WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[Gary Nylund]

I love the tournament and really enjoy it.

I agree, I think it is the labelling "World Champion" that draws ire from most in North America. Results from that then go into the IIHFs formula to rank the hockey nations.

It's not a true World Championship tournament because many of the best players aren't there. With the spread of the internet and sharing of ideas amongst hockey fans on other sides of the world, I think hockey fans on both sides of the pond agree it's not best-on-best.

The atmosphere at the games are awesome. I enjoy seeing the European traditions (jumping, singing, whistling, etc.) and always enjoy hearing our anthem sung when we win. Even though not best-on-best, it deserves to be respected and enjoyed. This tournament means a lot to the smaller hockey nations.

I agree 100%. So many people are complaining about the World Cup being called the World Cup but they seem to be fine with the WHC being called the WHC. Where's the logic in that?

Me personally, I don't want to get too hung up on the names, I'm just happy that hockey is being played and people are watching and enjoying and arguing over semantics seems not all that meaningful. The World Cup isn't technically best-on-best but for my money, it's a helluva lot closer than the WHC. I have no problem with the WHC being called what it is, maybe I should but I really don't care. I hardly ever watch it myself just because there's other things to do and I probably spend too much time watching hockey (and other sports) as it is. It's a great tournament though and definitely deserves to be respected.

What was that Shakespeare said about a rose ...

 

[cutchemist42]

I honestly liked the WC idea more when original stories were saying it would be a midseason tourney.

The NHL also would probably be a better league with less games, something others agree with on other sections here.

 

[snipes]

I agree 100%. So many people are complaining about the World Cup being called the World Cup but they seem to be fine with the WHC being called the WHC. Where's the logic in that?

Me personally, I don't want to get too hung up on the names, I'm just happy that hockey is being played and people are watching and enjoying and arguing over semantics seems not all that meaningful. The World Cup isn't technically best-on-best but for my money, it's a helluva lot closer than the WHC. I have no problem with the WHC being called what it is, maybe I should but I really don't care. I hardly ever watch it myself just because there's other things to do and I probably spend too much time watching hockey (and other sports) as it is. It's a great tournament though and definitely deserves to be respected.

What was that Shakespeare said about a rose ...

"What’s in a name? That which we call a rose,
By any other word would smell as sweet"


Perfect use. Remove the labels and names along with the baggage they carry. Enjoy it for what it is with an open mind.

 

[Jablkon]

Which brings us back full circle, why can't the IIHF adjust it's scheduling of the WHC to make it work better? it is not like they have some competing interests it would conflict with.

The NHL already provides most of the players and most importantly the star players, why must they do more when they already provide almost everything already that makes that tournament even worth watching?

I am not sure if anybody even wants it. I am almost sure NHL does not have intention to send best players to WHC every year. This would therefore probably mean having WHC at least every 2nd year. A lot of people mentioning it right now mostly because of quite of a lot weaker games, lack of interest from some countries, like Sweden, Canada's domination with not even best team and USA success with university teams.

I personally dont have clear opinion on it. Probably most comfortable way for me would be to have WHC (even if its not BOB)every year with 3-8 NHL players in Czech team, competitive team Canada and USA. i dont want to see same players in my team every year as there must be room for other guys to play on top level and get experience (true I dont remember communist times that much so I dont know how is to be to watch basically same players every year fordecade, it might open old rivalies and stregnten the reputation of national teams).

Having it every year is good for development of european players and also its a top hockey what you can see here. So I would definetely miss peak of my season. Still, due to reasons above, there is a risk that it will loose reputation.

anyway more and more top players would strengten IIHF position and I am not sure thats what NHL wants. Ehm I am sure they dont want it. So present situation seems to be like status quo. I am pretty sure that Fasel is wishing WC to be NHLs own goal...

 

[Gary Nylund]

I am not sure if anybody even wants it. I am almost sure NHL does not have intention to send best players to WHC every year. This would therefore probably mean having WHC at least every 2nd year. A lot of people mentioning it right now mostly because of quite of a lot weaker games, lack of interest from some countries, like Sweden, Canada's domination with not even best team and USA success with university teams.

I personally dont have clear opinion on it. Probably most comfortable way for me would be to have WHC (even if its not BOB)every year with 3-8 NHL players in Czech team, competitive team Canada and USA. i dont want to see same players in my team every year as there must be room for other guys to play on top level and get experience (true I dont remember communist times that much so I dont know how is to be to watch basically same players every year fordecade, it might open old rivalies and stregnten the reputation of national teams).

Having it every year is good for development of european players and also its a top hockey what you can see here. So I would definetely miss peak of my season. Still, due to reasons above, there is a risk that it will loose reputation.

anyway more and more top players would strengten IIHF position and I am not sure thats what NHL wants. Ehm I am sure they dont want it. So present situation seems to be like status quo. I am pretty sure that Fasel is wishing WC to be NHLs own goal...

Absolutely correct and I'd say that goes just as much for the players as it does for the owners. The NHL season is such a long grind as it is. And if the WHC took place after the season is over, can you imagine players who just finished playing in the Stanley Cup final getting up to play another tournament?

For all the NHL's best to play and considering what a grind the NHL is, the only realistic option is have the NHL's best play once every 4 years. Even once every 2 years seems like it's pushing it so IMO it's either Olympics or the World Cup. It's beginning to feel more and more like the World Cup is what it will be. For me personally that's fine as I'm confident there will be no gimmick teams next time and these tournaments have been consistently awesome in the past. I understand that many of you (mostly Euro fans) have a problem with that though so for your sake, I hope the IOC comes to their senses immediately, announces that they will happily cover the NHL's expenses and begs them to participate. If not, it could be game over.

 

[Jablkon]

Absolutely correct and I'd say that goes just as much for the players as it does for the owners. The NHL season is such a long grind as it is. And if the WHC took place after the season is over, can you imagine players who just finished playing in the Stanley Cup final getting up to play another tournament?

For all the NHL's best to play and considering what a grind the NHL is, the only realistic option is have the NHL's best play once every 4 years. Even once every 2 years seems like it's pushing it so IMO it's either Olympics or the World Cup. It's beginning to feel more and more like the World Cup is what it will be. For me personally that's fine as I'm confident there will be no gimmick teams next time and these tournaments have been consistently awesome in the past. I understand that many of you (mostly Euro fans) have a problem with that though so for your sake, I hope the IOC comes to their senses immediately, announces that they will happily cover the NHL's expenses and begs them to participate. If not, it could be game over.

agree, postponing WHC after NhL does not make any sense. NHl players would be tired and some euro ones would have to wait almost three months to play. Even September does not make sense. Its quite extraordinary date for big tourney. I mean once a four years is ok, but having peak of the season in the beginning does not make so much sense imo.

So yep, OG or WC. i am preferring OGs and lets put there WC somewhere, lets say every 6 years...


btw. What does " covering expenses" include?

 

[Gary Nylund]

agree, postponing WHC after NhL does not make any sense. NHl players would be tired and some euro ones would have to wait almost three months to play. Even September does not make sense. Its quite extraordinary date for big tourney. I mean once a four years is ok, but having peak of the season in the beginning does not make so much sense imo.

So yep, OG or WC. i am preferring OGs and lets put there WC somewhere, lets say every 6 years...


btw. What does " covering expenses" include?

I believe expenses is mostly transportation and insurance. I'm assuming insurance is the really expensive part.

Re. the timing, the problem with the OG break is that it disrupts the flow of the NHL season. Of course the OG happens when it happens so if that's the way they go, they will live with it and it is only once every 4 years so it's not too bad. If the OG doesn't work out though, I don't think they'll ever disrupt the season and have the World Cup in September instead. For my money, the best hockey I've ever seen was in September 1987 so I'm not worried about the quality at all.

 

[jj cale]

Having it every year is good for development of european players and also its a top hockey what you can see here. So I would definetely miss peak of my season. Still, due to reasons above, there is a risk that it will loose reputation.

I have to tell you, the development of European players is not a concern of mine and won't be on any list of reasons that would persuade me to change my mind on scuttling the WHC as a yearly event.

I like the WHC and have been watching it since a kid but I've gotta say that having it every year is just overkill now with all the demands on players.

 

[Jablkon]

I have to tell you, the development of European players is not a concern of mine and won't be on any list of reasons that would persuade me to change my mind on scuttling the WHC as a yearly event.

I like the WHC and have been watching it since a kid but I've gotta say that having it every year is just overkill now with all the demands on players.

This is just my private opinion. I just like when teams are different. Btw Canada and especially US do the same. I dont know what demands you talking about. It finishes even before SC final so there is no extra demand what players should not be used to.

 

[llwyd]

Nelonen will air the pre-tournament exhibition games and group games live.

That late start times will definitely eat up the morning shift viewers.

Excellent news! I doubt if I'll watch the matches live, but will certainly record them. I'm not a huge fan of this or previous cups, but they still are high quality hockey and quite interesting milestones as regards the relative strength of the various nations (and I guess also these weird pseudo-teams). Still, it doesn't even begin to compare with Olympic best-on-best hockey, mere thought is absurd.

 

[xxxx]

Excellent news! I doubt if I'll watch the matches live, but will certainly record them. I'm not a huge fan of this or previous cups, but they still are high quality and quite interesting milestones as regards the relative strength of the various nations (and I guess also these weird pseudo-teams). Still, it doesn't even begin to compare with Olympic best-on-best , mere thought is absurd.

world cup hockey is absolutely the same if not better than olympic hockey, given the NHL ice. In terms of importance, WC matters as much to me and even though the olympics might be bigger, the players want to win both the same.

 

[Jablkon]

I believe expenses is mostly transportation and insurance. I'm assuming insurance is the really expensive part.

Re. the timing, the problem with the OG break is that it disrupts the flow of the NHL season. Of course the OG happens when it happens so if that's the way they go, they will live with it and it is only once every 4 years so it's not too bad. If the OG doesn't work out though, I don't think they'll ever disrupt the season and have the World Cup in September instead. For my money, the best hockey I've ever seen was in September 1987 so I'm not worried about the quality at all.

I dont know how it works but dont hockey federations pay insurence for players coming to play on WHC? Insurence for middle of the season is probably higher and entire team definetely need high budget but there must be some way how to share it. It would be i teresting to know how it worked before...

 

[1Gold Standard]

I dont know how it works but dont hockey federations pay insurence for players coming to play on WHC? Insurence for middle of the season is probably higher and entire team definetely need high budget but there must be some way how to share it. It would be i teresting to know how it worked before...

For the IIHF WHC, yes, the individual National Federations cover the cost of player insurance.

I don't think there is any premium on the timing of the tournament, i.e. cheaper in the fall as opposed to mid-season or end of season, just the value of the contracts being insured at that particular time with risk assessment, recent player history. for example when Crosby was returning from his 2 seasons of injury, there may have been more of a premium paid to insure his contract then as opposed to now.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

world cup hockey is absolutely the same if not better than olympic hockey, given the NHL ice. In terms of importance, WC matters as much to me and even though the olympics might be bigger, the players want to win both the same.

no no no... no no no no bro. [MOD]
None of that is even near the truth I'll tell you that right away. Those are just dreams and maybe your personal belief, but that is as untrue as it can be. I know that you are a hardcore fan of the WC, but we don´t need to start lying about obvious facts mate.

At most, the swedish players have said that this tournament "will be fun to play in".
Russian players don´t really bother wether they are chosen or not for this one, it's the olympics that matter.
Those are the 2 clearest views I can give you about the importance among players about this tournament.

 

[Gary Nylund]

no no no... no no no no bro. [MOD]
None of that is even near the truth I'll tell you that right away. Those are just dreams and maybe your personal belief, but that is as untrue as it can be. I know that you are a hardcore fan of the WC, but we don´t need to start lying about obvious facts mate.

Take a deep breath and relax. There are a number of people (including myself) for whom the Olympics aren't so special that they are automatically more important than the WC and that's a fact.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

Take a deep breath and relax. There are a number of people (including myself) for whom the Olympics aren't so special that they are automatically more important than the WC and that's a fact.

Well, mate. It's pretty much just you and TrueHockeyFan that have these extremist opinions about how great WC is on these forums so yea, maybe 5% of all the canadien hockey fans have those opinions as well?
Edit: Saying that for the players the WC is as important as the Olympics is just a rubbish thing to say. It is exactly as saying that players want to win the SC as much as WHC.
In Europe at least, people know much more about the WHCs history than the CC/WC. It's mostly among those who lived to see the great battles during 70's/80's that know about it, yet those are the most sceptic ones to this tournament. In Russia it's a little different since you know the battles vs Canada pretty well, but their interest for this upcoming cup isn´t really going to outperform the % of the tv ratings of for example Sweden unless Russia makes it to the final vs Canada.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well, mate. It's pretty much just you and TrueHockeyFan that have these extremist opinions about how great WC is on these forums so yea, maybe 5% of all the canadien hockey fans have those opinions as well?
Edit: Saying that for the players the WC is as important as the Olympics is just a rubbish thing to say. It is exactly as saying that players want to win the SC as much as WHC.
In Europe at least, people know much more about the WHCs history than the CC/WC. It's mostly among those who lived to see the great battles during 70's/80's that know about it, yet those are the most sceptic ones to this tournament. In Russia it's a little different since you know the battles vs Canada pretty well, but their interest for this upcoming cup isn´t really going to outperform the % of the tv ratings of for example Sweden unless Russia makes it to the final vs Canada.

I wasn't talking about the upcoming WC but the Canada/World Cups in general.

In NA, players in general want to win the SC much more than the WHC and it's not even close. That may be rubbish to you but nevertheless, that's the way it is. IF you think kids in Canada grow up dreaming of winning the WHC then you're just wrong, period.

Opinions vary widely from Russia to Sweden to the US and Canada etc. and opinions vary even within specific countries. You have your opinions, that's great. Thinking everyone feels the same way as you do is nothing but egoism at it's finest. My fondest International hockey memories are from 1972, 1976, 1987 and 2002. That's 1 OG out of 4. I can assure you there are many others who also feel that OG hockey has nothing on past Canada/World Cups, you can believe what you like but stating that it's not true as if you somehow know for a fact how everyone else in the world feels is just arrogance.

 

[jj cale]

This is just my private opinion. I just like when teams are different. Btw Canada and especially US do the same. I dont know what demands you talking about. It finishes even before SC final so there is no extra demand what players should not be used to.

The demands of an 82 game season plus playoffs.

It's a long hard season, they need more time off.

 

[xxxx]

no no no... no no no no bro. [MOD]
None of that is even near the truth I'll tell you that right away. Those are just dreams and maybe your personal belief, but that is as untrue as it can be. I know that you are a hardcore fan of the WC, but we don´t need to start lying about obvious facts mate.

At most, the swedish players have said that this tournament "will be fun to play in".
Russian players don´t really bother wether they are chosen or not for this one, it's the olympics that matter.
Those are the 2 clearest views I can give you about the importance among players about this tournament.

I don't disagree that Olympics are the bigger stage, of course it is, but you can say that about likely any international championship among the olympics sports. It's the biggest stage on the planet and I like that. I definitely believe that an olympic medal is something special and the tournament too. But when we talk about quality of hockey and the effort and motivation of players, you won't see any difference in those factors with the NHL playoffs, Olympics, or World Cup. Players who have won the SC and the olympics have often said that for them it's likely equall, or both are different and special in their own ways. I'm pretty sure that Lemieux or Gretzky put the 87 Canada Cup on the level of winning their Stanley Cups. I don't think this year's format changes much. For canadian players it seems to be very important tournament. When I heard Crosby talking about it, I don't think it's any lower than any of the previous world cups.

I heard russian players being excited about the tournament, including Ovechkin or Namesntikov, for example, and Tretiak said himself Russia takes the tournament very seriously.

“We want to show the world a good example of Russian hockey. We are taking this tournament very seriously, and we are eager to play well.”

 

[xxxx]

Well, mate. It's pretty much just you and TrueHockeyFan that have these extremist opinions about how great WC is on these so yea, maybe 5% of all the canadien fans have those opinions as well?

Extremist opinions? 5% ? Those 90+% of the tickets that are already sold clearly support your beliefs. Or even almost sold-out pre-tournament game in Columbus, United States, for example.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

I wasn't talking about the upcoming WC but the Canada/World Cups in general.

In NA, players in general want to win the SC much more than the WHC and it's not even close. That may be rubbish to you but nevertheless, that's the way it is. IF you think kids in Canada grow up dreaming of winning the WHC then you're just wrong, period.

Why do you even bring this up? I know that comparing SC to WHC is rubbish, that's why I did it to show you that comparing WC and OG is as rubbish.

Opinions vary widely from Russia to Sweden to the US and Canada etc. and opinions vary even within specific countries. You have your opinions, that's great. Thinking everyone feels the same way as you do is nothing but egoism at it's finest. My fondest International hockey memories are from 1972, 1976, 1987 and 2002. That's 1 OG out of 4. I can assure you there are many others who also feel that OG hockey has nothing on past Canada/World Cups, you can believe what you like but stating that it's not true as if you somehow know for a fact how everyone else in the world feels is just arrogance.

The difference is that I'm looking to facts and to statements from people and since I myself am from a hockey town that is a top producer of NHL players and people in general are very hockey interested and have close ties to these players (and I see lots of em every summer and through my job) I think I'm making a very fact based statement about hos people feel about the WC etc. I myself are among the ones that actually wanted to go to WC this year and I'm going to stay up til 5 in the morning watching the games but my friends and their families will probably just watch highlights the day after, but you don´t hear me being pro-WC? That's because I'm giving you the view of many, and not just mine, because that would be as irrelevant as yours or TrueHockeyFans opinion. After all, we on this forum are all hardcore fans watching pretty much everything, so unless we try speak for how our friends/families/medias in our regions etc. generally behave its not trustworthy. That is why I call a total lie on TrueHockeyFans statement about players/fans seeing WC as being as important, because that is nothing else than a total lie. Sure, you say for some people at least, and I believe that, but he said it as it was a universal fact.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

But when we talk about quality of hockey and the effort and motivation of players, you won't see any difference in those factors with the NHL playoffs, Olympics, or World Cup.

I heard russian players being excited about the tournament, including Ovechkin or Namesntikov, for example, and Tretiak said himself Russia takes the tournament very seriously.

You are not going to see russian players being nervous as in the olympics or WCH, you are not going to see the players standing in the circle in the middle after eventually failing and taking the crowds boo's from the crowd because they feel they deserve them (given that there are enough russian fans at the game), you are not going to see russian fans in huge numbers demanding their players to apologize to the country for failing, you are not going to see players apologizing for a failure, you are not going to see anyone demanding the coach to resign however bad they have played, you are not going to see the players cry if they win/lose the tournament and you are definetly not going to see the team being invited to the presidential palace taking a ceremonial photo with Putin if they would win it.

That's one of the differences between WC and WHC/Olympics.
As any professional player of any sport you are going to do your best and say that whatever you are competing in is fun/important, but the "little" things as i mentioned won´t be there, the same adrenaline rush or nervousity won´t be there.

 

[xxxx]

I don't know about crying, but I can assure you they will be sad if eliminated I'm pretty sure they will play the game with the same intensity as the olympics, just watch.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why do you even bring this up? I know that comparing SC to WHC is rubbish, that's why I did it to show you that comparing WC and OG is as rubbish.

You might want to read your original post again, it sounded like you were implying that the WHC>>>>>>>>SC which is what I responding to - it's the other way around over here.

The difference is that I'm looking to facts and to statements from people and since I myself am from a hockey town that is a top producer of NHL players and people in general are very hockey interested and have close ties to these players (and I see lots of em every summer and through my job) I think I'm making a very fact based statement about hos people feel about the WC etc. I myself are among the ones that actually wanted to go to WC this year and I'm going to stay up til 5 in the morning watching the games but my friends and their families will probably just watch highlights the day after, but you don´t hear me being pro-WC? That's because I'm giving you the view of many, and not just mine, because that would be as irrelevant as yours or TrueHockeyFans opinion. After all, we on this forum are all hardcore fans watching pretty much everything, so unless we try speak for how our friends/families/medias in our regions etc. generally behave its not trustworthy. That is why I call a total lie on TrueHockeyFans statement about players/fans seeing WC as being as important, because that is nothing else than a total lie. Sure, you say for some people at least, and I believe that, but he said it as it was a universal fact.

You're doing it again. Do not presume that the opinions of you and your friends are representative of the rest of the world and everyone that disagrees is a liar, that's just silly. Show a little respect for the opinions of others and it might be possible to have a discussion.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

You might want to read your original post again, it sounded like you were implying that the WHC>>>>>>>>SC which is what I responding to - it's the other way around over here.

You're doing it again. Do not presume that the opinions of you and your friends are representative of the rest of the world and everyone that disagrees is a liar, that's just silly. Show a little respect for the opinions of others and it might be possible to have a discussion.

Either you're ignoring on purpose or just being selective when reading because your answers are all the same in this thread when responding. You chose the sentences as if they are alone while ignoring the buildup to them which explains how they are relevant. You've been doing it from the start in this thread in response to others as well, i've read it all. I feel as if I have to explain the same thing over from different perspectives for you to catch what I'm trying to say, because when I'm saying how my text is representative for others you seem to read it as if I'm saying the opposite.