Post-Game Talk: We Lawst

[stan the caddy]

Drury has been fine and more than good.

He needs to nail the next coaching hire. Quenneville. Where's the next Montgomery? we never hire a good coach

They needed to address defense and instead they added power play specialists to a team with a stacked power play.

 

[Machinehead]

Our roster is cup worthy imo. Our coaching is the handicap right now.

We can't breakout/transition. That's sort of a problem. The team looks to half-ass 'buying in'. There's been a disconnect. We find ways to gut out wins but there is so much untapped potential IMO

I don't think a better breakout is on the roster, unless Miller takes a couple of steps forward.

The inability to transition is personnel.

 

[duhmetreE]

They needed to address defense and instead they added power play specialists to a team with a stacked power play.

We got rid of Jacques Martin too. We were solid under Martin. Stick work and positioning was elite.

I'll take a Jacquest Martin type along with a Brunette... Then Gallant can put in his style. That's ultimately what I want...

Solid defensively and structurally.
Have the X's and O's to breakout and transition.
Able to counter and attack as a unit
Also able to play Gallant hockey when needed.

i know it's too much to ask...

 

[RangerBlues]

Its gonna take an extraordinary effort to get through Boston this season.
All us hockey nutters can see that.
Thats a serious machine.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't think a better breakout is on the roster, unless Miller takes a couple of steps forward.

The inability to transition is personnel.

It's not though. It's a systemic issue. Defenders literally have no where to go with the puck. Forwards fly the zone for a stretch pass/deflect it in. That's our gameplan... There's no puck support/outlet. We do not play like a 2023 NHL team

Fox will always find ways to move the puck but that cannot be your gameplan. Relying on uber elite talent to 'do something'. Skating up as a unit in transition has happened how many times?

Who knows anymore.. I'm just tired of watching boring dated hockey

 

[JimmyG89]

Being realistic (I know, how dare me), the field wins the Cup even at the best of times and I don't think this is a Cup winner. Said it from the beginning.

I do think, if healthy, they'll throw their hats in the ring. It's the journey, not the destination.

My frustration is more with the league. I don't know if I see a path to becoming a Cup winner with the cap constraints, barring unexpected development from an inordinate amount of young players (Tampa, NJ) or older players take absolute joke, cap-circumventing contracts (Boston). Or somebody just has an absolutely bonkers year like Kadri on the Avs followed by an absolutely bonkers playoffs by some mid ass dude (Nichushkin). And even then, they got to rest for three rounds in the minor league conference.

Basically, in a hard cap league where you can't *really* roster build and fill every hole, the forces that get you there are up to the universe.

I don't think it is necessarily because of the hard cap, but more of the agreement done for Return to Play in 2020.

I understand there are needs for all players, but them agreeing to get their checks in spite of a continuation of the cap rising was baffling. They took today's dollars instead of future dollars. Of course the unknown was there, but nobody in that group had foresight to understand what would happen.

The owners are culpable as well and instead of taking a loss for a small amount of time, they decided they needed to be "made whole" from the players. The majority of these owners are either billionaires or quite close. They ran it like a bank instead of a business and the players took a loan per se. If the players are smart, their dollar value sucks at the moment anyway due to inflation. This is the best time to pay it off, this summer and let the cap go to where it should.

If those two decisions were not made at that time, the league would be significantly better off like the NBA. It can be somewhat apples to oranges (average salaries, amount of players affected, etc.) but the owners and the players have hamstrung the GMs with that decision.

 

[TominNC]

It’s really not, it wasn’t Krejci coming back from the dead that turned that team around… it was getting rid of Cassidy.

It was his latest GG rant I was referring to

 

[Machinehead]

It's not though. It's a systemic issue. Defenders literally have no where to go with the puck. Forwards fly the zone for a stretch pass/deflect it in. That's our gameplan...

Fox will always find ways to move the puck but that cannot be your gameplan. Relying on uber elite talent to 'do something'. Skating up as a unit in transition has happened how many times?

Who knows anymore.. I'm just tired of watching boring dated hockey

I don't agree about the forwards at this point.

Certainly that was true under Quinn and part of last year.

Now, our forwards don't stretch at all anymore unless Fox is on the ice. They hang back and hold hands because we have to.

That's why we're so boring and our skill players have to force things all the time, and why the middle is always clogged up.

They have at least four guys back before we complete a transition.

We improved our analytics, almost entirely on the "against" side by orders of magnitude this year, at the cost of any offensive threat at 5v5 whatsoever.

Whether you agree with Gallant or not, it's he and his staff who made that change, and tbh I can't fault them. In the playoffs, I'd rather be cagey than try to win the Cup at 26th in shots against.

A team with good enough personnel can play defense without shutting down their own offense. The D corps isn't good enough at moving the puck and our forwards need to babysit them too much.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think it is necessarily because of the hard cap, but more of the agreement done for Return to Play in 2020.

I understand there are needs for all players, but them agreeing to get their checks in spite of a continuation of the cap rising was baffling. They took today's dollars instead of future dollars. Of course the unknown was there, but nobody in that group had foresight to understand what would happen.

The owners are culpable as well and instead of taking a loss for a small amount of time, they decided they needed to be "made whole" from the players. The majority of these owners are either billionaires or quite close. They ran it like a bank instead of a business and the players took a loan per se. If the players are smart, their dollar value sucks at the moment anyway due to inflation. This is the best time to pay it off, this summer and let the cap go to where it should.

If those two decisions were not made at that time, the league would be significantly better off like the NBA. It can be somewhat apples to oranges (average salaries, amount of players affected, etc.) but the owners and the players have hamstrung the GMs with that decision.

The players need it. I know we think they don't but most guys in the union are going to play four and a half years.

The owners don't need it.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Drury has been fine and more than good.

He needs to nail the next coaching hire. Quenneville. Where's the next Montgomery? we never hire a good coach

Drury's legacy beyond this season (unless they win the Cup which is highly unlikely) is going to come down to whether or not he nails his first round picks and finds diamonds in the rough/changes the development culture here.

Othmann was a risky pick met with no fanfare at the time, but he may turn into a very good player. The draft is loaded this year. Need to find players and not Jessimans or even Brian Boyles.

For all the crap everyone gave Neil Smith, and he inherited a lot of those NCAA players from Patrick (and Amonte from Esposito), in his early years he drafted Weight, Zubov, Kovalev, Nemchinov, and even Sundstrom was a solid pick,

Everyone loved Gorton as AGM, but his reign as GM was a mess and everyone looks back at it pretty sour (all the headcase prospects who wanted out, the buyouts, and paying Quinn a crazy sum of money when he didn't want to coach here).

 

[JimmyG89]

The players need it. I know we think they don't but most guys in the union are going to play four and a half years.

The owners don't need it.

Right but the top players that have been paid or are getting paid now don't as much. If the union was strong, those top guys would bear the brunt of it or try and renegotiate.

You won't find a team with no holes until that changes.

 

[Machinehead]

Right but the top players that have been paid or are getting paid now don't as much. If the union was strong, those top guys would bear the brunt of it or try and renegotiate.

You won't find a team with no holes until that changes.

I just don't understand why the guys who take on all the "risk" we hear about -that's why the owners get 50%, all the risk of inheriting a successful business- can't just have 8 yachts instead of 9 because an emergency happened.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Panarin has been great for like 5-7 games but was terrible today. I’ll give him a pass. The team is probably exhausted.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't agree about the forwards at this point.

Certainly that was true under Quinn and part of last year.

Now, our forwards don't stretch at all anymore unless Fox is on the ice. They hang back and hold hands because we have to.

That's why we're so boring and our skill players have to force things all the time, and why the middle is always clogged up.

They have at least four guys back before we complete a transition.

We improved our analytics, almost entirely on the "against" side by orders of magnitude this year, at the cost of any offensive threat at 5v5 whatsoever.

Whether you agree with Gallant or not, it's he and his staff who made that change, and tbh I can't fault them. In the playoffs, I'd rather be cagey than try to win the Cup at 26th in shots against.

A team with good enough personnel can play defense without shutting down their own offense. The D corps isn't good enough at moving the puck and our forwards need to babysit them too much.

I just dont see that. Every time I make a point to look for 'options' for the puck carrier, whether it be in initiating a breakout or looking to make something happen in the ozone, there's limited to nothing available. We are easy to defend, in nearly all aspects. There's no cohesive/tactical purpose, in getting open while supporting the puck. This is why I completely repeat to ad nauseum the X's and O's aspect. We are 'ad libbng' hockey. We have a general structure/gameplan but it's veeeeery loooooose. We need a tactician to refine this team further. If that means another assistant coach, I do not care. I do not care who the coach is, I just want corrections/adjustments to build on what we have.

Too many defensive breakdowns. Obviously there's major issue in understanding/communication. Players don't know their roles. It happens way too often. When it works, we look solid. Blocking shots, getting sticks in lanes but when there's breakdowns, we give up A++++ chances. Great teams cant have as many breakdowns as we have.

 

[Machinehead]

I just dont see that. Every time I make a point to look for 'options' for the puck carrier, whether it be in initiating a breakout or looking to make something happen in the ozone, there's limited to nothing available. We are easy to defend, in nearly all aspects. There's no cohesive purpose, in getting open while supporting the puck. This is why I completely repeat to ad nauseum the X's and O's aspect. We are 'ad libbng' hockey. We have a general structure/gameplan but it's veeeeery loooooose. We need a tactician to refine this team further. If that means another assistant coach, I do not care. I do not care who the coach is, I just want corrections/adjustments.

Too many defensive breakdowns. Obviously there's major issue in understanding/communication. Players don't know their roles. It happens way too often. When it works, we look solid. Blocking shots, getting sticks in lanes but when there's breakdowns, we give up A++++ chances. Great teams cant have as many breakdowns as we have.

If you're having trouble finding available forwards, look right next to the defensemen. That's where they have to be to facilitate a breakout from Miller, Schneider, and God help us Harpur.

Trocheck was a third defenseman the entire game today and we expect his wingers to just carve through four guys or find an open man who's 150 feet away.

It's impossible to get open when it takes you three minutes to get down the ice and the other team gets to set up their D.

Absolutely we have breakdowns and give up A++++ chances. 19 teams give up more chances. Again, I don't think you're grasping how much offense has skyrocketed. As recently as 18-19, averaging 3 goals per game was "contenders only," placing you 12th in the NHL. Now it places you 22nd and only tanking teams are below it.

It's really an indictment on our offensive play that they're this boring in 80's hockey but it start with the breakouts.

We've looked the same under multiple coaches now and we have an all-star game forward group. We're running out of options before we arrive at "gee, maybe the defense doesn't move the puck well enough."

BTW on the powerplay, I absolutely agree with you. Unit one just stands there and watches the guy with the puck. That's a whole other story.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

19 Games to figure it out

The last 19 games are should be used as tune up for the playoffs. If you're still figuring stuff out after 60+ games (even with TDL additions), you have a problem.

 

[CLW]

It's not though. It's a systemic issue. Defenders literally have no where to go with the puck. Forwards fly the zone for a stretch pass/deflect it in. That's our gameplan... There's no puck support/outlet. We do not play like a 2023 NHL team

Fox will always find ways to move the puck but that cannot be your gameplan. Relying on uber elite talent to 'do something'. Skating up as a unit in transition has happened how many times?

Who knows anymore.. I'm just tired of watching boring dated hockey

We got through the neutral zone about one time as a unit and that was towards the end when Boston got a bit sloppy. For once Kakko (from Chytil) managed to get up the ice and cross our blue line fast with the puck on his stick (instead of a hopeless puck chuck in the general direction of a Ranger covered by two Bruins). Kakko had a rough game but here he is playing like he has to, with his feet moving (weirdly he skates better with the puck on his stick than when he is trying to "power" skate). On this goal we actually have puck support and skate as a unit. The kids used to move like this before they got "coached". Also it's funny/infuriating that Chytil and Kakko bump into each other in the slot. Boston are SO MUCH BETTER ORGANIZED it's not even funny.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

If they go to the net and get greasy goals, it's possible.

Unfortunately, this is not the Ranger way. As someone commented in the GDT, Rangers skate away from the front of the net rather than to it.

 

[duhmetreE]

If you're having trouble finding available forwards, look right next to the defensemen. That's where they have to be to facilitate a breakout from Miller, Schneider, and God help us Harpur.

Trocheck was a third defenseman the entire game today and we expect his wingers to just carve through four guys or find an open man who's 150 feet away.

It's impossible to get open when it takes you three minutes to get down the ice and the other team gets to set up their D.

Absolutely we have breakdowns and give up A++++ chances. 19 teams give up more chances. Again, I don't think you're grasping how much offense has skyrocketed. As recently as 18-19, averaging 3 goals per game was "contenders only," placing you 12th in the NHL. Now it places you 22nd and only tanking teams are below it.

It's really an indictment on our offensive play that they're this boring in 80's hockey but it start with the breakouts.

We've looked the same under multiple coaches now and we have an all-star game forward group. We're running out of options before we arrive at "gee, maybe the defense doesn't move the puck well enough."

It's the start of a breakout. That's fine. Support the defender but then the defense needs to attack as well. Our defensemen need to be way more active in transition. Not only being the '4th guy in' trailing but to be involved in the rush after they make the first pass to a forward. If they find the outlet to Trocheck, the defense needs to activate and join the transition, attack.. Too much standing still in nearly all aspects.... a theme of the team.

but your agreeing with me. It's a systemic issue. Our tactics/X's and O's are not 2023 NHL worthy. Our possession #'s have increased. It is a testament to Gallant's gameplan in a sense. It's to 'own the boards'. I've mentioned it before, but if all 5 skaters are on the boards in the Ozone, we will maintain possession and we will get shots ( yay we win analytics). When we play bad teams there will be breakdowns and we can capitalize. Against good teams, we just get a lot of low% shots and forced royal road passes that aren't there (generalizing here). It's the catastrophic fault in our 'gameplan' IMO. I'd compare it loosely to NYY baseball approach. Strikeout 300k's but hit HRs. It works against bad pitching in the regular season but gets shutdown in the postseason against the best pitching staffs... this is also just our 'ozone gameplan'... this doesn't include the issue of our transition.

We need to adjust further. The only way to do that is to add more X's and O's and the defense has to be way more active. We need to attack as a unit. There is nothing cohesive

 

[CLW]

If you're having trouble finding available forwards, look right next to the defensemen. That's where they have to be to facilitate a breakout from Miller, Schneider, and God help us Harpur.

Trocheck was a third defenseman the entire game today and we expect his wingers to just carve through four guys or find an open man who's 150 feet away.

It's impossible to get open when it takes you three minutes to get down the ice and the other team gets to set up their D.

Absolutely we have breakdowns and give up A++++ chances. 19 teams give up more chances. Again, I don't think you're grasping how much offense has skyrocketed. As recently as 18-19, averaging 3 goals per game was "contenders only," placing you 12th in the NHL. Now it places you 22nd and only tanking teams are below it.

It's really an indictment on our offensive play that they're this boring in 80's hockey but it start with the breakouts.

We've looked the same under multiple coaches now and we have an all-star game forward group. We're running out of options before we arrive at "gee, maybe the defense doesn't move the puck well enough."

BTW on the powerplay, I absolutely agree with you. Unit one just stands there and watches the guy with the puck. That's a whole other story.

We had a shit breakout system under Quinn too. My #1 expectation (hope) with the new coach Gallant was that he would fix the transition issue (along with not screwing the kids over). That hope was dashed two games into his tenure after his first pre-season when it became obvious he had no clue about transition or rather, doesn't care much. Coaches or management I don't care where the real issue is, but this has to be fixed.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

This team needs to attend Defense 101 classes

This team needs to attend Hockey Fundamentals 101.

 

[Kovalev27]

Shesterkin sucks. That’s the biggest issue. Has been all season

 

[duhmetreE]

We got through the neutral zone about one time as a unit and that was towards the end when Boston got a bit sloppy. For once Kakko (from Chytil) managed to get up the ice and cross our blue line fast with the puck on his stick (instead of a hopeless puck chuck in the general direction of a Ranger covered by two Bruins). Kakko had a rough game but here he is playing like he has to, with his feet moving (weirdly he skates better with the puck on his stick than when he is trying to "power" skate). On this goal we actually have puck support and skate as a unit. The kids used to move like this before they got "coached". Also it's funny/infuriating that Chytil and Kakko bump into each other in the slot. Boston are SO MUCH BETTER ORGANIZED it's not even funny.

tbf Boston is thinking about Dinner plans already. Even then, I'd like to see 4 skaters in the picture.

 

[duhmetreE]

Shesterkin sucks. That’s the biggest issue. Has been all season

The uncomforatble truth.

I can't unsee what Vally talked about now. Get get so wide and just drops on everything. He looks small in net. He's not crisp with his movements. He's not exploding out to challenge shots. He looks sloppy and less dynamic.

This is the Bergeron goal. IMO Last year he would have kicked out to the top of the crease, cut down the angle and make the save. He's playing like Ulmark... he's not Ulmark.

 

[Machinehead]

It's the start of a breakout. That's fine. Support the defender but then the defense needs to attack as well. Our defensemen need to be way more active in transition. Not only being the '4th guy in' trailing but to be involved in the rush after they make the first pass to a forward. If they find the outlet to Trocheck, the defense needs to activate and join the transition, attack.. Too much standing still in nearly all aspects.... a theme of the team.

but your agreeing with me. It's a systemic issue. Our tactics/X's and O's are not 2023 NHL worthy. Our possession #'s have increased. It is a testament to Gallant's gameplan in a sense. It's to 'own the boards'. I've mentioned it before, but if all 5 skaters are on the boards in the Ozone, we will maintain possession and we will get shots ( yay we win analytics). When we play bad teams there will be breakdowns and we can capitalize. Against good teams, we just get a lot of low% shots and forced royal road passes that aren't there (generalizing here). It's the catastrophic fault in our 'gameplan' IMO. I'd compare it loosely to NYY baseball approach. Strikeout 300k's but hit HRs. It works against bad pitching in the regular season but gets shutdown in the postseason against the best pitching staffs... this is also just our 'ozone gameplan'... this doesn't include the issue of our transition.

We need to adjust further. The only way to do that is to add more X's and O's and the defense has to be way more active. We need to attack as a unit. There is nothing cohesive

I don't think it's X's and O's, though. Most of the defense isn't skilled enough to be active in the offense. We have Fox and five board-chippers.

Hard to be cohesive with a forward corps built around skill and defense corps built around being tall and staying at home.

Every flaw is Gallant's dumb idea because nobody wants to admit there's flaws. Meanwhile, you can't find an available coach who wins games at a better rate than Gallant. You can't find any coach that's going to get this team transitioning fast without turning them back into into a 38 shots against per game team and even then, I don't think the personnel is there.

I think Gallant's line combos suck, that's a legitimate criticism, but at the end of the day, coaches have to coach the team they have. You want them to move quickly as a unit with a team that doesn't have the skill at an entire position to do that.

On teams like Boston and Colorado, every pair has a guy who's best asset is moving the puck. We have two of those guys since 1988.