What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[rumman]

If the game plan is just run it back with the core 4 again you've already destroyed a good portion of this fan bases' interest for next season.

if they intend on running it back I'll see you guys in the spring for another locker clean out day so we can all wonder why doing the same thing once again didn't work...........

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I don't believe in whataboutism. Tavares being a waste doesn't make Marner's play relative to his demands acceptable.

Absolutely.

 

[hotpaws]

Cause Marner was one of the very main causes of the early exit dude, look at him floating around avoiding contact in game 7 and doing jack shit offensively. I'm not paying that guy $12.5M, f*** that noise.

no one's defending the playoffs he had but i look at Mitch like i did Kane , i'm not expecting either to provide grit/physicality but with the right linemates they can be valuable , slapping him beside a slow footed net front presence and you get what happened this playoffs

if you see it differently then that's fine and as i already said i'd trade Mitch if we can get a fair return but if we can't i'd rather overpay him then the alternative of overpaying a couple of mid tier ufa's

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Everyone I've been chatting with, including myself, agrees he's a waste of space at his current cap hit. I don't want him back at any price. Some people might take him back at a very cheap price but I don't think that's really making excuses for him. I think having him here created a negative effect that permeated the entire organization and i want him the f*** out of here.

Are both of you talking about Tavares, Marner, or one of each?

 

[LeafEgo]

we have no idea if he'll waive or to what team(s) and why would other teams offer a good return in a very limited marker as well as having no issues giving him what many here believe is an huge overpayment ?

A lot of wishful thinking that we can just shop him for the best return and that Mitch will play ball and extend with said team , The question that never gets asked is why would Mitch want to help the Leafs and weaken the team he'd agree to sign WITH long term?

If Mitch is the whiny bitch people keep saying he is why wouldn't he just say f*** you i'm playing out the year to screw the Leafs and then walk and sign where he wants without that team having to give up assets to get him ?

There are lots of good reasons why Marner may want to secure his next contract this summer and avoid a year of uncertainty under precarious circumstances - just move on and start fresh now. I dont think spite will factor into his $100M decision.

No doubt the NMC makes it difficult to navigate the transaction but it could take as little as two willing teams to enjoy full competition for his services. If we're playing game theory, cooperation between Marner and the Leafs could provide the best return for both parties this summer.

Certainly, things could fall apart for various reasons as well.

 

[hotpaws]

I think he can put up 20 goals and 20+ assists playing on the 3rd line with McMann and a decent RWer. I guess we'd need to see how much worse his skating is during the season before a decision can be made. Agree I would tread carefully.

he'd be lucky to crack 30 pts on the 3rd line and on the 2nd pp playing 3rd line mins and i doubt he'll be adequate defensively 5 on 5

he'll be 35 at the start of an extension so i have no idea how anyone would believe he wouldn't regress future and be borderline unplayable regardless of salary during some part of his extension

 

[sunstersun]

he'd be lucky to crack 30 pts on the 3rd line and on the 2nd pp playing 3rd line mins and i doubt he be adequate defensively 5 on 5

he'll be 35 at the start of an extension so i have no idea how anyone would believe he wouldn't regress future and be borderline unplayable regardless of salary during some part of his extension

He has difficulty receiving passes and every time the play dies on his stick on the PP yet people think he's gonna be a good 3C?

Please no.

 

[hotpaws]

Interestingly you totally ignored the Marner portion of this argument. Not surprised. You are so focused with complete tunnel vision on the Tavares position you took 8 YEARS AGO.

interesting how you totally ignored my post which was in direct reply to yours about JT

i'll repeat my stance on Marner again which should have been clear

-i have no problem trading him for a fair return , this differs it seems from you who believes he's useless and a net negative on this team , so there's no point in arguing this

-if we can't get a fair return i'd rather overpay him than overpay for mid tier ufa's

- i believe with the right linemates who compliment him he can be a valuable asset in the playoffs and still be a quality player in the regular season


all i read from you is he's a useless piece of crap who's needs to be gone and that's fine so we'll agree to disagree and move on

There are lots of good reasons why Marner may want to secure his next contract this summer and avoid a year of uncertainty under precarious circumstances - just move on and start fresh now. I dont think spite will factor into his $100M decision.

No doubt the NMC makes it difficult to navigate the transaction but it could take as little as two willing teams to enjoy full competition for his services. If we're playing game theory, cooperation between Marner and the Leafs could provide the best return for both parties this summer.

Certainly, things could fall apart for various reasons as well.

i can't argue with this and as i said i have zero issues trading him if we get a fair return , my point only ever was i'd rather re-sign him than get a poor return then turn around overpay in the ufa market

 

[hotpaws]

If you look at the body of work for the last 4-5 years combined it's pretty close. I want to see who has the better season in year 1 under Berube before drawing any conclusions.

if Mitch is back chances are fans opinions will flip flop every 10 games , lol

 

[57 Years No Cup]

interesting how you totally ignored my post which was in direct reply to yours about JT

i'll repeat my stance on Marner again which should have been clear

-i have no problem trading him for a fair return , this differs it seems from you who believes he's useless and a net negative on this team , so there's no point in arguing this

-if we can't get a fair return i'd rather overpay him than overpay for mid tier ufa's

- i believe with the right linemates who compliment him he can be a valuable asset in the playoffs and still be a quality player in the regular season


all i read from you is he's a useless piece of crap who's needs to be gone and that's fine so we'll agree to disagree and move on


i can't argue with this and as i said i have zero issues trading him if we get a fair return , my only point ever was i'd rather re-sign him than get a poor return then turn around overpay in the ufa market

You're totally misrepresenting what I've said. He's useless for all of the reasons that have been rehashed to death IN THE PLAYOFFS. The problem is he wants to be paid (including the Leafs standard overpay) in accordance with his regular season performance. If this team wants to COMPETE IN THE PLAYOFFS, they cannot pay him at or more than his current cap hit. We all know he won't accept any less. Thus, he needs to take a hike.

The salaries on this team MUST be rebalanced from highly paid forward towards better D and a real goalie.

PS- The Leafs need to stop overpaying EVERYONE.

 

[hotpaws]

He has difficulty receiving passes and every time the play dies on his stick on the PP yet people think he's gonna be a good 3C?

Please no.

yup and one day it's 2w then it's 3c then it's play him with Mitch then it's play him with two grinders then it's x-something is great but just bad puck luck then it'll finally be he's only got x yrs left so we might as well bitch about someone else until he's gone because he's unmovable . lol

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Too much focus on marner.

The most significant issue would be running it back with the scrub Liljegren.

They need a top 4 with legs that can pass and shoot at all costs or at least just skate and pass with good vision. Watch the boost it gives all the forwards too. All the focus needs to be here

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Too much focus on marner.

The most significant issue would be running it back with the scrub Liljegren.

They need a top 4 with legs that can pass and shoot at all costs or at least just skate and pass with good vision. Watch the boost it gives all the forwards too. All the focus needs to be here

Uh, the salary cap is a thing.

 

[hotpaws]

You're totally misrepresenting what I've said. He's useless for all of the reasons that have been rehashed to death IN THE PLAYOFFS. The problem is he wants to be paid (including the Leafs standard overpay) in accordance with his regular season performance. If this team wants to COMPETE IN THE PLAYOFFS, they cannot pay him at or more than his current cap hit. We all know he won't accept any less. Thus, he needs to take a hike.

The salaries on this team MUST be rebalanced from highly paid forward towards better D and a real goalie.

PS- The Leafs need to stop overpaying EVERYONE.

cool but that overpaying horse left the barn the second Dumbass overpaid to get an unneeded 2nd line C 6 yrs ago ,

now Tre has to play the hand that was dealt to him and hope he can correct the problem with the next group of kids that come due after their elc's are up

i don't see him getting much more than he's getting now which is already an overpayment , probably somewhere between 11.5/12m x 8yrs and if that's too high for you then fine but lets not pretend if we dump him we're going to sign any quality ufa's at fair value and i don't mean fair ufa value which means they're also overpaid

 

[57 Years No Cup]

cool but that overpaying horse left the barn the second Dumbass overpaid to get an unneeded 2nd line C 6 yrs ago ,

now Tre has to play the hand that was dealt to him and hope he can correct the problem with the next group of kids that come due after their elc's are up

i don't see him getting much more than he's getting now which is already an overpayment , probably somewhere between 11.5/12m x 8yrs and if that's too high for you then fine but lets not pretend if we dump him we're going to sign any quality ufa's at fair value and i don't mean fair ufa value which means they're also overpaid

You don't know that at all. Hopefully the New Sheriff In Town (Tree) gets control of that. But you may be right as Shanahan's still here.

 

[hotpaws]

You don't know that at all. Hopefully the New Sheriff In Town (Tree) gets control of that. But you may be right as Shanahan's still here.

how many of the younger quality ufa's don't get more than their worth ? so Tre steps up and pays or they'll sign with someone who will

 

[LeafEgo]

i can't argue with this and as i said i have zero issues trading him if we get a fair return , my only point ever was i'd rather re-sign him than get a poor return then turn around overpay in the ufa market

You're over paying in both scenarios, so it's just a question of Marner vs the return/UFA's to support playoff runs over the next 5+ years.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Too much focus on marner.

The most significant issue would be running it back with the scrub Liljegren.

They need a top 4 with legs that can pass and shoot at all costs or at least just skate and pass with good vision. Watch the boost it gives all the forwards too. All the focus needs to be here

That's exactly it. We have so many glaring roster problems a 90+ point penalty killer is not that high up there on the list of issues. Need upgrades on D , a legit goaltender to split the load , bottom 6 scoring because Kampf and Jarnkrok are not moving the needle. I'm really liking that Marner is meeting 1 on 1 with Berube and I'm willing to give him a chance to transform his game under a new coach. The real dead cap space that has to be moved is Kampf , Liljegren, Jarnkrok and Tavares. That's roughly 17 million to use right there.

 

[hotpaws]

You're over paying in both scenarios, so it's just a question of Marner vs the return/UFA's to support playoff runs over the next 5+ years.

that is the million dollar question and this ufa market does have some quality players so far , we'll see who gets too July 1st without being re-signed but there are a large number of teams with cap space so the pieces might b nuts

 

[keonsbitterness]

then he got bumped back up as well as back on pp1 which he killed but this season leave him on the wing on the 3rd line and cut his mins down to 12-14 and we'll see how much of a gift he feels it is

you also forgot the part about not offering him an extension , so his options are to leave or retire after this year and i doubt he wants to retire so he'll be leaving Toronto either this summer or next

Why would he care about no extension here, and why should the Leafs think that right now without seeing how 24-25 goes? He could put up 90 points (yeah, I know) or 30, and the team could win the Cup or suffer another early exit. The Leafs will have most of the leverage over him a year from now, and all of it if he's desperate to stay as a 35 year-old.

 

[hotpaws]

Why would he care about no extension here, and why should the Leafs think that right now without seeing how 24-25 goes? He could put up 90 points (yeah, I know) or 30, and the team could win the Cup or suffer another early exit. The Leafs will have most of the leverage over him a year from now, and all of it if he's desperate to stay as a 35 year-old.

it was about how some people were saying he never waive because he didn't want to uproot his family and go to another team

 

[keonsbitterness]

it was about how some people were saying he never waive because he didn't want to uproot his family and go to another team

He might waive to chase a Cup if we're in 25th place at the deadline.

I'm all for asking him right now, but I think there is little chance he'll say yes.

 

[rumman]

how many of the younger quality ufa's don't get more than their worth ? so Tre steps up and pays or they'll sign with someone who will

Good, let the other teams make those mistakes……….

 

[hotpaws]

Good, let the other teams make those mistakes……….

that's fine but then how do we improve our team by moving Mitch like you want then not buying ufa's ?

even if Cowan and a few other of our picks hit there ceilings it'll take a few years for that to happen so basically you advocating for us to just spin our wheels for a few years in hopes our kids pan out before Mathews and Wiliie decline

 

[rumman]

that's fine but then how do we improve our team by moving Mitch like you want then not buying ufa's ?

even if Cowan and a few other of our picks hit there ceilings it'll take a few years for that to happen so basically you advocating for us to just spin our wheels for a few years in hopes our kids pan out before Mathews and Wiliie decline

You wait until free agent frenzy is over, just like they did to get Domi and Bert………