WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[Jablkon]

The demands of an 82 game season plus playoffs.

It's a long hard season, they need more time off.

Again, whc finishes before SC final so NHL guys who are going there can not undergo more than in NHL. They must be ready to play 82 + some matches, thats not the issue.

 

[jj cale]

Again, whc finishes before SC final so NHL guys who are going there can not undergo more than in NHL. They must be ready to play 82 + some matches, thats not the issue.

I think it is when you hold that tournament every year, too much hockey on them.

Have it every 4 years, players need rest not having to go play in that unneeded tournament every year.A lot of years the players that are going to the WHC have played extra games in playoff hockey in previous years.

No-one needs a WHC every year except the IIHF who want to make money off it.

At least that is how I see it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well, mate. It's pretty much just you and TrueHockeyFan that have these extremist opinions about how great WC is on these forums so yea, maybe 5% of all the canadien hockey fans have those opinions as well?
Edit: Saying that for the players the WC is as important as the Olympics is just a rubbish thing to say. It is exactly as saying that players want to win the SC as much as WHC.
In Europe at least, people know much more about the WHCs history than the CC/WC. It's mostly among those who lived to see the great battles during 70's/80's that know about it, yet those are the most sceptic ones to this tournament. In Russia it's a little different since you know the battles vs Canada pretty well, but their interest for this upcoming cup isn´t really going to outperform the % of the tv ratings of for example Sweden unless Russia makes it to the final vs Canada.

Either you're ignoring on purpose or just being selective when reading because your answers are all the same in this thread when responding. You chose the sentences as if they are alone while ignoring the buildup to them which explains how they are relevant. You've been doing it from the start in this thread in response to others as well, i've read it all. I feel as if I have to explain the same thing over from different perspectives for you to catch what I'm trying to say, because when I'm saying how my text is representative for others you seem to read it as if I'm saying the opposite.

I think maybe we have a language barrier between us. See your post above (the part in red and bold). There is simply no way you can say this based on what you and your friends think (for one thing, my friends think different, are your friends somehow more important?). How many people are commenting in this thread isn't a valid barometer either for many reasons. I really don't know how else to put it, my apologies if I'm not expressing myself well enough.

 

[snipes]

I think it is when you hold that tournament every year, too much hockey on them.

Have it every 4 years, players need rest not having to go play in that unneeded tournament every year.A lot of years the players that are going to the WHC have played extra games in playoff hockey in previous years.

No-one needs a WHC every year except the IIHF who want to make money off it.

At least that is how I see it.

We usually agree, but I disagree with you here.

The WHC is an important annual event for the hockey world. Especially for the smaller hockey nations, we tend to overlook that. Look how much it mattered to the Hungarian fans, or the Latvian fans.

That's why the WHC is an important tradition in the hockey world, it's not for the Big 6 and hockey powers. We know it's not best-on-best, but it's still good hockey. It's a way for us to come together in the spring as hockey nations and celebrate our game.

I've realized thinking about this, the hockey world is bigger than just the hockey power nations. We can have our best-on-best competitions, but these tournaments matter to countries like Denmark, Belarus, Norway, Latvia, etc. It's important to keep this tradition going.

 

[jj cale]

We usually agree, but I disagree with you here.

The WHC is an important annual event for the hockey world. Especially for the smaller hockey nations, we tend to overlook that. Look how much it mattered to the Hungarian fans, or the Latvian fans.

That's why the WHC is an important tradition in the hockey world, it's not for the Big 6 and hockey powers. We know it's not best-on-best, but it's still good hockey. It's a way for us to come together in the spring as hockey nations and celebrate our game.

I've realized thinking about this, the hockey world is bigger than just the hockey power nations. We can have our best-on-best competitions, but these tournaments matter to countries like Denmark, Belarus, Norway, Latvia, etc. It's important to keep this tradition going.

What you are saying is true, I just think it's a lot of extra wear and tear on the NHL players myself.

I do like the tournament and have watched it since a little boy in the 1970's.

It's a tradition for me, i just wonder if it is a little overdone at this point. I also think it should not be so Eurocentric either, an international tournament that is held in Europe every year? That says a lot about who that tournament is really for................Europe.

It doesn't say much for the IIHF as an international body for hockey imo.

 

[snipes]

What you are saying is true, I just think it's a lot of extra wear and tear on the NHL players myself.

I do like the tournament and have watched it since a little boy in the 1970's.

It's a tradition for me, i just wonder if it is a little overdone at this point. I also think it should not be so Eurocentric either, an international tournament that is held in Europe every year? That says a lot about who that tournament is really for................Europe.

I agree it's Eurocentric. But by sheer number of countries, most of the nations participating are European countries.

Hockey is our game, we have an obligation to share our game with the world. The WHC matters to the smaller hockey nations. Hockey allows us to share with our European friends Canadian culture and show them who we are as a nation. Canada and hockey will always be associated together.

Look at how excited countries like Hungary were to play us. It was a big deal for them to play the Canadians. I haven't until recently really considered how much this meant to the smaller hockey countries, it's a big deal to them. We can't take that from them. Even to a country like Finland, they are a hockey crazed nation and love this tournament. Finns and Canadians share many cultural similarities, hockey is what makes these interactions happen.

I guess what I'm saying is our participation and support of the WHC is bigger than just hockey.

 

[jj cale]

I agree it's Eurocentric. But by sheer number of countries, most of the nations participating are European countries.

Hockey is our game, we have an obligation to share our game with the world. The WHC matters to the smaller hockey nations. Hockey allows us to share with our European friends Canadian culture and show them who we are as a nation. Canada and hockey will always be associated together.

Look at how excited countries like Hungary were to play us. It was a big deal for them to play the Canadians. I haven't until recently really considered how much this meant to the smaller hockey countries, it's a big deal to them. We can't take that from them. Even to a country like Finland, they are a hockey crazed nation and love this tournament. Finns and Canadians share many cultural similarities, hockey is what makes these interactions happen.

I guess what I'm saying is our participation and support of the WHC is bigger than just hockey.

Yeah, you've got a valid point here.

I think you've almost convinced me.

 

[snipes]

Yeah, you've got a valid point here.

I think you've almost convinced me.

It might be our game, but other countries love hockey too. It wouldn't be very Canadian of us to not share our game with open arms with our European friends.

However, kindness is not weakness. When it's game time, the battle is on .

 

[FuriousSenator]

We usually agree, but I disagree with you here.

The WHC is an important annual event for the hockey world. Especially for the smaller hockey nations, we tend to overlook that. Look how much it mattered to the Hungarian fans, or the Latvian fans.

That's why the WHC is an important tradition in the hockey world, it's not for the Big 6 and hockey powers. We know it's not best-on-best, but it's still good hockey. It's a way for us to come together in the spring as hockey nations and celebrate our game.

I've realized thinking about this, the hockey world is bigger than just the hockey power nations. We can have our best-on-best competitions, but these tournaments matter to countries like Denmark, Belarus, Norway, Latvia, etc. It's important to keep this tradition going.

This. I think part of the problem is the irritating N. American obsession with 'best on best'. 'best on best'! 'I only want to see the best teams play!' 'I don't watch anything that's "lower level"' 'I cheer for Golden State now!' etc.. etc.. etc.. barf.

It's gotten to the point where we have this mess now where the "best hockey nations" (as defined by the expectations of the dumb masses) are gifted spots into the 'best on best tournament of our generation'.....

At some point this stops becoming sport and starts becoming like a WWE set-up.....

Hell in soccer even Germany and England have to FIGHT to QUALIFY for the world cup. They aren't gifted a spot. They play for it.

The World Hockey Championship is awesome because teams play into it. I'm always sooo interested in seeing how the lesser hockey nations (statistically) do.. who get's promoted, who get's relegated. Those games are full of interest.

Canada vs. Team Young Guns? What on earth is there to get excited about??

 

[snipes]

This. I think part of the problem is the irritating N. American obsession with 'best on best'. 'best on best'! 'I only want to see the best teams play!' 'I don't watch anything that's "lower level"' 'I cheer for Golden State now!' etc.. etc.. etc.. barf.

It's gotten to the point where we have this mess now where the "best hockey nations" (as defined by the expectations of the dumb masses) are gifted spots into the 'best on best tournament of our generation'.....

At some point this stops becoming sport and starts becoming like a WWE set-up.....

Hell in soccer even Germany and England have to FIGHT to QUALIFY for the world cup. They aren't gifted a spot. They play for it.

The World Hockey Championship is awesome because teams play into it. I'm always sooo interested in seeing how the lesser hockey nations (statistically) do.. who get's promoted, who get's relegated. Those games are full of interest.

Canada vs. Team Young Guns? What on earth is there to get excited about??

Agreed. We've almost become too snobbish about it. The WHC is an awesome event and it's fun to see different hockey traditions (i.e. the Czechs jumping up and down singing) and see how much it means to the smaller hockey nations.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I'm not as afraid of Canadian players as I am of their depth.

 

[jj cale]

Agreed. We've almost become too snobbish about it. The WHC is an awesome event and it's fun to see different hockey traditions (i.e. the Czechs jumping up and down singing) and see how much it means to the smaller hockey nations.

But European fans have always been snobbish about the Canada/World cups too and I think that is what turns N.A fans off and makes them want to retaliate in kind concerning the WHC. Euro fans have always badmouthed the Canada/World cup and it rubs a lot of us the wrong way.

The backlash to the WHC would not be nearly as bad if the crap slung at our organized tournaments by them wasn't so nasty and unreasonable.

They are just as bad as us if not worse, lot of blame to go around.

 

[jj cale]

I'm not as afraid of Canadian players as I am of their depth.

Not afraid of Finland either, think they actually may not advance.


They are in tough, every opponent they will face in their group is more talented. They have been known to work around that lately but it's impossible to make happen every time.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Not afraid of Finland either, think they actually may not advance.


They are in tough, every opponent they will face in their group is more talented. They have been known to work around that lately but it's impossible to make happen every time.

This group is a lot better than in Sochi and will be even better in 2018.

 

[snipes]

But European fans have always been snobbish about the Canada/World cups too and I think that is what turns N.A fans off and makes them want to retaliate in kind concerning the WHC. Euro fans have always badmouthed the Canada/World cup and it rubs a lot of us the wrong way.

The backlash to the WHC would not be nearly as bad if the crap slung at our organized tournaments by them wasn't so nasty and unreasonable.

They are just as bad as us if not worse, lot of blame to go around.

Fair enough. We both have some blame.

All the more reason to keep the Olympics. It is universally agreed upon as best-on-best.

 

[snipes]

This group is a lot better than in Sochi and will be even better in 2018.

2022 looks to be a strong year for Suomi. 2018 might be a little early. You guys need to develop more Dmen to win a best-on-best. The young crop of forwards with Barkov, Laine, Pulju, Aho looks good going forward.

Without those elite D throughout the lineup, it'll be tough to win a best-on-best when the level of play ramps up in the Gold medal game (as seen at the 2016 WHC, Canada suffocated the Finnish D and dominated them with a relentless wave after wave forecheck).

 

[jj cale]

This group is a lot better than in Sochi and will be even better in 2018.

But it remains to be seen whether that will be a good thing or not. Sometimes with more talent the team game falls apart.........and finland has really depended on that team game over the years. They will also start to be looked at as a real powerhouse, not a role Finland is used to, it is a whole different ballgame in that position and who knows whether they will handle that well or not, way more pressure on them.

And even with it being a more talented team on paper for this WCH then the team in Sochi they still will be the least talented team in it's group IMO. Results from sochi don't automatically carry over for Finland or any other team regardless of how more or less talented a team is from one tournament to another.

We will see how they do soon enough, they have some good teams to beat, I don't think it's a given they even advance.

Tough task ahead for Finland.

 

[torero]

I think it is when you hold that tournament every year, too much hockey on them.

Have it every 4 years, players need rest not having to go play in that unneeded tournament every year.A lot of years the players that are going to the WHC have played extra games in playoff hockey in previous years.

No-one needs a WHC every year except the IIHF who want to make money off it.

At least that is how I see it.

i WANT a WHC every year !
Europe is basically used to it. All our championships (including KHL) end in april mai ... allowing for a WC. It is the end of year .. and then summer.
Olympic games are more important ... but a year without WC would be a sad year. (an i am serious - it is a week you watch hockey everyday on a nations level before entering summer pause.)

And I consider this "World Cup" organized by the NHL as a tournament of players playing in NHL. With teams Canada, teams US, and teams NA -20 and team "Europe" ... teams. In no way it represents nations ... maybe Canada or the US ... but even then, some players that are absolutely good will play in -20 team NA. So they do not represent a country. It is an interesting pre-championship tournament with high quality players.. i wonder what is at stake ?

NA is used to have lying titles (at least this is how i see it) like this World Cup ... and you have many other lying titles used as a blend. Your marketing firms, politics, armies, lobbies use these lying and misleading titles a lot. In Europe you have it less because such an attempt would be doomed to fail (we had some ) ... people think what is the title, and what are they doing ? the title will not embelish the story , but rather the mismatch will trigger suspicion.

Whatever .. this "World Cup" will be interesting ... for sure. But is not a world cup !

 

[jj cale]

i WANT a WHC every year !
Europe is basically used to it. All our championships (including KHL) end in april mai ... allowing for a WC. It is the end of year .. and then summer.

I know European fans want one every year, it is a popular tournament over there.

I have thought for awhile now that it should be reduced to every 4 years but snipe made some good points on why it should still be held every year and I think they are good points that I had not really considered before.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This. I think part of the problem is the irritating N. American obsession with 'best on best'. 'best on best'! 'I only want to see the best teams play!' 'I don't watch anything that's "lower level"' 'I cheer for Golden State now!' etc.. etc.. etc.. barf.

It's gotten to the point where we have this mess now where the "best hockey nations" (as defined by the expectations of the dumb masses) are gifted spots into the 'best on best tournament of our generation'.....

At some point this stops becoming sport and starts becoming like a WWE set-up.....

Hell in soccer even Germany and England have to FIGHT to QUALIFY for the world cup. They aren't gifted a spot. They play for it.

The World Hockey Championship is awesome because teams play into it. I'm always sooo interested in seeing how the lesser hockey nations (statistically) do.. who get's promoted, who get's relegated. Those games are full of interest.

Canada vs. Team Young Guns? What on earth is there to get excited about??

I haven't heard anyone question that the 6 national teams in the World Cup are the best 6 national teams in the world so yeah in a sense they were gifted a spot but in another sense, they earned it by showing that they're clearly one of the best 6 teams in the world. But you do have a point in the sense that at another point in time, it might be much less clear who the top 6 (or top 8 or whatever) teams are and then it gets dicey.

I completely agree the gimmick teams suck.

Fair enough. We both have some blame.

All the more reason to keep the Olympics. It is universally agreed upon as best-on-best.

I think we're all hoping the Olympics continue with NHL players.

 

[Lepardi]

Hell in soccer even Germany and England have to FIGHT to QUALIFY for the world cup. They aren't gifted a spot. They play for it.

When would you make Canada play in the qualification for a World Cup of hockey? In August? In July? Germany's soccer team plays against other European nations in the qualifiers. Who would you make Canada play? Should they have an American qualifying group? Maybe they could have teams like Canada, USA, Cuba, Guatemala, Mexico, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Brazil compete for two spots in the World Cup of hockey. I wonder which two teams would qualify.

If you don't like teams just "being gifted" spots in the World Cup, we might as well say that the top-6 in the IIHF men's world ranking qualify automatically. That's Canada, Russia, Finland, USA, Sweden and the Czech Republic. They weren't "gifted" those spots by the dumb masses. They earned their spots in the top-6 by their performances in international competition.

Btw. do you think it's wrong that USA didn't have to play for a spot in Olympic basketball 2016 or in the World Cup of basketball in 2014? They were just gifted those spots.

"best hockey nations" (as defined by the expectations of the dumb masses)

They're not just top-6 nations "defined by the expectations of the dumb masses". They're the top-6 as defined by international competition, and as defined by the number of players they have in the NHL.

 

[xxxx]

They're not just top-6 nations "defined by the expectations of the dumb masses". They're the top-6 as defined by international competition, and as defined by the number of players they have in the NHL.

Wow. Finally someone gets it.

 

[Lepardi]

Wow. Finally someone gets it.

When looking at the IIHF rankings, I also can't help noticing that Team North America and Team Europe are nowhere to be seen.

 

[xxxx]

Fair enough. We both have some blame.

All the more reason to keep the Olympics. It is universally agreed upon as best-on-best.

The World Cup is also best-on-best, or basicall best-on-best... some people going too strict about it. This might be the best tournament ever, but sure, let's bring it down becase of nitpicking. (not talking about you particularly)

When looking at the IIHF rankings, I also can't help noticing that Team North America and Team Europe are nowhere to be seen.

this is tournament organized by a non-international body. I know some people are pissed, but it's simply a legit hockey tournament never the less. I think a tournament like this needed to be here (NHL rules, NHL ice, in Canada, with mostly the best NHLers, including nations that wouldn't normally get a chance). Let's see how it goes and how popular it is.

 

[snipes]

The World Cup is also best-on-best, or basicall best-on-best... some people going too strict about it. This might be the best tournament ever, but sure, let's bring it down becase of nitpicking. (not talking about you particularly)


this is tournament organized by a non-international body. I know some people are pissed, but it's simply a legit hockey tournament never the less. I think a tournament like this needed to be here (NHL rules, NHL ice, in Canada, with mostly the best NHLers, including nations that wouldn't normally get a chance). Let's see how it goes and how popular it is.

It is indeed the best talent in the world at a single event. These are the best teams #1-8 that have ever competed at a single tournament. There is no precedent for it.