we are so SOFT. We will never win like this

[Evilhomer]

I think a tipping point has been reached and no one can gloss this over anymore.

Win a couple of games in a row (against very beatable Buffalo and Tampa teams), and this "outrage" will fade into the background again until the next loss. It's as predictable as the sunrise. If anyone thinks the Penguins, the Avalanche or the Golden Knights were "tough" when they won their Cups, they are fooling themselves. Those teams were no more or less tough than the Leafs. The difference with all of those teams is that they were able to roll four effective forward lines and at least two dependable defense pairs (three in Vegas' case). The Leafs don't need to be tougher. They need the third and fourth lines to be better. That can be addressed during the season with a couple of key changes, most notably by way of the acquisition of a legitimate third line center. Once that happens, those bottom two lines can start to look more coherent than they do now, because players can be put into their proper roles.

 

[Racer88]

Win a couple of games in a row (against very beatable Buffalo and Tampa teams), and this "outrage" will fade into the background again until the next loss. It's as predictable as the sunrise. If anyone thinks the Penguins, the Avalanche or the Golden Knights were "tough" when they won their Cups, they are fooling themselves. Those teams were no more or less tough than the Leafs. The difference with all of those teams is that they were able to roll four effective forward lines and at least two dependable defense pairs (three in Vegas' case). The Leafs don't need to be tougher. They need the third and fourth lines to be better. That can be addressed during the season with a couple of key changes, most notably by way of the acquisition of a legitimate third line center. Once that happens, those bottom two lines can start to look more coherent than they do now, because players can be put into their proper roles.

How do you pay for a quality 3rd line centre and improvement for the D when the 4 clowns are sucking up all the money. It simply can’t happen

 

[PromisedLand]

look at my post history- Ive been saying this for years. We have no quality under 30 tough players on defense outside of Mccabe who is not very good. or forward. No opposing players are scared to park in front of our net. No opposing d is afraid to be hit by any one of our forwards. we will never win anything with this group.

yup opposition forwards have a field day in our end; and opposition d-men take full liberties against our forwards knowing full well there won't be any payback

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

shanahan and mlse are the problem.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Why are people so convinced this is a Keefe problem and not just the simple fact we hitched our wagon to a core of players that are incapable of ever playing the game of hockey mad or angry. It's not like we were a mean and tough team under an old school coach in Babcock and that has been taken away under Keefe.....Our core players don't lead anyone into a fight and that is purely on them at this point. They aren't 20 anymore.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Why are people so convinced this is a Keefe problem and not just the simple fact we hitched our wagon to a core of players that are incapable of ever playing the game of hockey mad or angry. It's not like we were a mean and tough team under an old school coach in Babcock and that has been taken away under Keefe.....Our core players don't lead anyone into a fight and that is purely on them at this point. They aren't 20 anymore.

Its true and you're probably right, but it's a lot easier to replace a coach. If it's the players we're going to have to wait another decade..

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Its true and you're probably right, but it's a lot easier to replace a coach. If it's the players we're going to have to wait another decade..

Yeah I mean I don't doubt Keefe is going to fall on the sword for the critical faults this group of players has. I just have zero faith a new coach will actually fix anything. I don't even really agree that Keefe is a "soft" coach either having watched the Prime series. It just isn't in our best players.

 

[Dekes For Days]

One isolated incident out of hundreds of examples of the exact opposite throughout the course of hockey history lol.

That's literally what you did. Picked an isolated clip of an outlier response out of an ocean of thousands and thousands of the way more common no response, and acted like that's what other teams do. If you watch other teams, what I posted is what usually happens. Nothing. It just doesn't get spread around twitter the same.

I typically defer to the experts on these matters:

"Experts".

 

[Hellcat]

Win a couple of games in a row (against very beatable Buffalo and Tampa teams), and this "outrage" will fade into the background again until the next loss. It's as predictable as the sunrise. If anyone thinks the Penguins, the Avalanche or the Golden Knights were "tough" when they won their Cups, they are fooling themselves. Those teams were no more or less tough than the Leafs. The difference with all of those teams is that they were able to roll four effective forward lines and at least two dependable defense pairs (three in Vegas' case). The Leafs don't need to be tougher. They need the third and fourth lines to be better. That can be addressed during the season with a couple of key changes, most notably by way of the acquisition of a legitimate third line center. Once that happens, those bottom two lines can start to look more coherent than they do now, because players can be put into their proper roles.

If you think you dont have to be mentally tough to win the Cup you are fooling yourself. If you think you dont have to be tough with withstand the pain from the injuries and still play at a high level. If you think that you dont need to be mentally tough when one of your key position players is out for the series and still over com your doubts you are fooling yourself. If you think the Leafs team is physically or mentally tough you are fooling yourself. So was Pitts, Colorado LV tough, hell yes they were tough as nails.

If the Leafs want to win the cup, the road goes through Boston, Boston knows we are soft do you think for a second they are not going beat the F out of the Leafs? Buffalo and Tampa always gives us good games, those are no layups.

covid was/is the biggest scam in history dumbass.

You are a drooling idiot if you believe that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The difference is only one person on TB saw the hit and he probably only caught it out of the corner of his vision and he got right into Bunting's face. The other plays referenced above and the one last night, all 9 other players saw what happened right in front of them.

How do you know only one Tampa player saw the Cernak iincident? How do you know everybody saw what happened to Liljegren? If anything, it would be harder to see the Liljegren incident. At first glance, it just looks like he caught an edge and went down. Marchand sneakily sticking his stick in there and lifting his foot would be really hard to see mid-game unless you were directly next to it (like the ref). Our players are constantly attacked by our fans for not engaging on plays that nobody saw.

And what about after they all found out what happened? Isn't the idea supposed to be that they spend the rest of the game taking out our players? Or does that only apply for us? And are we really going to say that the Tampa player lightly brushing against Bunting as he skates by is a response? Heck, Matthews literally fought last playoffs and people still say it doesn't count because it wasn't vicious enough.

What about this one where nobody did anything?

Everybody missed that too I guess?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Haha....you know Mitchy cannot play tough hockey and should not be coached to play like that.

Not sure what you think "tough hockey" means, but Marner can thrive in any environment.
The only thing he's being coached to be is one of the best, most well-rounded players in the league, and that's a great thing.

Stop with your bs stats.

Again, we're looking at your microstat. The microstat that you personally brought up, without realizing what it actually meant.
You just don't like that the cause of the microstat was proven to not be what you claimed.

 

[Racer88]

Why are people so convinced this is a Keefe problem and not just the simple fact we hitched our wagon to a core of players that are incapable of ever playing the game of hockey mad or angry. It's not like we were a mean and tough team under an old school coach in Babcock and that has been taken away under Keefe.....Our core players don't lead anyone into a fight and that is purely on them at this point. They aren't 20 anymore.

Agreed that they are a big part of the problem but upper management continues to hitch their wagon to this gutless core……..so what do we do about it because they will never change

 

[Racer88]

Not sure what you think "tough hockey" means, but Marner can thrive in any environment.
The only thing he's being coached to be is one of the best, most well-rounded players in the league, and that's a great thing.

Again, we're looking at your microstat. The microstat that you personally brought up, without realizing what it actually meant.
You just don't like that the cause of the microstat was proven to not be what you claimed.

Serious question. You vigorously defend the players, so if the players are all you think they are what do we need to do to have any sort of success in the playoffs

 

[BallardEra]

 

[Dekes For Days]

RoR left shortly after signing Sheldon to an extension.

Lol, what? O'Rielly signed July 1st. Keefe signed August 30th.
O'Rielly has also made it very clear why he left, repeatedly, and it has nothing to do with Keefe or the team. It was the market.

 

[Hellcat]

shanahan and mlse are the problem.

how a guy who was considered one of the toughest power forwards of his generation can build such a flaccid team is beyond understanding.

 

[Evilhomer]

If you think you dont have to be mentally tough to win the Cup you are fooling yourself. If you think you dont have to be tough with withstand the pain from the injuries and still play at a high level. If you think that you dont need to be mentally tough when one of your key position players is out for the series and still over com your doubts you are fooling yourself. If you think the Leafs team is physically or mentally tough you are fooling yourself. So was Pitts, Colorado LV tough, hell yes they were tough as nails.

If the Leafs want to win the cup, the road goes through Boston, Boston knows we are soft do you think for a second they are not going beat the F out of the Leafs? Buffalo and Tampa always gives us good games, those are no layups.



You are a drooling idiot if you believe that.

Mentally strong and "let's pound this guy for hurting our player" are two very different things. There is no one on the planet who would ever label Crosby, Malkin and Letang as the second coming of Clark Gillies (the single toughest and strongest player I have ever seen play, and that includes guys like Probert, O'Reilly, etc.). They were simply more talented and played to a better overall team system than their competitors. The Leafs have had plenty of tough players, and allegedly have the toughest one in the league now, but it doesn't make a difference. What they need is more talent at key positions and better coaching.

As for the Cup going through Boston, people are once again overstating what that team is, just as they did last season. Boston isn't winning anything this year. I don't even see the need to comment on Tampa. They will be lucky to make the playoffs at all. You can see first hand on Monday what Tampa looks like when they play on the road.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Not sure what you think "tough hockey" means, but Marner can thrive in any environment.
The only thing he's being coached to be is one of the best, most well-rounded players in the league, and that's a great thing.

Again, we're looking at your microstat. The microstat that you personally brought up, without realizing what it actually meant.
You just don't like that the cause of the microstat was proven to not be what you claimed.

Wrong, my stat is general and correct, not micro. I never said he is not a great player, I said he needs to play up ice, not behind. He is most successful making the d fear him in open ice, getting behind them, making them retreat, not trying to play in big boy land where he us smothered and manhandled. He is more like Willie than Hyman. He is being coached wrong. They are trying to find a player on left wing to keep up, not required, they need someone to cover up. He and AM can generate enough offense in open ice.
Playing keep away in the O zone he us good at but playing in open ice he is better at. Scoring off the rush he can be spectacular, where 220 lb dmen cannot catch him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wrong, my stat is general and correct, not micro.

Percentage change in average individual shot distance over a small sample is the very definition of a microstat.
The microstat hasn't been sourced anywhere, and the fact that his average individual expected goals per shot didn't change questions the validity of it (and suggests that outside of the widely publicized set play they ran against Vasilevsky, Marner was actually shooting from more dangerous areas than usual), and the microstat is very misleading in how it was presented, but even if we assume that it is "technically" correct, the conclusion you drew from the microstat and the claimed reasons for it were just flat out wrong, and that has been proven to you. In part by using your own suggestion to look at the shot charts.
And we shouldn't forget that, again, 3 of those 7 long range shots went in the net.
You're literally criticizing somebody for something that was successful and helped us win the series.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

That's literally what you did. Picked an isolated clip of an outlier response out of an ocean of thousands and thousands of the way more common no response, and acted like that's what other teams do. If you watch other teams, what I posted is what usually happens. Nothing. It just doesn't get spread around twitter the same.

"Experts".

I guess you consider yourself an expert since your opinion is more valuable than those who opine on hockey for a living?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I guess you consider yourself an expert since your opinion is more valuable than those who opine on hockey for a living?

I consider the facts the facts, instead of attempting appeals to fake authorities that make a living out of generating controversy and clicks, not having correct opinions.

 

[DuklaNation]

Team takes on the identity of its top players.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Lol, what? O'Rielly signed July 1st. Keefe signed August 30th.
O'Rielly has also made it very clear why he left, repeatedly, and it has nothing to do with Keefe or the team. It was the market.

O'Reilly left as soon as it was confirmed that Keefe was coming back. He said that he was frustrated at how they didn't do certain things in the playoffs against FLA. I do think had Keefe been let go....ROR might have stayed on. Hard to say for sure...but much more likely.

 

[GoonieFace]

O'Reilly left as soon as it was confirmed that Keefe was coming back. He said that he was frustrated at how they didn't do certain things in the playoffs against FLA. I do think had Keefe been let go....ROR might have stayed on. Hard to say for sure...but much more likely.

I think it was pretty obvious O’Reilly wanted nothing to do with this gang of turds. That, and Nashville is really nice.

 

[Dekes For Days]

O'Reilly left as soon as it was confirmed that Keefe was coming back. He said that he was frustrated at how they didn't do certain things in the playoffs against FLA. I do think had Keefe been let go....ROR might have stayed on. Hard to say for sure...but much more likely.

O'Rielly left on July 1st, when his contract ended. That's how free agency works. He's never said anything bad about Keefe, there were already hints about not re-signing in his end-of-season media availability way before anything about Keefe was known, and most importantly, O'Rielly has explicitly stated the reasons he chose Nashville over Toronto, and it was about the market, not the coach or the team. If you want to blame somebody, blame the rabid fanbase.