What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[57 Years No Cup]

they've won obviously won nothing with the ''3 amigos'' but they've also won nothing with Tavares as well so why is Marner being singled out since he's no worse than Mathews in the playoffs and better than Tavares ?

if we keep and re-sign Marner but move JT this off season after his bonus is paid and use his cap hit for D and better depth how does that not leave the team in better shape than compared to moving Mitch who's a 90 plus point play driver who is also very good defensively and re-signing JT ?

there's no perfect solution , just solutions that are better than others

 

[ToneDog]

He's throwing a hissy fit defending Marner because fans are blaming Marner and not so much Tavares, who he pretty much rips on an hourly basis.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

He's throwing a hissy fit defending Marner because fans are blaming Marner and not so much Tavares, who he pretty much rips on an hourly basis.

He's a prime example of someone so married to an original position he took YEARS AGO that he can't see the forest thru the trees.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

JT is staying. The team will not ask a guy who came home and their captain to waive and I am not gambling Nylander+ money to see if he can figure it out. He needs to be gone from our PP and team.

If you paid for a Ferrari but got a Lexus, would you buy the same car a second time?

Car guy here, I'm quite OK with paying for a Ferrari 328 but receiving a Lexus LFA in return lol.

Except for us, we paid for a LaFerrari Aperta and received a Lexus RC-F Track Edition.

 

[hotpaws]

Why did Matthew Tkachuk? At the end of the day Mitch is all about the money. He will follow the money if it is not here.

- MT was willing to sign for 9.5m
- Hubs and Weeger were also both pending ufa's and Florida couldn't re-sign MT and both of them

and i keep hearing MT is a much better player so why would we expect this type of return for Marner

I don't think Mitch is as much about the money as he is wanting to be paid/treated like Tavares and Mathews , Willie also seems to have this mindset

 

[hotpaws]

He's throwing a hissy fit defending Marner because fans are blaming Marner and not so much Tavares, who he pretty much rips on an hourly basis.

more like i'm seeing the situation much clearer than those who are still pissed after anther early exist

as far as Tavares goes , there seem to be many people who can't admit he was never the player they thought he was and can't admit it was a huge mistake signing him

 

[57 Years No Cup]

more like i'm seeing the situation much clearer than those who are still pissed after anther early exist

as far as Tavares goes , there seem to be many people who can't admit he was never the player they thought he was and can't admit it was a huge mistake signing him

Wrong.

 

[hotpaws]

He's a prime example of someone so married to an original position he took YEARS AGO that he can't see the forest thru the trees.

those would be the Tavares fan club who can't admit he's overpaid/overrated and want him re-signed at a lower cap hit so their faith in him can be rewarded

 

[Whacky5]

we have no idea if he'll waive or to what team(s) and why would other teams offer a good return in a very limited marker as well as having no issues giving him what many here believe is an huge overpayment ?

A lot of wishful thinking that we can just shop him for the best return and that Mitch will play ball and extend with said team , The question that never gets asked is why would Mitch want to help the Leafs and weaken the team he'd agree to sign WITH long term?

If Mitch is the whiny bitch people keep saying he is why wouldn't he just say f*** you i'm playing out the year to screw the Leafs and then walk and sign where he wants without that team having to give up assets to get him ?

Good, let him walk. The culture has to change here. JT can go fly a kite for all I care too. For his "We were right there" comments, I want this mentality out of this team before the young guys, like Minten and Cowen, start playing for the team. We need heavy duty changes on the team.

For the future, guys like Cowen and Minten, they are gonna be the leaders. I don't want Mitch the bitch and Johnny Mumbles affecting these guys.

 

[notDatsyuk]

no excuses you say

-keep him because he would cost too much to trade and oh lets re-sign him while we're at it
-keep him because he did us a favor for coming home and only signing for the highest salary in the league
-keep him because if we ask him to waive no other ufa's will sign with us

these are just a few and the list keeps growing , lol

I didn't say there were no excuses, but the main argument seems to be the cost of getting rid of him.

Maybe just how you define 'reason' and 'excuse'.

"Keep him because he would cost too much to trade" sounds reasonable to me. (Wanting to re-sign him is more of a mental aberration.)

The idea that he did us a favor by coming home and taking a pay cut (yeah, right!) to do so is more an excuse for Dubas' mistake. A different issue.

"Keep him because if we ask him to waive no other ufa's will sign with us" is pretty lame, but there could be a grain of truth in it.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

those would be the Tavares fan club who can't admit he's overpaid/overrated and want him re-signed at a lower cap hit so their faith in him can be rewarded

Or maybe can actually deal with the present and the actual circumstances on the ground.

Good, let him walk. The culture has to change here. JT can go fly a kite for all I care too. For his "We were right there" comments, I want this mentality out of this team before the young guys, like Minten and Cowen, start playing for the team. We need heavy duty changes on the team.

For the future, guys like Cowen and Minten, they are gonna be the leaders. I don't want Mitch the bitch and Johnny Mumbles affecting these guys.

Well said and reasonable.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

those would be the Tavares fan club who can't admit he's overpaid/overrated and want him re-signed at a lower cap hit so their faith in him can be rewarded

Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't seen many, if any, people defending Captain Mumbles. Signing him turned out to be an unequivocal mistake and there's no argument to the contrary worth listening to.

 

[ToneDog]

more like i'm seeing the situation much clearer than those who are still pissed after anther early exist

as far as Tavares goes , there seem to be many people who can't admit he was never the player they thought he was and can't admit it was a huge mistake signing him

I was all for signing Tavares but I'll call a spade a spade, He has become more painful to watch over the past few years. In hindsight we probably would have been better off not signing him but @ $3m or less he would be good value, IMO. I have no problem with whatever they decide to do with him going forward.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It's not, and the regular season counts for a lot more than people think in contract extension talks.

Are you still one of the rapidly dwindling few who think Marner is a better player than Nylander?

 

[IPS]

Marner was close to ppg before these playoffs so lets stop acting like his play falls off a cliff in the post season and who says they have no plans to re-sign him ? he was also coming off a high ankle sprain which if it was JT would be used as an excuse for the next 3 yrs . lol

I far from the love the idea of overpaying Mitch when AM/Willlie are already overpaid but i love the idea of getting a sub par return and then overpaying mid tier ufa players to replace him worse !

if they can get a fair return for Mitch that improves the team then move him but that for me applies to every player on our team , i just don't see that happening so that's why i'd rather keep him move JT for nothing and use his cap hit to round out the team , for some reason that isn't enough revenge for another failed season for some in this fan base

Mitch's problems in the playoffs go far beyond production.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Are you still one of the rapidly dwindling few who think Marner is a better player than Nylander?

If you look at the body of work for the last 4-5 years combined it's pretty close. I want to see who has the better season in year 1 under Berube before drawing any conclusions.

 

[IPS]

more like i'm seeing the situation much clearer than those who are still pissed after anther early exist

Cause Marner was one of the very main causes of the early exit dude, look at him floating around avoiding contact in game 7 and doing jack shit offensively. I'm not paying that guy $12.5M, f*** that noise.

 

[hotpaws]

Or maybe can actually deal with the present and the actual circumstances on the ground.

the present and actual circumstances on the ground are that

-he is only owed less an 1m after his bonus is paid
-if the team doesn't offer him an extension he'll have to retire if he doesn't want to leave Toronto which i doubt he does
-i don't see much of cost if any to move him since there are teams with cap space like Utah and Chicago who i could see wanting him for a yr even at his cap hit if he waives to them

now maybe he won't waive or waive to a team that would take him but the alternative for him is he'll be moving on a year from now regardless

 

[hotpaws]

Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't seen many, if any, people defending Captain Mumbles. Signing him turned out to be an unequivocal mistake and there's no argument to the contrary worth listening to.

seriously ?

how many times do you need to see people making excuses for him or read how many want to re-sign ?

 

[hotpaws]

I was all for signing Tavares but I'll call a spade a spade, He has become more painful to watch over the past few years. In hindsight we probably would have been better off not signing him but @ $3m or less he would be good value, IMO. I have no problem with whatever they decide to do with him going forward.

he would have been good value in the regular season this year , but not even at that cap hit in the playoffs so why would you believe he'd be good value at 3m per for another 2/3 yrs starting from two seasons from now ?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

seriously ?

how many times do you need to see people making excuses for him or read how many want to re-sign ?

Everyone I've been chatting with, including myself, agrees that JT is a waste of space at his current cap hit. I don't want him back at any price. Some people might take him back at a very cheap price but I don't think that's really making excuses for him. I think having him here created a negative effect that permeated the entire organization and i want him the f*** out of here.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't seen many, if any, people defending Captain Mumbles. Signing him turned out to be an unequivocal mistake and there's no argument to the contrary worth listening to.

Hotpaws is making it an either/or situation as to whether to move on from Tavares or Marner but most are either saying 1) why not both, or 2) Tavares if he'll work cheap is worth keeping around as a 3C if he accepts a cheap contract.

There is no chance in H E L L that Marner accepts a cheap contract which is why out the door he must go.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Hotpaws is making it an either/or situation as to whether to move on from Tavares or Marner but most are either saying 1) why not both, or 2) Tavares if he'll work cheap is worth keeping around as a 3C if he accepts a cheap contract.

There is no chance in H E L L that Marner accepts a cheap contract which is why out the door he must go.

I don't believe in whataboutism. Tavares being a waste doesn't make Marner's play relative to his demands acceptable.

 

[ToneDog]

he would have been good value in the regular season this year , but not even at that cap hit in the playoffs so why would you believe he'd be good value at 3m per for another 2/3 yrs starting from two seasons from now ?

I think he can put up 20 goals and 20+ assists playing on the 3rd line with McMann and a decent RWer. I guess we'd need to see how much worse his skating is during the season before a decision can be made. Agree I would tread carefully.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

the present and actual circumstances on the ground are that

-he is only owed less an 1m after his bonus is paid
-if the team doesn't offer him an extension he'll have to retire if he doesn't want to leave Toronto which i doubt he does
-i don't see much of cost if any to move him since there are teams with cap space like Utah and Chicago who i could see wanting him for a yr even at his cap hit if he waives to them

now maybe he won't waive or waive to a team that would take him but the alternative for him is he'll be moving on a year from now regardless

Interestingly you totally ignored the Marner portion of this argument. Not surprised. You are so focused with complete tunnel vision on the Tavares position you took 8 YEARS AGO.