Blue Jays Discussion: :( well it was a hell of a ride

[TootooTrain]

Jays aren't "perfectly built" for the dome, they're simply better built for ballparks that encourage home runs.

KC, however, is perfectly built for their home park.

So Kauffman is vastly different to any other larger park how exactly.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Gibbons didn't care about home field advantage.

Proof:
- played the scrubs for 2 games In Baltimore.
- didn't start Price after the AL East was clinched.
- <add your proof here>

And here we are .... playing the team in a park that isn't good for us.

Thanks Gibby.

Price better be yanked today quickly if he has any problems.

So Kauffman is vastly different to any other larger park how exactly.

He didn't say that.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Did someone claim that Kauffman was a worse overall hitters park? I believe the claim was that Kauffman favours KC's hitters over the Jays hitters as a greater proportion of their runs are scored from non-home run hits.

The Blue Jays had a higher amount of total bases than the Royals when one discludes homeruns.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

[Kurtz]

So Kauffman is vastly different to any other larger park how exactly.

KC is built for a large park like Kauffman. They would also do very well in other large parks like Kauffman because they're built for large parks.

 

[TootooTrain]

Jays aren't "perfectly built" for the dome, they're simply better built for ballparks that encourage home runs.

KC, however, is perfectly built for their home park.

KC is built for a large park like Kauffman. They would also do very well in other large parks like Kauffman because they're built for large parks.

 

[Kurtz]

The Blue Jays had a higher amount of total bases than the Royals when one discludes homeruns.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Right, Jays had a better hitting team. What you want to look at is the ratio of runs scored from home runs vs total runs scored for each respective team to find which team benefits more from a HR suppressing park.

 

[ryno23]

Did someone claim that Kauffman was a worse overall hitters park? I believe the claim was that Kauffman favours KC's hitters over the Jays hitters as a greater proportion of their runs are scored from non-home run hits.

I get what your saying. KC lineup is built for hitting at Kauffman. They have a bunch of gap hitters and play 1st to 3rd game very well. They run the bases well and while not having tons of power they can hit homers when they move to a small park such as Rogers Centre

The Jays on the other than hit tons of homers at home and in a park like Kaufman those flyball homers are caught on the warning track or have no chance to go out.

While they can hit doubles they struggle to adjust and still try to hit homers in a park that doesn't favor that approach.

It's like in slopitch we play against teams who mash the ball in a 260 foot fence with fence scrappers while we hit 300 foot bombs( well not me haha) and when those teams play us in a 300 foot diamond all those 260 fence scrapper homers are now outs.

Park plays bigger and KC plays it to their advantage. Toronto must adjust their swings and play gap to gap tonight and work the alleys.

With that approach if you run into one it might go but at least you have given yourself a chance to hit a double or hard line up the middle.

 

[Kurtz]

I'm sorry that you're confused still. I tried to put it in the simplest terms for you.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Gibbons didn't care about home field advantage.

Proof:
- played the scrubs for 2 games In Baltimore.
- didn't start Price after the AL East was clinched.
- <add your proof here>

And here we are .... playing the team in a park that isn't good for us.

Thanks Gibby.

Price better be yanked today quickly if he has any problems.



He didn't say that.

Back to this again, are we?

It still doesn't matter. The fact is the Jays offense had gone cold and it probably would have happened be it in KC or Houston. They had a fairly difficult time hitting in their own park up until game 5 of the ALDS too.

Kansas City only has a low amount of HR's because their line up as almost **** all for power.

 

[Kurtz]

I get what your saying. KC lineup is built for hitting at Kauffman. They have a bunch of gap hitters and play 1st to 3rd game very well. They run the bases well and while not having tons of power they can hit homers when they move to a small park such as Rogers Centre

The Jays on the other than hit tons of homers at home and in a park like Kaufman those flyball homers are caught on the warning track or have no chance to go out.

While they can hit doubles they struggle to adjust and still try to hit homers in a park that doesn't favor that approach.

It's like in slopitch we play against teams who mash the ball in a 260 foot fence with fence scrappers while we hit 300 foot bombs( well not me haha) and when those teams play us in a 300 foot diamond all those 260 fence scrapper homers are now outs.

Park plays bigger and KC plays it to their advantage. Toronto must adjust their swings and play gap to gap tonight and work the alleys.

With that approach if you run into one it might go but at least you have given yourself a chance to hit a double or hard line up the middle.

Finally, thank you. I didn't realize my points were that difficult to comprehend. Also on top of the points you've made, as Eyeda pointed out, KC's outfielders also give them an advantage defensively in a big park, whereas we have Bautista out there.

 

[Discoverer]

I get what your saying. KC lineup is built for hitting at Kauffman. They have a bunch of gap hitters and play 1st to 3rd game very well. They run the bases well and while not having tons of power they can hit homers when they move to a small park such as Rogers Centre

The Jays on the other than hit tons of homers at home and in a park like Kaufman those flyball homers are caught on the warning track or have no chance to go out.

While they can hit doubles they struggle to adjust and still try to hit homers in a park that doesn't favor that approach.

It's like in slopitch we play against teams who mash the ball in a 260 foot fence with fence scrappers while we hit 300 foot bombs( well not me haha) and when those teams play us in a 300 foot diamond all those 260 fence scrapper homers are now outs.

Park plays bigger and KC plays it to their advantage. Toronto must adjust their swings and play gap to gap tonight and work the alleys.

With that approach if you run into one it might go but at least you have given yourself a chance to hit a double or hard line up the middle.

You know the Jays also hit more doubles than the Royals, right?

Trying to adjust is a bad idea. They hit a lot of HR, but the idea that they're up there specifically looking to hit HR just isn't true. They go up trying to make hard contact, and that's the best way to get good results. Because their core offensive players are really strong, swing extremely hard, and have good eyes at the plate, they hit a lot of HR.

 

[TootooTrain]

I'm sorry that you're confused still. I tried to put it in the simplest terms for you.

Indeed. If the jays aren't perfectly built for their park and are simply built for run of the mill bandboxes, the opposite should be correct. Yet somehow the royals are "perfectly built" for their home park.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Gibbons didn't care about home field advantage.

Proof:
- played the scrubs for 2 games In Baltimore.
- didn't start Price after the AL East was clinched.
- <add your proof here>

And here we are .... playing the team in a park that isn't good for us.

Thanks Gibby.

Price better be yanked today quickly if he has any problems.



He didn't say that.

To be honest, I don't think playing our main guys in that **** show of a day in Baltimore would have been a smart idea. Also, playing them in the second half of double header wouldn't have been smart either. They probably would have lost that game anyway, their heads wouldn't be on the game.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

In case there's any body interested in quantifying this asinine argument, the park factors are as follows (where 1.0 is considered neutral):

Rogers Center: HR (1.005) 15th, 2B (1.076) 7th, 3B (.958) 13th, runs (.906) 24th

Kauffman: HR (.793) 25th, 2B (1.221) 4th, 3B (1.455) 5th, runz (1.019) 11th

Those are some material differences.

 

[ryno23]

You know the Jays also hit more doubles than the Royals, right?

Trying to adjust is a bad idea. They hit a lot of HR, but the idea that they're up there specifically looking to hit HR just isn't true. They go up trying to make hard contact, and that's the best way to get good results. Because their core offensive players are really strong, swing extremely hard, and have good eyes at the plate, they hit a lot of HR.

See I don't see that at all. Watch how many violent swings they have hoping to hit one 900 feet. Sure when they hit boy it is majestic but how many times have we seen them caught looking with 2 strikes??? Looking for a pitch....protect the plate and foul it off eventually the pitcher will make a mistake.

You can't tell me when Donaldson, Jose and EE are in the box they are not looking to go yard...of course they are.

 

[Loosie]

Right, Jays had a better hitting team. What you want to look at is the ratio of runs scored from home runs vs total runs scored for each respective team to find which team benefits more from a HR suppressing park.

You realize if you remove 'runs scored off of HRs' then Game 5 is still won 6-0 by the Jays.

Both teams have scored the same amount of runs of the HR this series. They are able to get runs without HRs.

It would be nice to see a stat of RBI's off of HRs and those not.

But the narrative that they Jays can only score off of HRs is asinine.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Back to this again, are we?

Yep.

To be honest, I don't think playing our main guys in that **** show of a day in Baltimore would have been a smart idea.

Maybe. or They would have be so relaxed that would have gone deep 5 times.

It is all up to the hitters tonight.
I'd say we have to score 6 to win tonight.

I can't see Price being all that effective tonight.
(Would love to be wrong).
I'm pulling him ASAP if he's over or equal to 3 run in the third.

Since there is no tomorrow, I'm putting Stroman in. Especially if the Jays don't look like they are scoring runs.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The funniest portion (pillar, really) of the argument is that Rogers Centre is a homerun haven when in reality it (along with Dodgers stadium) are the most neutral power parks in the league.

 

[theaub]

To be honest, I don't think playing our main guys in that **** show of a day in Baltimore would have been a smart idea. Also, playing them in the second half of double header wouldn't have been smart either. They probably would have lost that game anyway, their heads wouldn't be on the game.

Pretty much

The Jays blew the Saturday game in Tampa and as such the Sunday game meant nothing. The Saturday one was the one they had to win (and if they had done that and then just tanked the last game with Buehrle it would be a fair argument).

 

[Kurtz]

But the narrative that they Jays can only score off of HRs is asinine.

I don't think anyone, in the media or otherwise, has ever put forth a narrative that the Jays can only score via home runs. They only people who put forth that narrative have done so in an attempt to build a straw-man argument to refute.

I believe the idea is the Jays score a considerably larger proportion of their runs from HR than their current opponent.

 

[ryno23]

In case there's any body interested in quantifying this asinine argument, the park factors are as follows (where 1.0 is considered neutral):

Rogers Center: HR (1.005) 15th, 2B (1.076) 7th, 3B (.958) 13th, runs (.906) 24th

Kauffman: HR (.793) 25th, 2B (1.221) 4th, 3B (1.455) 5th, runz (1.019) 11th

Those are some material differences.

but the failure in advance stats there is the pitching staffs are not the same so you have a different set in each park which skews the numbers.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

but the failure in advance stats there is the pitching staffs are not the same so you have a different set in each park which skews the numbers.

Those aren't advanced stats, Ryno.

 

[TootooTrain]

See I don't see that at all. Watch how many violent swings they have hoping to hit one 900 feet. Sure when they hit boy it is majestic but how many times have we seen them caught looking with 2 strikes??? Looking for a pitch....protect the plate and foul it off eventually the pitcher will make a mistake.

You can't tell me when Donaldson, Jose and EE are in the box they are not looking to go yard...of course they are.

I've mentioned it before. It's one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to specifically Jose. EE and JD's swings are easier to differentiate between a cut and trying to make solid contact due to their mechanics. Jose however swings hard at every pitch. His revitalization as a player came from changing his approach to a much more aggressive one. He generates incredible bat speed through the plate so he can wait longer to see pitches.

 

[guyzeur]

In case there's any body interested in quantifying this asinine argument, the park factors are as follows (where 1.0 is considered neutral):

Rogers Center: HR (1.005) 15th, 2B (1.076) 7th, 3B (.958) 13th, runs (.906) 24th

Kauffman: HR (.793) 25th, 2B (1.221) 4th, 3B (1.455) 5th, runz (1.019) 11th

Those are some material differences.

Are the Jays' stats included in the Stats at Roger Centre?

 

[calcal798]

In case there's any body interested in quantifying this asinine argument, the park factors are as follows (where 1.0 is considered neutral):

Rogers Center: HR (1.005) 15th, 2B (1.076) 7th, 3B (.958) 13th, runs (.906) 24th

Kauffman: HR (.793) 25th, 2B (1.221) 4th, 3B (1.455) 5th, runz (1.019) 11th

Those are some material differences.

But is above the posting threshold.......