What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[notbias]

Considering how they have played in recent years, particularly in the playoffs, Nylander's contract is the ceiling, not the floor.

It's not, and the regular season counts for a lot more than people think in contract extension talks.

 

[keonsbitterness]

JT's the one that HAS to go and as i've already said he'll waive if the team informs him they won't offer him an extension and use him in a reduced role for his final year if he wants to stay

JT got bumped down at times this past season. Why would he waive for a reduced role? That's a gift, not a threat.

 

[ToneDog]

i'm thinking much clearer than most on this topic , i'm just not blinded by anger and looking to target someone for revenge over another failed season

The single biggest issue on this team right now is Tavares chewing up 11m in cap , that problem isn't solved by hoping a consistent 90 plus point player waives so we can trade him for pennies on the dollar . Oh but he's he's crap in the playoffs yet JT has always been worse yet people keep screaming he gave us a discount at 11m per and were thrilled we signed him and now people still want to re-sign him regardless of how poor he's been in the post season . Truly remarkable how obsessed people are with keeping JT on the Leafs even though he's destroyed our window the last 6yrs .

Thinking they will resign and wanting to resign him are two different things but again you are obsessed with him so you ignore what people are saying. As Mike Johnson said this weekend, he is still a good player and it will probably cost more to move and replace him. He's got one more year, you are going to have to suck it up or find a new hobby.

 

[ToneDog]

Tavares at 3M is fine with me, hell give him a NMC too. Take the captaincy away and put him in a reduced role that suits his pay and it's not a problem at all.

Mitch at his rumored demands his a disaster that will sink the Leafs without question. Look at all the cap structures around the league, nobody is paying more than 1 winger a super high salary.

Dumping Tavares is fine if they can do it, but resigning Marner at his ask is a joke that I think this organization finally realizes they cannot and will not make.

Moving Marner is a must IMO. Moving off Tavares would be nice but we can live with him for another year. Not sure why some cannot see the big picture.

 

[darrylsittler27]

If Marner refuses to waive you build 3 even scoring lines and take him off the p.p effectively making him a 3rd line player. You make him carry his own line. This will devalue him as Berube won't use him much in the playoffs. You also put Cowan on the team.

 

[hotpaws]

JT got bumped down at times this past season. Why would he waive for a reduced role? That's a gift, not a threat.

then he got bumped back up as well as back on pp1 which he killed but this season leave him on the wing on the 3rd line and cut his mins down to 12-14 and we'll see how much of a gift he feels it is

you also forgot the part about not offering him an extension , so his options are to leave or retire after this year and i doubt he wants to retire so he'll be leaving Toronto either this summer or next

 

[Darcy Tucker]

then he got bumped back up as well as back on pp1 which he killed but this season leave him on the wing on the 3rd line and cut his mins down to 12-14 and we'll see how much of a gift he feels it is

you also forgot the part about not offering him an extension , so his options are to leave or retire after this year and i doubt he wants to retire so he'll be leaving Toronto either this summer or next

If he doesn't sort out his tax problems he will be slepping away on a 4th line in some American outpost until he's 40.

I think his lack of speed and toughness make him a liability come the playoffs. Reduced rolls are for players like Jamie Benn who bring more than a bit of offense.

 

[hotpaws]

Thinking they will resign and wanting to resign him are two different things but again you are obsessed with him so you ignore what people are saying. As Mike Johnson said this weekend, he is still a good player and it will probably cost more to move and replace him. He's got one more year, you are going to have to suck it up or find a new hobby.

and as Hazy B responded to him , he doesn't give a f*** what he did at the Worlds against poor competition since he needed to show something two weeks earlier in the playoffs

so because you believe the team will re-sign him you have to join the run Mitch put of town for peanuts crew and defend keeping Tavares ? what sense does this make ? what the team may or may not do shouldn't impact what you liked to see happen

 

[hotpaws]

If he doesn't sort out his tax problems he will be slepping away on a 4th line in some American outpost until he's 40.

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I think his lack of speed and toughness make him a liability come the playoffs. Reduced rolls are for players like Jamie Benn who bring more than a bit of offense.

i think we should start a gofundme account , a special person like Johnny should be above paying taxes

I agree and that's why i don't want to have him back at any price

 

[ToneDog]

and as Hazy B responded to him , he doesn't give a f*** what he did at the Worlds against poor competition since he needed to show something two weeks earlier in the playoffs

so because you believe the team will re-sign him you have to join the run Mitch put of town for peanuts crew and defend keeping Tavares ? what sense does this make ? what the team may or may not do shouldn't impact what you liked to see happen

Only an idiot would be on a "run Mitch put of town for peanuts crew". I am on trade Mitch because this core needs to be changed and he is a pending UFA and he is not worth his ask. It has nothing to do with Tavares.

 

[hotpaws]

Only an idiot would be on a "run Mitch put of town for peanuts crew". I am on trade Mitch because this core needs to be changed and he is a pending UFA and he is not worth his ask. It has nothing to do with Tavares.

Marner has a full nmc , he controls if and where he waives too which means we can't shop him to the highest bidder and make him sign an extension with said team just so we can maximize the return .

so if he does waive the chances of getting even close to fair value for him are slim and if he doesn't waive he walks and then the options are trade assets that we don't have to spare for replacements or overpay for ufa's

but hey who gives a f*** if the team is worse since we got our pound of flesh and we'll have a re-signed Johnny to watch stumble around the ice

 

[ToneDog]

Marner has a full nmc , he controls if and where he waives too which means we can't shop him to the highest bidder and make him sign an extension with said team just so we can maximize the return .

so if he does waive the chances of getting even close to fair value for him are slim and if he doesn't waive he walks and then the options are trade assets that we don't have to spare for replacements or overpay for ufa's

but hey who gives a f*** if the team is worse since we got our pound of flesh and we'll have a re-signed Johnny to watch stumble around the ice

What have we won with Marner ? Even if you do not get fair value, you have to move on or he walks for nothing. The 3 amigos have proven they cannot win you a SC. Again, Tavares has nothing to do with moving off Marner but you refuse to let it go.

 

[34]

Marner is not going to waive. He is going going to dig his heels in and stick it to the Leafs. Paul is going to want $14M a season.

In all honestly, just healthy scratch him. Toxic player.

 

[LeafEgo]

Marner has a full nmc , he controls if and where he waives too which means we can't shop him to the highest bidder and make him sign an extension with said team just so we can maximize the return .

so if he does waive the chances of getting even close to fair value for him are slim and if he doesn't waive he walks and then the options are trade assets that we don't have to spare for replacements or overpay for ufa's

but hey who gives a f*** if the team is worse since we got our pound of flesh and we'll have a re-signed Johnny to watch stumble around the ice

Once the NMC is waived, Marners camp and the Leafs are fairly well aligned in the market. Both will be interested in the teams most interested in Mitch. One for the return and one for the contract.

It could go sideways but a good return is very possible.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

What have we won with Marner ? Even if you do not get fair value, you have to move on or he walks for nothing. The 3 amigos have proven they cannot win you a SC. Again, Tavares has nothing to do with moving off Marner but you refuse to let it go.

Well they were considered the core 4 right? And considering Tavares had a similarly huge contract to Marner they do have something to do with eachother. Getting rid of JTs money makes things alot easier to breathe. It seems people want Tavares gone and throw in Marner too not the other way around. Marner is 27 I can understand those that arent sellers on him. Wanting Tavares back as the captain after all these failures is lunacy. Thats what comes with the captaincy , accountability for failure. Tavares doesn't have enough platitudes in his robotic brian to survive more failure here. Both parties need a fresh start.

 

[ToneDog]

Well they were considered the core 4 right? And considering Tavares had a similarly huge contract to Marner they do have something to do with eachother. Getting rid of JTs money makes things alot easier to breathe. It seems people want Tavares gone and throw in Marner too not the other way around. Marner is 27 I can understand those that arent sellers on him. Wanting Tavares back as the captain after all these failures is lunacy. Thats what comes with the captaincy , accountability for failure. Tavares doesn't have enough platitudes in his robotic brian to survive more failure here. Both parties need a fresh start.

Ideally you move both and free up tons of cap space. You also have to ask yourself, are you paying Marner $100m on his next deal? If no, then why would you not move him this summer?

If yes, give your head a shake because most of Leaf nation has seen enough.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Ideally you move both and free up tons of cap space. You also have to ask yourself, are you paying Marner $100m on his next deal? If no, then why would you not move him this summer?

If yes, give your head a shake because most of Leaf nation has seen enough.

I understand your frustrations and they are valid. Especially the albatross contract he wants. But Marner has room to perform still. Tavares looks ready for a sharp drop off. Maybe if this was the dead puck era Tavares could still be effective with his faceoffs and downlow play but today's game is fast paced and unrelenting and Tavares doesn't have the physical ability to keep up. He doesn't play tough but all those small beatings he took around the crease seems to have added up because he is a shell of himself at age 33 (34 by training camp).

 

[ToneDog]

I understand your frustrations and they are valid. Especially the albatross contract he wants. But Marner has room to perform still. Tavares looks ready for a sharp drop off. Maybe if this was the dead puck era Tavares could still be effective with his faceoffs and downlow play but today's game is fast paced and unrelenting and Tavares doesn't have the physical ability to keep up. He doesn't play tough but all those small beatings he took around the crease seems to have added up because he is a shell of himself at age 33 (34 by training camp).

Agreed on Tavares. He is painful to watch at times but he'd be useful under Berube on our 3rd line at $3m or less. Marner @ $12.5m is suicide IMO. It is not happening here folks.

 

[hotpaws]

What have we won with Marner ? Even if you do not get fair value, you have to move on or he walks for nothing. The 3 amigos have proven they cannot win you a SC. Again, Tavares has nothing to do with moving off Marner but you refuse to let it go.

they've won obviously won nothing with the ''3 amigos'' but they've also won nothing with Tavares as well so why is Marner being singled out since he's no worse than Mathews in the playoffs and better than Tavares ?

if we keep and re-sign Marner but move JT this off season after his bonus is paid and use his cap hit for D and better depth how does that not leave the team in better shape than compared to moving Mitch who's a 90 plus point play driver who is also very good defensively and re-signing JT ?

there's no perfect solution , just solutions that are better than others

 

[ToneDog]

they've won obviously won nothing with the ''3 amigos'' but they've also won nothing with Tavares as well so why is Marner being singled out since he's no worse than Mathews in the playoffs and better than Tavares ?

if we keep and re-sign Marner but move JT this off season after his bonus is paid and use his cap hit for D and better depth how does that not leave the team in better shape than compared to moving Mitch who's a 90 plus point play driver who is also very good defensively and re-signing JT ?

there's no perfect solution , just solutions that are better than others

I got no problem moving off Tavares. My problem is why keep a pending UFA in Marner if we have no plans to resign him at his ask? When they signed Willie, it signaled to me that Marner's days here were numbered. After he failed to step up once again in the playoffs, I need no more convincing.

 

[hotpaws]

Once the NMC is waived, Marners camp and the Leafs are fairly well aligned in the market. Both will be interested in the teams most interested in Mitch. One for the return and one for the contract.

It could go sideways but a good return is very possible.

we have no idea if he'll waive or to what team(s) and why would other teams offer a good return in a very limited marker as well as having no issues giving him what many here believe is an huge overpayment ?

A lot of wishful thinking that we can just shop him for the best return and that Mitch will play ball and extend with said team , The question that never gets asked is why would Mitch want to help the Leafs and weaken the team he'd agree to sign WITH long term?

If Mitch is the whiny bitch people keep saying he is why wouldn't he just say f*** you i'm playing out the year to screw the Leafs and then walk and sign where he wants without that team having to give up assets to get him ?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

yeah and it was pretty bad and stupid, you can look back at my posts criticizing him if you like. so let's not make the same mistake twice.

That Nylander contract was definitely a black mark on an otherwise decent 1st year for Tre.

 

[hotpaws]

I got no problem moving off Tavares. My problem is why keep a pending UFA in Marner if we have no plans to resign him at his ask? When they signed Willie, it signaled to me that Marner's days here were numbered. After he failed to step up once again in the playoffs, I need no more convincing.

Marner was close to ppg before these playoffs so lets stop acting like his play falls off a cliff in the post season and who says they have no plans to re-sign him ? he was also coming off a high ankle sprain which if it was JT would be used as an excuse for the next 3 yrs . lol

I far from the love the idea of overpaying Mitch when AM/Willlie are already overpaid but i love the idea of getting a sub par return and then overpaying mid tier ufa players to replace him worse !

if they can get a fair return for Mitch that improves the team then move him but that for me that applies to every player on our team , i just don't see that happening so that's why i'd rather keep him move JT for nothing and use his cap hit to round out the team , for some reason that isn't enough revenge for another failed season for some in this fan base

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Marner has a full nmc , he controls if and where he waives too which means we can't shop him to the highest bidder and make him sign an extension with said team just so we can maximize the return .

so if he does waive the chances of getting even close to fair value for him are slim and if he doesn't waive he walks and then the options are trade assets that we don't have to spare for replacements or overpay for ufa's

but hey who gives a f*** if the team is worse since we got our pound of flesh and we'll have a re-signed Johnny to watch stumble around the ice

 

[ToneDog]

we have no idea if he'll waive or to what team(s) and why would other teams offer a good return in a very limited marker as well as having no issues giving him what many here believe is an huge overpayment ?

A lot of wishful thinking that we can just shop him for the best return and that Mitch will play ball and extend with said team , The question that never gets asked is why would Mitch want to help the Leafs and weaken the team he'd agree to sign WITH long term?

If Mitch is the whiny bitch people keep saying he is why wouldn't he just say f*** you i'm playing out the year to screw the Leafs and then walk and sign where he wants without that team having to give up assets to get him ?

Why did Matthew Tkachuk? At the end of the day Mitch is all about the money. He will follow the money if it is not here.