Pre-Game Talk: Week to Get Back (To Where You Once Belong) [@VAN; @CGY; @EDM]

[tigervixxxen]

This is a little misleading IMO, he didn't say that but he is putting pressure on the core of the team to take a step in the right direction.

Which is the right mindset IMO.

In saying that, Roy needs to stop using guys like Comeau on the power play in the same light.

I heard it too, he said that Kizsla article was great (which it definitely wasn't). There's nothing wrong with asking them to step up and putting pressure on the core but it's the way he says it, the threats are very real. I wonder if they are setting this up because they expect to lose Barrie, sort of a "well, we said the core had to do something and they didn't so we are making a change". If they plan to do something more drastic than that then they've really, really lost the plot.

 

[lonelybadger]

varlamov or barrie is the only guys i could stomach.

varly only and only if they can find cheaper replacement allowing them to sign big UFA... everyone knows who i'm talking about.

barrie because he asks for the moon.

Radulov? Stamkos? Kris Russel?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Listen to the way he's talking. He keeps saying it's time for the core to step up, it's on them now. They have to make the playoffs. How much more clear does it need to be? They're ready to move someone if they don't make it.

Roy also is pretty manipulative when it comes to when and where he says what he says.

I'm not ruling it out, but they are not going to dump any top players. If they do make a trade it will be to strengthen another area of the team. So I'm not really that worried about it to be honest.

It could also just as easily be another way for Roy to raise the bar both privately and publicly when it comes to the pressure on the team. They'll need to get used to that regardless of if they actually make it or not this year.

Edit : I'm also pretty sure Roy wants to know who will rise to the occasion in this situation, and who will not. We as fans want to know that as well, even as difficult as it might be when rooting for individual players to see any one of them fail in that scenario.

 

[henchman21]

I could see EJ being able to be stomached if the right deal and replacement (namely Hamonic) came along. Varly is probably the easiest to recover from, and the one that would make the most sense.

 

[AvsRobin]

Listen to the way he's talking. He keeps saying it's time for the core to step up, it's on them now. They have to make the playoffs. How much more clear does it need to be? They're ready to move someone if they don't make it.

Duchene, MacKinnon and Landeskog is leading our team in points and Barrie is tied with Soderberg for 45.

The core is driving this team, and they are keeping us from rock bottom.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Radulov? Stamkos? Kris Russel?

nailed it with the first one.

 

[henchman21]

Duchene, MacKinnon and Landeskog is leading our team in points and Barrie is tied with Soderberg for 45.

The core is driving this team, and they are keeping us from rock bottom.

Varly and EJ are probably the only two core players that are disappointing. Those 4, I really don't have much of an issue with. MacK could be doing more, but he is 20, he deserves a bit more time.

 

[AvsRobin]

Varly and EJ are probably the only two core players that are the most disappointing. Those 4, I really don't have much of an issue with. MacK could be doing more, but he is 20, he deserves a bit more time.

EJ has never been as good as people pretend on this board. But not everyone can have a great year every year. He has had a down year. Varly isn't having his best year either. But 13/14 was his career year, that can't be expected of him, and it's not his fault that this team requires elite goaltending to stay competitive.

 

[tigervixxxen]

wowsers, what's happened to you?



i agree.

i think monahan is couture 2.0. maybe little better by the time it's all said and done. like couture and also like stamkos, he doesn't have the puck much on his stick for a center. which is ok when gaudreau is on your line but he has to develop in that area to become a dominant player because he's not going to score goals as well as stamkos.


good player but i take mack over him fairly easily. now this one other center at that draft..

That's not how I really feel about MacK, I'm not entirely being serious. BUT if we are going to crazy town and blowing it up and the way people are starting to feel about his game, I don't think he should be exempt from the conversation.

Yikes, I was hoping it was just Dater being Dater. This blows. What's wrong with being patient? Shouldn't judge the core until they have the depth and defense to compete with.

Yeah, that's what they should do but clearly that's not how they see things. I don't know how they can have this expectation on an incomplete average team. Pressure is one thing and they very well could come out of this ahead but it just feels so unrealistic. It's like beating a mule and expecting a racehorse to show up. Maybe these guys just don't get what building a team looks like, they were so accustomed to competing and winning. I don't know, I don't get it myself

 

[CobraAcesS]

Varly and EJ are probably the only two core players that are disappointing. Those 4, I really don't have much of an issue with. MacK could be doing more, but he is 20, he deserves a bit more time.

This is true, although I'm not as frustrated with EJ as some people are.

I hate evaluating Barrie without him having a defensively responsible partner. We all know how bad or good one defender can make his partner look at times. If I'm being honest though, Barrie has been more frustrating overall this season than EJ for me.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Barrie is the easiest to get rid of. I don't think they want any part of paying him what Newport is going to ask for. Varly could be replaced by picks but it's not like he's exactly a big game goalie himself. He's essentially never played in the playoffs.

 

[CobraAcesS]

That's not how I really feel about MacK, I'm not entirely being serious. BUT if we are going to crazy town and blowing it up and the way people are starting to feel about his game, I don't think he should be exempt from the conversation.



Yeah, that's what they should do but clearly that's not how they see things. I don't know how they can have this expectation on an incomplete average team. Pressure is one thing and they very well could come out of this ahead but it just feels so unrealistic. It's like beating a mule and expecting a racehorse to show up. Maybe these guys just don't get what building a team looks like, they were so accustomed to competing and winning. I don't know, I don't get it myself

I think it's just been a while since we've seen MacK play the way hes capable of for 60 minutes. He can be much more dynamic than hes shown in 2016.

Agreed though, if you're going to crazy town you can't leave anyone at home.

 

[lonelybadger]

I think the issue Roy has with the core is he feels certain players are not performaning to his liking in important situations. So many times the team is fighting for a win and an important player can't bury the puck on a great chance, commit a brutal turnover, take a bad penalty, or crosscheck a guy in the head.

I think Roy and Sakic know that Holden, and beauch should be replaced soon by bigras/zadorov but at the end of the day if you try and run an offensive heavy style and your leading scoring is ranked 24th after playing a few more games than most of the guys in front of you it's a problem.

Players picked as high as mack, duchene, landeskog need to be better and being young is not an excuse for duchene anymore and it's getting old for landeskog too. MacKinnon is still pretty young despite this being his 3rd season and he has shown dominance in the playoff series with the wild but has taken a step back most of this year. He's started to play better of late but needs to take the next step if he wants to live up to the hype. Barkov has only 4 less points in 16 games than mack. Sure he's playing with jage and huberdreau but mack spent a lot of time with duchene, and now boedker.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think the issue Roy has with the core is he feels certain players are not performaning to his liking in important situations. So many times the team is fighting for a win and an important player can't bury the puck on a great chance, commit a brutal turnover, take a bad penalty, or crosscheck a guy in the head.

I think Roy and Sakic know that Holden, and beauch should be replaced soon by bigras/zadorov but at the end of the day if you try and run an offensive heavy style and your leading scoring is ranked 24th after playing a few more games than most of the guys in front of you it's a problem.

Players picked as high as mack, duchene, landeskog need to be better and being young is not an excuse for duchene anymore and it's getting old for landeskog too. MacKinnon is still pretty young despite this being his 3rd season and he has shown dominance in the playoff series with the wild but has taken a step back most of this year. He's started to play better of late but needs to take the next step if he wants to live up to the hype. Barkov has only 4 less points in 16 games than mack. Sure he's playing with jage and huberdreau but mack spent a lot of time with duchene, and now boedker.

Landeskog is what he is regardless of draft status, and he was never drafted because of his offensive prowess. It was because of the amount of offense he can give you while also doing the things he does well on 200 feet of ice.

I doubt they are dumb enough to trade Landeskog because hes not scoring 70 points per/82.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I missed the first half, did anything interesting come up then?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I think if Matt Duchene, Gabe Landeskog, Nathan Mackinnon and Erik Johnson are all playing at their absolute best that EJ is the best player of them all.

 

[InjuredChoker]

so hypothetically, they could finish with 92 points. but miss the playoffs. thus core doesn't cut it. let's trade at least one of them.

or they could finish with, say, 88 points. and make the playoffs. core is good enough, let's keep them!!!

 

[Iceberg]

I really don't care if they trade one of the core players in the offseason, i actually want it to happen.

But regardless of what will happen or not, Roy is doing the absolute right thing by putting pressure on them. It's about time that they get those guys out of their comfort zone.

They have to understand that "maybe next year" is not acceptable anymore.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

I don't think that it's as black and white as "if they don't make it in it's all the cores fault". But hey it's easier to complain when you assume that Roykic is excited to get rid of players.

 

[AslanRH]

Everyone can relax. Holden is a core player and will be moved.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Yikes, I was hoping it was just Dater being Dater. This blows. What's wrong with being patient? Shouldn't judge the core until they have the depth and defense to compete with.

The problem isn't depth and defense. The problem is the mental make up of the team. The inconsistent play. The inconsistent effort. The blown leads. This team is mentally fragile.

Moving a top player just for the sake of moving him or shake things up rarely ends well. You never get the return you deserve.

When a team is struggling you don't make a change just for the sake of it. You make a change because the current players are not getting the job done.

Duchene, MacKinnon and Landeskog is leading our team in points and Barrie is tied with Soderberg for 45.

The core is driving this team, and they are keeping us from rock bottom.

They might be leading the team in points, but they are not leading the team to wins. Seriously, the mental aspect of sports is just as important as talent. If we miss the playoffs it will be because we are mentally weak. This team folds under pressure constantly. Everything was great that first year when there was no pressure to win and getting out to a great start certainly helped. But as soon as the regular season was over and they actually felt some pressure.....

And as you said, the core is driving the team.

 

[Iceberg]

Everyone can relax. Holden is a core player and will be moved.

Yes, probably for a more experienced and expensive Holden.

 

[henchman21]

EJ has never been as good as people pretend on this board. But not everyone can have a great year every year. He has had a down year. Varly isn't having his best year either. But 13/14 was his career year, that can't be expected of him, and it's not his fault that this team requires elite goaltending to stay competitive.

The Avs don't require elite goaltending, but they do require what they are paying Varly to be. They are paying him to play like a top 10 level goalie, and the past two seasons, especially this season, he has not played up to that level or even that close to it. Of goalies that have played 20 or more games, Varly is tied for 27th in sv percentage. If the Avs are going to get that level of goaltending, they'd be much better off paying half (or less) the salary to get it. $5.9 is too much for what Varly has provided.

EJ is a low end #1 when he is playing well. Decent #2 when he isn't. On the Avs he has to be the #1 and him not being able to play consistently well this year is disappointing. It really isn't his fault, but he is expected to play like a #1 here and it just hasn't happened this year.

so hypothetically, they could finish with 92 points. but miss the playoffs. thus core doesn't cut it. let's trade at least one of them.

or they could finish with, say, 88 points. and make the playoffs. core is good enough, let's keep them!!!

I don't think it is quite that simple. If the Avs finish 9-3 and just get beat out, it probably shows the core stepped up when it mattered, they were just beat. Same if both Minny and the Avs stumble, it can show the core didn't step up and the Avs were barely better than the Wild down the stretch. I think performance matters here.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I heard it too, he said that Kizsla article was great (which it definitely wasn't). There's nothing wrong with asking them to step up and putting pressure on the core but it's the way he says it, the threats are very real. I wonder if they are setting this up because they expect to lose Barrie, sort of a "well, we said the core had to do something and they didn't so we are making a change". If they plan to do something more drastic than that then they've really, really lost the plot.

What I don't understand is how this sentiment is any less conspiracy theory than some of the other stuff we discuss on here as possibilities.

No one is denying the possibility, or the danger depending on how you look at it.

I just don't like "Hes basically saying" and other comments pretending anything assumed is remotely definitive just because everyone's hair is on fire and in panic mode.

Personally there is nothing wrong with Roy evaluating his core and seeing who steps up to the pressure and who does not. However there is still a value factor and a business based market when it comes to these players. I doubt they are ok being on the losing end of overall value in a trade just because they don't make the playoffs.

If you're not worried about that, then why worry? Whatever we lose will just be replaced with another asset or assets in an attempt to take the team in the right direction.

Either way, so what? It's not like they're going to trade MacKinnon for 3 months of negotiating time with Stamkos or something. (Jumps up and down on a piece of wood)

I'll worry when we make a trade and I hate the return, as of now Roy says too many words with an agenda, or that end up pretty shallow later in actual circumstance for me to get that worried about it.

 

[InjuredChoker]

EJ is a low end #1 when he is playing well. Decent #2 when he isn't. On the Avs he has to be the #1 and him not being able to play consistently well this year is disappointing. It really isn't his fault, but he is expected to play like a #1 here and it just hasn't happened this year.

but still, i don't get trading him because we wouldn't get #1 back in a trade. might (likely) not even get as good player back considering his age, injury history and contract.

I don't think it is quite that simple. If the Avs finish 9-3 and just get beat out, it probably shows the core stepped up when it mattered, they were just beat. Same if both Minny and the Avs stumble, it can show the core didn't step up and the Avs were barely better than the Wild down the stretch. I think performance matters here.

they also might go 9-3 and the core didn't step up. but depth players got some garbage goals and they got great goaltending and won going full turtle enough games. or they might stumble but the core played great but rest of the team was crappy and other teams just had goalies standing on their heads.