 20. 14th in faceoffs so pretty good there but def not the best face off man in the league. I mean your stats are not even in the same hemisphere as the facts.

 

[Clyde Brewer]

If you are talking about this last year he was not top 30 in points...he was 75th. 40th for centres. 49th in goals, 31st among centres. 125th in hits so def not top 20. 14th in faceoffs so pretty good there but def not the best face off man in the league. I mean your stats are not even in the same hemisphere as the facts.

These are the stats I am looking at for NHL centremen:

Name

Pos

GP

G

A

PTS

+/-

PIM

PPG

PPP

Hits

TOI

SOG

PTS/G

NATHAN MACKINNON

C

82​

51​

89​

140​

35​

42​

10​

48​

52​

22:49​

405​

1.71​

CONNOR MCDAVID

C

76​

32​

100​

132​

35​

30​

7​

44​

118​

21:22​

263​

1.74​

AUSTON MATTHEWS

C

81​

69​

38​

107​

31​

20​

18​

29​

90​

20:58​

368​

1.32​

LEON DRAISAITL

C

81​

41​

65​

106​

26​

76​

21​

39​

57​

20:42​

217​

1.31​

J.T. MILLER

C

81​

37​

66​

103​

32​

58​

10​

40​

212​

19:29​

194​

1.27​

SIDNEY CROSBY

C

82​

42​

52​

94​

7​

40​

10​

23​

99​

20:05​

278​

1.15​

BRAYDEN POINT

C

81​

46​

44​

90​

-16​

14​

15​

32​

17​

20:01​

229​

1.11​

SEBASTIAN AHO

C

78​

36​

53​

89​

34​

36​

11​

32​

46​

19:38​

216​

1.14​

ROBERT THOMAS

C

82​

26​

60​

86​

9​

48​

8​

27​

16​

20:58​

170​

1.05​

ALEKSANDER BARKOV

C

73​

22​

57​

79​

33​

24​

4​

28​

101​

19:38​

192​

1.08​

NICK SUZUKI

C

82​

33​

44​

77​

-14​

36​

12​

31​

67​

21:16​

185​

0.94​

VINCENT TROCHECK

C

82​

25​

52​

77​

16​

55​

11​

24​

168​

21:27​

216​

0.94​

NAZEM KADRI

C

82​

29​

46​

75​

0​

43​

10​

22​

56​

18:26​

277​

0.91​

MARK SCHEIFELE

C

74​

25​

47​

72​

19​

57​

6​

18​

63​

20:11​

154​

0.97​

MIKA ZIBANEJAD

C

81​

26​

46​

72​

15​

30​

12​

31​

49​

19:45​

221​

0.89​

ANZE KOPITAR

C

81​

26​

44​

70​

11​

22​

9​

23​

36​

19:39​

133​

0.86​

TIM STUTZLE

C

75​

18​

52​

70​

-17​

28​

1​

20​

99​

21:07​

192​

0.93​

BROCK NELSON

C

82​

34​

35​

69​

-5​

28​

9​

19​

37​

18:05​

250​

0.84​

DYLAN LARKIN

C

68​

33​

36​

69​

5​

39​

14​

26​

42​

20:10​

221​

1.01​

RYAN O'REILLY

C

82​

26​

43​

69​

6​

18​

14​

28​

26​

19:46​

180​

0.84​

BO HORVAT

C

81​

33​

35​

68​

-1​

39​

10​

18​

59​

19:42​

248​

0.84​

JACK EICHEL

C

63​

31​

37​

68​

4​

27​

11​

22​

27​

20:31​

278​

1.08​

DYLAN STROME

C

82​

27​

40​

67​

-13​

22​

6​

22​

12​

17:57​

169​

0.82​

EVGENI MALKIN

C

82​

27​

40​

67​

5​

70​

6​

18​

30​

18:35​

199​

0.82​

NICO HISCHIER

C

71​

27​

40​

67​

-5​

12​

6​

17​

43​

19:29​

182​

0.94​

JOHN TAVARES

C

80​

29​

36​

65​

2​

30​

9​

20​

135​

17:52​

279​

0.81​

MATT DUCHENE

C

80​

25​

40​

65​

15​

20​

6​

16​

30​

16:46​

172​

0.81​

ROOPE HINTZ

C

80​

30​

35​

65​

26​

22​

8​

19​

35​

17:14​

182​

0.81​

WYATT JOHNSTON

C

82​

32​

33​

65​

14​

38​

3​

10​

51​

17:00​

217​

0.79​

JOEL ERIKSSON EK

C

77​

30​

34​

64​

17​

60​

12​

21​

166​

20:32​

267​

0.83​

PAVEL BUCHNEVICH

C

80​

27​

36​

63​

3​

48​

8​

18​

42​

19:49​

207​

0.79​

CHARLIE COYLE

C

82​

25​

35​

60​

-2​

38​

7​

11​

134​

18:04​

145​

0.73​

MIKAEL GRANLUND

C

69​

12​

48​

60​

-23​

32​

1​

23​

58​

20:58​

134​

0.87​

WILLIAM KARLSSON

C

70​

30​

30​

60​

15​

22​

7​

15​

41​

17:36​

175​

0.86​

PAVEL ZACHA

C

78​

21​

38​

59​

12​

18​

6​

15​

111​

18:06​

148​

0.76​

SEAN MONAHAN

C

83​

26​

33​

59​

-1​

12​

9​

21​

28​

18:06​

171​

0.71​

CASEY MITTELSTADT

C

80​

18​

39​

57​

10​

32​

3​

9​

27​

17:44​

127​

0.71​

TAGE THOMPSON

C

71​

29​

27​

56​

-1​

43​

9​

16​

79​

18:07​

246​

0.79​

ADAM HENRIQUE

C

82​

24​

27​

51​

9​

37​

5​

10​

101​

16:51​

139​

0.62​

CHANDLER STEPHENSON

C

75​

16​

35​

51​

-9​

25​

4​

13​

43​

18:29​

97​

0.68​

J.T. COMPHER

C

77​

19​

29​

48​

-5​

34​

5​

10​

50​

19:23​

108​

0.62​

DYLAN COZENS

C

79​

18​

29​

47​

-4​

42​

2​

10​

105​

17:14​

200​

0.59​

MAX DOMI

C

80​

9​

38​

47​

10​

118​

1​

2​

56​

13:47​

137​

0.59​

PHILLIP DANAULT

C

78​

17​

30​

47​

13​

18​

3​

9​

80​

18:01​

159​

0.6​

NICHOLAS PAUL

C

82​

24​

22​

46​

-16​

27​

9​

14​

102​

17:15​

153​

0.56​

ALEX KERFOOT

C

82​

13​

32​

45​

-15​

26​

2​

12​

73​

17:26​

104​

0.55​

ANTHONY CIRELLI

C

79​

20​

25​

45​

2​

38​

3​

7​

63​

18:32​

129​

0.57​

NICK BJUGSTAD

C

76​

22​

23​

45​

11​

59​

2​

6​

116​

17:27​

165​

0.59​

TOMMY NOVAK

C

71​

18​

27​

45​

-3​

8​

6​

12​

6​

14:12​

113​

0.63​

ELIAS LINDHOLM

C

75​

15​

29​

44​

-14​

25​

6​

12​

87​

19:42​

173​

0.59​

These stats are from Regular Season Stats - Frozen Tools

This is the only source I can use now while at work, everything else is blocked.
Are these numbers incorrect?


Anyway, I am stating that he is an extremely productive 2nd line C- that is fact. His numbers put him among the top 30 C in the league (in other words, a 1C). We have been deploying him as a 2C. He is arguably one of the best 2C in the game.

I am also acknowledging that he is very much overpaid.


Edit: Now that I'm home, I can see NHL website lists players like Barzal, Pettersson, and Stamkos (to make a few) as C, but I think they mostly play wing. That could explain the discrepancies.

As far as faceoffs, he won 59.3%.
Only Michael McCloud, Nico Sturm, and Jeff Carter had a higher percentage, and they all took significantly fewer draws than Tavares.


So, my stats could be within the same hemisphere as facts after all...

 

[WillyC]

the value is he's owed less than 1m after his bonus is paid and he only has 1 yr left on his contract , if he waives i'm sure the Hawks would take him for free and then deal him at the t/d

only his friends and family would be impressed with his 2 goals against very weak competition at the worlds

Do you really think Tavares would waive for Chicago just so they can move him anywhere they choose at the TDL?

Do you know how any of this works?

 

[hotpaws]

Do you really think Tavares would waive for Chicago just so they can move him anywhere they choose at the TDL?

Do you know how any of this works?

Why wouldn't he waive ? Tavares doesn't give a f*** about anything other than padding his stats , the Hawks are so bad he'd still get his ice time and at least play the pp with Bedard .

and then after he's gotten his ice time for the majority of the season he could go to a contender as a depth piece and mumble about all the lessons he's learned after failing the last 20 yrs since jr

the alternative to not waiving is playing 12/13 mins in total on the Leafs incl on the 2nd line pp , watching his stats take a hit as well as have the rest of the NHL realize he's been carried for years by Willie/Marner and Mathews then try to get a big ufa contract after the Leafs don't offer him a extension

 

[notbias]

so you're saying Dubas paid a 1st (14th oveall) to dump Rutta who was only owed 2.5m x 1 yr to the Sharks ? I wonder how much it'll cost him to dump EK who has 3 yr x 10m left on his deal

there's no way to spin this brutal deal to try to defend Dumbass , lol

i'm also wondering if he's going to try to find a stooge to fill the GM spot to deflect away from his brutal asset mgmt or he'll say again how he doesn't want to ruin the ''synergies'' he built like he explained why he kept the GM title last year , lol

Other players were being dumped as well, you know this, right?

Also, has nothing to do with Dubas, give me another example of an 11 million dollar player being traded and we can use that as an example of how easy it'd be to move Tavares.

Your obsession is weird, move on.

 

[WillyC]

Why wouldn't he waive ? Tavares doesn't give a f*** about anything other than padding his stats , the Hawks are so bad he'd still get his ice time and at least play the pp with Bedard .

and then after he's gotten his ice time for the majority of the season he could go to a contender as a depth piece and mumble about all the lessons he's learned after failing the last 20 yrs since jr

the alternative to not waiving is playing 12/13 mins in total on the Leafs incl on the 2nd line pp , watching his stats take a hit as well as have the rest of the NHL realize he's been carried for years by Willie/Marner and Mathews then try to get a big ufa contract after the Leafs don't offer him a extension

Your constant rants about Tavares really do come across like hissy fits.

It’s gonna be a long summer for you.

 

[hotpaws]

Other players were being dumped as well, you know this, right?

Also, has nothing to do with Dubas, give me another example of an 11 million dollar player being traded and we can use that as an example of how easy it'd be to move Tavares.

Your obsession is weird, move on.

Granlund had a 60 pt season , i'd hardly consider him a dump at 5m with this yr left .

how many 11m dollar players do you think there are in the league and judging by how easy it was to trade EK and get value back it seems all you need is to do is find one incompetent moron

i'm obsessed ? lol , in case you haven't noticed your one of maybe only 3-4 Dubasites who are still actively spewing their love for our former incompetent GM . lol

Your constant rants about Tavares really do come across like hissy fits.

It’s gonna be a long summer for you.

moving the goalposts again , cool

 

[keonsbitterness]

Tavares doesn't give a f*** about anything other than padding his stats

The exact same claim can be made about our other high priced players.

 

[WillyC]

Granlund had a 60 pt season , i'd hardly consider him a dump at 5m with this yr left .

how many 11m dollar players do you think there are in the league and judging by how easy it was to trade EK and get value back it seems all you need is to do is find one incompetent moron

i'm obsessed ? lol , in case you haven't noticed your one of maybe only 3-4 Dubasites who are still actively spewing their love for our former incompetent GM . lol


moving the goalposts again , cool

Moving the goalposts?… what are you going on about?

John Tavares is not going to waive so he can get shopped around at the TDL… he is very likely going to sign an extension and retire as Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

You despise him so bad… you created this thread just so you can whine and complain about him.

Seriously… waaa, waaa, why is there no news about trading Tavares?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Karlsson is better and even retained they got Karlsson for free (or close to it), they just paid for the cap dumps they were sending back.

The market is too small for teams who can afford him, I don't see it.

I think there's a way of making your point without creating this fiction about the price (free) of E Karlsson.

Pittsburgh acquires defenseman Erik Karlsson, forward Rem Pitlick, forward Dillon Hamaliuk and San Jose's 2026 third-round draft pick.
San Jose acquires Pittsburgh's 2024 first-round draft pick (top-10 protected), forward Mikael Granlund, defenseman Jan Rutta and forward Mike Hoffman.

 

[hotpaws]

Moving the goalposts?… what are you going on about?

John Tavares is not going to waive so he can get shopped around at the TDL… he is very likely going to sign an extension and retire as Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

You despise him so bad… you created this thread just so you can whine and complain about him.

Seriously… waaa, waaa, why is there no news about trading Tavares?

I'll tell you what i'm talking about , instead of responding to my previous post you instead decided to take a personal shot at me and continue to do so .

I guess you know him much better than I do since your so confident of what his intensions are but I wonder if you also know Leaf mgmt personally since you also believe they want him back .

and just to clarify , i asked why there wasn't any rumors from the insiders about not only moving him but also about whether the team was looking at extending him

however your so consumed about defending everything Johnny Mumbles you can't wrap your head around any other possibility other than the Leafs sliding a blank contract over to him and letting him fill out the salary and term he wants

I think there's a way of making your point without creating this fiction about the price (free) of E Karlsson.

Pittsburgh acquires defenseman Erik Karlsson, forward Rem Pitlick, forward Dillon Hamaliuk and San Jose's 2026 third-round draft pick.
San Jose acquires Pittsburgh's 2024 first-round draft pick (top-10 protected), forward Mikael Granlund, defenseman Jan Rutta and forward Mike Hoffman.

• Pittsburgh acquires defenseman Erik Karlsson, forward Rem Pitlick, forward Dillon Hamaliuk and San Jose's 2026 third-round draft pick.
• San Jose acquires Pittsburgh's 2024 first-round draft pick (top-10 protected), forward Mikael Granlund, defenseman Jan Rutta and forward Mike Hoffman.
• Montreal acquires Pittsburgh's 2025 second-round draft pick, defenseman Jeff Petry, goaltender Casey DeSmith and forward Nathan Legare.

this is the exact trade then Mon dealt Petry to the Wings

Wings acquired Ann Arbor's Jeff Petry on Tuesday from the Montreal Canadiens in exchange for little-used defenseman Gustav Lindstrom and a conditional fourth-round draft pick in 2025.Aug 15, 2023

 

[notbias]

I think there's a way of making your point without creating this fiction about the price (free) of E Karlsson.

Pittsburgh acquires defenseman Erik Karlsson, forward Rem Pitlick, forward Dillon Hamaliuk and San Jose's 2026 third-round draft pick.
San Jose acquires Pittsburgh's 2024 first-round draft pick (top-10 protected), forward Mikael Granlund, defenseman Jan Rutta and forward Mike Hoffman.

There were a bunch of cap dumps... how much was Karlsson? How much was the retention? How much were the dumps?

I think he had almost no value.

How much of what was paid went towards Karlsson and how much for retention + dumping players?

 

[notbias]

Granlund had a 60 pt season , i'd hardly consider him a dump at 5m with this yr left .

You can't use something happening after the trade to try to justify how valuable someone was during the trade... this is common sense to most (maybe not all).

I am pretty sure he was considered a dump at the time of the trade.

how many 11m dollar players do you think there are in the league and judging by how easy it was to trade EK and get value back it seems all you need is to do is find one incompetent moron

Once again, the emotion you have towards someone you haven't met is weird.

There are plenty of incompetent GMs that make bad trades, look at the whole Monahan fiasco if you want to see a wonderful example.

I don't even think the Karlsson trade is bad. He isn't the reason they didn't make the playoffs (he was actually good) and the Pens are all in for likely a last year and then tearing it down.

i'm obsessed ? lol , in case you haven't noticed your one of maybe only 3-4 Dubasites who are still actively spewing their love for our former incompetent GM . lol

I didn't bring him up, you did.

I brought up the one example of a player with Tavares' salary moving.

Like I said, it is a weird obsession you have.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

There were a bunch of cap dumps... how much was Karlsson? How much was the retention? How much were the dumps?

I think he had almost no value.

How much of what was paid went towards Karlsson and how much for retention + dumping players?

You tell me. I know a lot of things. I am confident of what "free" means.

 

[Craig Button]

Why wouldn't he waive ? Tavares doesn't give a f*** about anything other than padding his stats ,…

I’m pretty sure he loves his wife and kids.

 

[notbias]

You tell me. I know a lot things. I am confident of what "free" means.

I think the price for Karlsson was close to "free".

There were a lot of cap dumps and retention involved.

You can disagree, but I am curious what you think all that is worth.

I believe you understand what the word "free" means, but I am not confident that you understand that each item in a trade holds value (positive or negative) and that Karlsson wasn't the only person being traded.

 

[hotpaws]

You can't use something happening after the trade to try to justify how valuable someone was during the trade... this is common sense to most (maybe not all).

I am pretty sure he was considered a dump at the time of the trade.



Once again, the emotion you have towards someone you haven't met is weird.

There are plenty of incompetent GMs, look at the whole Monahan fiasco if you want to see a wonderful example.



I didn't bring him up, you did.

I brought up the one example of a player with Tavares' salary moving.

Like I said, it is a weird obsession you have.

Granlund had

21/22 - 64 pts in 80 games
22-23 - 36pts in 58 games , 50 pt pace before getting traded to the Pens for 21 games to finish the season and did nothing there
23/24 - bounced back to roughly his regular numbers with 60 pts

i'm getting tired of doing work to constantly correct you


and as a decades long fan i am a bit obsessed wiyh wanting the best for this team unlike yourself who's overwhelmed with love of our former failed GM

i have to ask however why you torture yourself , just go be a Pens fan while Dubas is still employed there so you can continue worshipping with fans of a team he actually works for

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I think the price for Karlsson was close to "free".

There were a lot of cap dumps and retention involved.

You can disagree, but I am curious what you think all that is worth.

I believe you understand what the word "free" means, but I am not confident that you understand that each item in a trade holds value (positive or negative) and that Karlsson wasn't the only person being traded.

Why don't you re-type this so you don't sound so patronizing.

 

[notbias]

Granlund had

21/22 - 64 pts in 80 games
22-23 - 36pts in 58 games , 50 pt pace before getting traded to the Pens for 21 games to finish the season and did nothing there
23/24 - bounced back to roughly his regular numbers with 60 pts

i'm getting tired of doing work to constantly correct you

So if you ignore part of his season he was still below the 60 points you claimed, but if you don't ignore games that he played poorly, he was a 40 point player, great logic.

and as a decades long fan i am a bit obsessed win wanting the best for this team unlike yourself who's overwhelmed with love of our former failed GM

i have to ask however why you torture yourself , just go be a Pens fan while Dubas is still employed there so you can continue worshipping with fans of a team he actually works for

I am a Leafs fan so I will stay here, thanks for your concern.

Once again, you constantly bring him up, not me, the obsession is not healthy.

 

[hotpaws]

I’m pretty sure he loves his wife and kids.

it was obvious what i meant

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Why wouldn't he waive ? Tavares doesn't give a f*** about anything other than padding his stats , the Hawks are so bad he'd still get his ice time and at least play the pp with Bedard .

and then after he's gotten his ice time for the majority of the season he could go to a contender as a depth piece and mumble about all the lessons he's learned after failing the last 20 yrs since jr

the alternative to not waiving is playing 12/13 mins in total on the Leafs incl on the 2nd line pp , watching his stats take a hit as well as have the rest of the NHL realize he's been carried for years by Willie/Marner and Mathews then try to get a big ufa contract after the Leafs don't offer him a extension

Hater!

 

[hotpaws]

So if you ignore part of his season he was still below the 60 points you claimed, but if you don't ignore games that he played poorly, he was a 40 point player, great logic.



I am a Leafs fan so I will stay here, thanks for your concern.

Once again, you constantly bring him up, not me, the obsession is not healthy.

i gave all his stats for the last 3 seasons and included a breakdown of before and after his trade to Pitt , no idea what bs your trying to spin again

the funny thing is you still haven't realized the biggest dump in that deal was EK who you keep trying to say Dumbass got for free while paying a 1st and 2nd to dump shorter much smaller dumps , another Dumbass special trade . lol

your a Leaf fan you say ?

with Dumbass as our GM your views were

-Kadri , great trade !
-Foligno , great trade !
pretty much you thought every move was a stroke of genius

after Dumbass was kicked to the curb like a piece of trash

-every move is garbage

and now your still defending his brutal moves like trading for EK but yeah you don't worship him , lol