WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[XokkeyGuy]

They lose the biggest money though, this is the biggest hockey league in the world. They have the most to lose not only in terms of league shutdown but ramifications due to star injuries and whatnot.

This is not some danish pro league, this is the NHL we are talking about.

They have the biggest investments and the most to lose.

Yea but it that has not always been the reason. It has not always been that the europeans have played in the NHL and thus the european club have faced possibilities of injuries to their star players too. And the loss in terms of percentage has been as "devastating" to the clubs here.
Again, why isn´t NHL/NA ready to accept international breaks as the rest of the world does in about every sport? In Europe, at least here in Sweden it was even on the topic for quite a long time whether or not to start our league later this year after the World Cup, but in the end after a 50-50 decision we decided to play it from september 20th or something like that anyway, but anyway, they were at least considering it. I think it simply has to do with the difference in mentality because I don´t see a logic explanation where all negative effects are only on the NHL, I get the impression that you guys simply dont value national team pride as much, I might be wrong.. but the gimmic teams now kind of confirms it.. and didn´t a lot of the canadien players leave the team during the 72 series because they wanted salary or something like that? ^^ (I know that last bit was somewhat out of this particular discussion).

 

[jj cale]

Yea but it that has not always been the reason. It has not always been that the europeans have played in the NHL and thus the european club have faced possibilities of injuries to their star players too. And the loss in terms of percentage has been as "devastating" to the clubs here.
Again, why isn´t NHL/NA ready to accept international breaks as the rest of the world does in about every sport? In Europe, at least here in Sweden it was even on the topic for quite a long time whether or not to start our league later this year after the World Cup, but in the end after a 50-50 decision we decided to play it from september 20th or something like that anyway, but anyway, they were at least considering it. I think it simply has to do with the difference in mentality because I don´t see a logic explanation where all negative effects are only on the NHL, I get the impression that you guys simply dont value national team pride as much, I might be wrong.. but the gimmic teams now kind of confirms it.. and didn´t a lot of the canadien players leave the team during the 72 series because they wanted salary or something like that? ^^ (I know that last bit was somewhat out of this particular discussion).

We value national team pride plenty, but here in Canada at least we have an 80 or so year old history with the national Hockey league.

It's the biggest game in town for us.

Regardless, it is all fine and well for you as some normal everyday guy in Vasteras or wherever to say the NHL should do this or that and make itself available to every whim of International hockey tournaments but I can assure you that your tune would quickly change if you were an owner of an NHL franchise with hundreds of millions of dollars of your own money invested in a team.

It's a big business with big money at stake. The NHL has to be somewhat accomodated by the IIHF.

 

[snipes]

Yea but it that has not always been the reason. It has not always been that the europeans have played in the NHL and thus the european club have faced possibilities of injuries to their star players too. And the loss in terms of percentage has been as "devastating" to the clubs here.
Again, why isn´t NHL/NA ready to accept international breaks as the rest of the world does in about every sport? In Europe, at least here in Sweden it was even on the topic for quite a long time whether or not to start our league later this year after the World Cup, but in the end after a 50-50 decision we decided to play it from september 20th or something like that anyway, but anyway, they were at least considering it. I think it simply has to do with the difference in mentality because I don´t see a logic explanation where all negative effects are only on the NHL, I get the impression that you guys simply dont value national team pride as much, I might be wrong.. but the gimmic teams now kind of confirms it.. and didn´t a lot of the canadien players leave the team during the 72 series because they wanted salary or something like that? ^^ (I know that last bit was somewhat out of this particular discussion).

We have plenty of national pride in hockey are you kidding me? 80% of the country watched the Vancouver 2010 Olympics, nearly 50% of the country got up at terrible times to watch the 2014 Sochi Olympics.

At the 2016 World Hockey Championship nearly 1/3 of Canadians tuned in at some point. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

We value national team pride plenty, but here in Canada at least we have an 80 or so year old history with the national Hockey league.

It's the biggest game in town for us.

Regardless, it is all fine and well for you as some normal everyday guy in Vasteras or wherever to say the NHL should do this or that and make itself available to every whim of International hockey tournaments but I can assure you that your tune would quickly change if you were an owner of an NHL franchise with hundreds of millions of dollars of your own money invested in a team.

It's a big business with big money at stake. The NHL has to be somewhat accomodated by the IIHF.

This argument, or a few other of yours and others in protection of NHL's "elitistic" behaviour and failure to compromise is not scientifically correct. While I'm in every post trying to use logic sense and say "This is how something is, how it works and is achieved" while giving empiric evidence I just get replies suggesting things such as "You cant compare that", "We have a history of this and that and we will not do as you say".
Well, sure, you are talking out of a realistic perspective whereas NHL has the money and IIHF can´t sanction it, but in terms of compromising the NHL side is very unwilling to cooperate because all the arguments for it lands in corporate interest, selfishness and greed. Because your arguments aren´t valid when there are great many examples saying something else.
Let me try another way around to get to you, again using the football example, the english premier league in football is the oldest and most iconic one in football but yet they follow everything that FIFA/UEFA says (as I described in previous posts), it has much more money in it than the NHL etc. so.. why has it turned out that way?
Another example, since we're talking about ice hockey, why are KHL ready to have breaks for the world championships? The national team federation there (FHR) and KHL are separate from eachother but both want to send the best players from KHL to all kinds of tournaments, and that are no small money when it comes to Radulov, Kovalchuk and many more.
I simply don´t buy your argument about NHL being a private organization with owners and that's why they behave like that.. yea maybe, but still the europeans don´t behave like that, or any other part of the world for what I know.
After all the arguments it simply falls on the NHL owners being too greedy.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

we have plenty of national pride in hockey are you kidding me? 80% of the country watched the vancouver 2010 olympics, nearly 50% of the country got up at terrible times to watch the 2014 sochi olympics.

At the 2016 world hockey championship nearly 1/3 of canadians tuned in at some point. You don't know what you are talking about.

- - -

i get the impression that you guys simply dont value national team pride as much, i might be wrong but the gimmic teams now kind of confirms it..

Edit: Maybe it's just the NHL owners then, but almost everytime when there are some kind of shows or any other club-sponsored fan enternainment going on people tend to react like "noooo, not plastic arrangements as they have in NA", one GM of a club (Växjö) got so much criticism when she introduced the paper-clapping things that in the end she resigned. I remember during lockouts the guys from NHL always say how good crowds we have here, remembering Chara saying "In USA it's all about families coming to the games enjoying with pop corn while here you have chants, drums and a lot of fan culture". So its not me saying whatever.
Another edit: Also, the way you just "create" teams like Las Vegas and move Atlanta to Winnipeg would never work here. That is just beyond me that it actually works over there, it's probably a good thing that people enjoy that and are open to such inovative ideas, but things without history, culture or local pride would never work here - another reason why it is believed you guys enjoy gimmicks over there. But I get it, it works in KHL too it seems.

 

[snipes]

- - -

You just said it's "confirmed" because of gimmick teams, therefore we don't have pride in our national team?

I showed you that's false.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

You just said it's "confirmed" because of gimmick teams, therefore we don't have pride in our national team?

I showed you that's false.

edited the post a bit now.

 

[jj cale]

This argument, or a few other of yours and others in protection of NHL's "elitistic" behaviour and failure to compromise is not scientifically correct. While I'm in every post trying to use logic sense and say "This is how something is, how it works and is achieved" while giving empiric evidence I just get replies suggesting things such as "You cant compare that", "We have a history of this and that and we will not do as you say".
Well, sure, you are talking out of a realistic perspective whereas NHL has the money and IIHF can´t sanction it, but in terms of compromising the NHL side is very unwilling to cooperate because all the arguments for it lands in corporate interest, selfishness and greed. Because your arguments aren´t valid when there are great many examples saying something else.
Let me try another way around to get to you, again using the football example, the english premier league in football is the oldest and most iconic one in football but yet they follow everything that FIFA/UEFA says (as I described in previous posts), it has much more money in it than the NHL etc. so.. why has it turned out that way?
Another example, since we're talking about ice hockey, why are KHL ready to have breaks for the world championships? The national team federation there (FHR) and KHL are separate from eachother but both want to send the best players from KHL to all kinds of tournaments, and that are no small money when it comes to Radulov, Kovalchuk and many more.
I simply don´t buy your argument about NHL being a private organization with owners and that's why they behave like that.. yea maybe, but still the europeans don´t behave like that, or any other part of the world for what I know.
After all the arguments it simply falls on the NHL owners being too greedy.

But demand for top flight international football and the money to be made out of it is FAR greater then what is available in hockey............that's the difference. FIFA simply has more leverage with the English and other domestic leagues then the IIHF does with the NHL.

Like I said, you cannot for a second compare football and hockey, one is a monolithic global sport with huge amounts of interest for and money to be made from the international game, the other is a regional niche sport with a very limited appetite for the international game and payback to the domestic leagues. And in the case of the NHL it has received little if any return on it's investment thus far.

Why do you keep comparing them?

 

[snipes]

edited the post a bit now.

We do love our national team just as much Russians, Finns, and Swedes love theirs.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

Why do you keep comparing them?

I compare football because I know most about that sport, but as I have also mentioned, this is the same case in pretty much all sports where its best league isnt in the NA. Also the thing is why even all those european football leagues havent made their own organisation or break away from FIFA/UEFA? It would be very easy for them and they would make much more money too.

Anyway, the thing is that you keep talking about the economic aspect for NHL being the main reason, sound as if it was a universal acceptance or knowledge and by comparing other sports and how they are organazing I'm telling you that it doesn´t have to be that way or is not that way because it clearly isn´t a problem in Europe, KHL or any other sport outside NA for some reason.

I'm sure there might be some valid issue that the NHL feel is a threat or undermining it, but the reasons they are saying, or the ones we are arguing about simply aren´t logic enough to be a universal acceptance, I can´t see any other reason than the NHL owners are being too greedy too cooperate, and that's fine, but that is also why we are having this problem and aren´t reaching any solution to it.

Cut the NHL seasons shorter (like the rest of us) so you can start playing in the World Championships and then we will be able to discuss how often it will occur - as it is now there simply isn´t any time since your league ends in the middle of June. That would be an opener.
What is the problem with IIHF to start with? All we do is criticizing the NHL because they are acting elitistic and you guys are just defending them.. but what is really the problem with the IIHF? Is it really IIHF's fault that NHL doesn´t want to have international breaks or do anything for the international teams? You don´t seem to have any problem with the Juniors World Champs since your teams keep sending them each year, but why is it a problem at senior level?

 

[jj cale]

I compare football because I know most about that sport, but as I have also mentioned, this is the same case in pretty much all sports where its best league isnt in the NA. Also the thing is why even all those european football leagues havent made their own organisation or break away from FIFA/UEFA? It would be very easy for them and they would make much more money too.

Anyway, the thing is that you keep talking about the economic aspect for NHL being the main reason, sound as if it was a universal acceptance or knowledge and by comparing other sports and how they are organazing I'm telling you that it doesn´t have to be that way or is not that way because it clearly isn´t a problem in Europe, KHL or any other sport outside NA for some reason.

I'm sure there might be some valid issue that the NHL feel is a threat or undermining it, but the reasons they are saying, or the ones we are arguing about simply aren´t logic enough to be a universal acceptance, I can´t see any other reason than the NHL owners are being too greedy too cooperate, and that's fine, but that is also why we are having this problem and aren´t reaching any solution to it.

Cut the NHL seasons shorter (like the rest of us) so you can start playing in the World Championships and then we will be able to discuss how often it will occur - as it is now there simply isn´t any time since your league ends in the middle of June. That would be an opener.
What is the problem with IIHF to start with? All we do is criticizing the NHL because they are acting elitistic and you guys are just defending them.. but what is really the problem with the IIHF? Is it really IIHF's fault that NHL doesn´t want to have international breaks or do anything for the international teams? You don´t seem to have any problem with the Juniors World Champs since your teams keep sending them each year, but why is it a problem at senior level?

The NHL has been sending it's players to the WHC for decades now and has been at the last 5 olympics. Not sure what the complaint should be from your side of the pond.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

The NHL has been sending it's players to the WHC for decades now and has been at the last 5 olympics. Not sure what the complaint should be from your side of the pond.

Well yea, they are sending the spillovers that are out (and the clubs surely try to convince and do what they can not to send the players there) - Why else would you guys complain about the tournament not having the best players in it? That is the main reason.

 

[Seanaconda]

@robban7 the chl doesn't stop for world juniors the players just go while their teams keep playing. And anyone young enough but that is already in the nhl doesn't go to the world juniors .


Teams can't afford to send their best players away in the nhl while the league keeps going especially when some teams depend on playoff revenue. And no chance any team would lend it's players during the playoffs for the whc. I think the world cup has the perfect start time. Any injuries suffered should be good by the end of the season unless it's something truly awful. And you're not gonna get the nhl to shorten it's season.

I think the nhl will keep going to the Olympics they just want the insurance issues dealt with. So they make a fuss about going hoping a sports network or something will cover it because hockey is the biggest draw during the winter Olympics.

 

[Seanaconda]

Well yea, they are sending the spillovers that are out (and the clubs surely try to convince and do what they can not to send the players there) - Why else would you guys complain about the tournament not having the best players in it? That is the main reason.

change the start date for it. Even then tho players that aren't in the playoffs choose not to go because it's not that prestigious to canadian/American players. Lots of times the good players only go to try and get on team canadas good side to try and get into the good tournaments aka the Olympics and WC this year. Maybe don't have the whc every year and more players would wanna go ?

 

[jj cale]

Well yea, they are sending the spillovers that are out (and the clubs surely try to convince and do what they can not to send the players there) - Why else would you guys complain about the tournament not having the best players in it? That is the main reason.

All the IIHF has to do is go halfway and move the tournament to another time and you will have more of the better players(that is the ones who wish to go, do not forget many players do not want to play, plenty of swedes these days pass also yet you talk about national pride!!)

The NHL already let's the players go, are you saying they should also reschedule their season to boot?

Geez..............................who are the unreasonable ones here anyway?

At what point do those spoiled fat cat brats at the IIHF make some concessions in the interest of co-operation?

They want it all their way!!

 

[XokkeyGuy]

All the IIHF has to do is go halfway and move the tournament to another time and you will have more of the better players(that is the ones who wish to go, do not forget many players do not want to play, plenty of swedes these days pass also yet you talk about national pride!!)

The NHL already let's the players go, are you saying they should also reschedule their season to boot?

Geez..............................who are the unreasonable ones here anyway?

At what point do those spoiled fat cat brats at the IIHF make some concessions in the interest of co-operation?

They want it all their way!!

All other leagues end in April, why can´t NHL? Instead you speak of the IIHF shortening players vacations during the summer period when players are in bad shape and with the risk of turning it into a pre-season cup. What you want is a national team cup right after all the leagues have ended so that you get a "continuation" of the season. Why does the NHL even start that late compared to all other leagues if you feel that august/september is a good time to play ice hockey anyway? Lets start the NHL at the same time as the World Cup starts at least and you'll get an earlier end to the season right there!

 

[jj cale]

All other leagues end in April, why can´t NHL? Instead you speak of the IIHF shortening players vacations during the summer period when players are in bad shape and with the risk of turning it into a pre-season cup. What you want is a national team cup right after all the leagues have ended so that you get a "continuation" of the season. Why does the NHL even start that late compared to all other leagues if you feel that august/september is a good time to play ice hockey anyway? Lets start the NHL at the same time as the World Cup starts at least and you'll get an earlier end to the season right there!

I am not sure why the NHL starts it's season when it does,probably to give the players proper time off from last season.

Is it your point that the league that pays these guys their kings salaries should adjust their season so those players can play in a WHC for free every year so you can be entertained and the IIHF can make a boatload of money?

Is that the gist of your argument?

The league plays an 82 game schedule so those players can make that kind of money and hopefully the owners can make money also.

Forget the NHL..................go ask the players if they would like to take a cut on their salary so they can play in the WHC every year.

Maybe the object of your disdain should be in a different direction.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

I am not sure why the NHL starts it's season when it does,probably to give the players proper time off from last season.

Is it your point that the league that pays these guys their kings salaries should adjust their season so those players can play in a WHC for free every year so you can be entertained and the IIHF can make a boatload of money?

Is that the gist of your argument?

The league plays an 82 game schedule so those players can make that kind of money and hopefully the owners can make money also.

Forget the NHL..................go ask the players if they would like to take a cut on their salary so they can play in the WHC every year.

Maybe the object of your disdain should be in a different direction.

Well, NHL does have a break for the Olympics so that the IIHF can make money and the players are playing for free. Some bonuses are always there but still.
And guess what, that goes for every single sport.

You see? At the same time as your argument has a point, it is also easy to see how it is not something that is worldwide accepted. All other sports, not dominated by the NA has perfect league schedules that goes together with international tournaments with the sort of organization as in the football, but not ice hockey, again, why? Everything starts and ends with the NHL taking up all of the season and refusing to make space for the players playing internationally unless the owners make money themselves somehow even though they are not the ones hosting it.

So why is that? Why is it that all sports that are not dominated by the NA (such as ice hockey, baseball, basketball etc.) have great International Federations with well functioning leagues and international tournaments? Makes you wonder what really works or not. Is it not better to have an international federation where everyone has a say through than a private organization dominating everything for the benefit of its own interests? Because that is exactly what the World Cup is, a tool of power aimed against the IIHF and the sovreignity of the (other) ice hockey federations.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

change the start date for it. Even then tho players that aren't in the playoffs choose not to go because it's not that prestigious to canadian/American players. Lots of times the good players only go to try and get on team canadas good side to try and get into the good tournaments aka the Olympics and WC this year. Maybe don't have the whc every year and more players would wanna go ?

The WHC still can´t be played properly due to NHLs schedule, making it impossible to ever have all the best players there so NHL still has to cut its season or change the dates. Why players choose not to go there is because its domino effect. They don´t want to go there to be the only "good" player, but as soon as your best players, Like Ovechkin, Crosby etc. says "I'll go" quite soon all the good players jumps on. So if you would have NHL being over by the time the WHC starts I'm sure players would not have the same fear of being left alone. Before the 90's (and even during the 90's and early 00's) Sweden and Finland almost always had their best players on the team, no matter if they were out of NHL or still playing at home (as before 90's when it wasnt as usual to move to NHL). Today we have the russians always going and so on. The problem has been mostly with the americans/canadiens not going and I believe it is heavily because of their leagues restrictions... you guys didn´t even send NHL-players for the olympics until like 98 or something, remember?

 

[jj cale]

Well, NHL does have a break for the Olympics so that the IIHF can make money and the players are playing for free. Some bonuses are always there but still.
And guess what, that goes for every single sport.

You see? At the same time as your argument has a point, it is also easy to see how it is not something that is worldwide accepted. All other sports, not dominated by the NA has perfect league schedules that goes together with international tournaments with the sort of organization as in the football, but not ice hockey, again, why? Everything starts and ends with the NHL taking up all of the season and refusing to make space for the players playing internationally unless the owners make money themselves somehow even though they are not the ones hosting it.

So why is that? Why is it that all sports that are not dominated by the NA (such as ice hockey, baseball, basketball etc.) have great International Federations with well functioning leagues and international tournaments? Makes you wonder what really works or not. Is it not better to have an international federation where everyone has a say through than a private organization dominating everything for the benefit of its own interests? Because that is exactly what the World Cup is, a tool of power aimed against the IIHF and the sovreignity of the (other) ice hockey federations.

Which brings us back full circle, why can't the IIHF adjust it's scheduling of the WHC to make it work better? it is not like they have some competing interests it would conflict with.

The NHL already provides most of the players and most importantly the star players, why must they do more when they already provide almost everything already that makes that tournament even worth watching?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yea but it that has not always been the reason. It has not always been that the europeans have played in the NHL and thus the european club have faced possibilities of injuries to their star players too. And the loss in terms of percentage has been as "devastating" to the clubs here.
Again, why isn´t NHL/NA ready to accept international breaks as the rest of the world does in about every sport? In Europe, at least here in Sweden it was even on the topic for quite a long time whether or not to start our league later this year after the World Cup, but in the end after a 50-50 decision we decided to play it from september 20th or something like that anyway, but anyway, they were at least considering it. I think it simply has to do with the difference in mentality because I don´t see a logic explanation where all negative effects are only on the NHL, I get the impression that you guys simply dont value national team pride as much, I might be wrong.. but the gimmic teams now kind of confirms it.. and didn´t a lot of the canadien players leave the team during the 72 series because they wanted salary or something like that? ^^ (I know that last bit was somewhat out of this particular discussion).

No, where did you get this ridiculous idea from?

Well, NHL does have a break for the Olympics so that the IIHF can make money and the players are playing for free. Some bonuses are always there but still.
And guess what, that goes for every single sport.

You see? At the same time as your argument has a point, it is also easy to see how it is not something that is worldwide accepted. All other sports, not dominated by the NA has perfect league schedules that goes together with international tournaments with the sort of organization as in the football, but not ice hockey, again, why? Everything starts and ends with the NHL taking up all of the season and refusing to make space for the players playing internationally unless the owners make money themselves somehow even though they are not the ones hosting it.

So why is that? Why is it that all sports that are not dominated by the NA (such as ice hockey, baseball, basketball etc.) have great International Federations with well functioning leagues and international tournaments? Makes you wonder what really works or not. Is it not better to have an international federation where everyone has a say through than a private organization dominating everything for the benefit of its own interests? Because that is exactly what the World Cup is, a tool of power aimed against the IIHF and the sovreignity of the (other) ice hockey federations.

Well that depends. It sounds like you want the NHL to make some pretty major changes, I'm not sure that this is what I would want at all.

The WHC still can´t be played properly due to NHLs schedule, making it impossible to ever have all the best players there so NHL still has to cut its season or change the dates. Why players choose not to go there is because its domino effect. They don´t want to go there to be the only "good" player, but as soon as your best players, Like Ovechkin, Crosby etc. says "I'll go" quite soon all the good players jumps on. So if you would have NHL being over by the time the WHC starts I'm sure players would not have the same fear of being left alone. Before the 90's (and even during the 90's and early 00's) Sweden and Finland almost always had their best players on the team, no matter if they were out of NHL or still playing at home (as before 90's when it wasnt as usual to move to NHL). Today we have the russians always going and so on. The problem has been mostly with the americans/canadiens not going and I believe it is heavily because of their leagues restrictions... you guys didn´t even send NHL-players for the olympics until like 98 or something, remember?

Do you think that was because of the "leagues restrictions"?

 

[Seanaconda]

The WHC still can´t be played properly due to NHLs schedule, making it impossible to ever have all the best players there so NHL still has to cut its season or change the dates. Why players choose not to go there is because its domino effect. They don´t want to go there to be the only "good" player, but as soon as your best players, Like Ovechkin, Crosby etc. says "I'll go" quite soon all the good players jumps on. So if you would have NHL being over by the time the WHC starts I'm sure players would not have the same fear of being left alone. Before the 90's (and even during the 90's and early 00's) Sweden and Finland almost always had their best players on the team, no matter if they were out of NHL or still playing at home (as before 90's when it wasnt as usual to move to NHL). Today we have the russians always going and so on. The problem has been mostly with the americans/canadiens not going and I believe it is heavily because of their leagues restrictions... you guys didn´t even send NHL-players for the olympics until like 98 or something, remember?

Yeah why don't they just change the date of the whc. The Russians always go to the whc when they can it's the good Canadians and Americans that don't.

 

[Lepardi]

We have plenty of national pride in hockey are you kidding me?

We do love our national team just as much Russians, Finns, and Swedes love theirs.

Do you love your Team North America just as much as people from Brussels, Berlin, Copenhagen and Oslo love their Team Europe?

Do you have lots of national pride for being North American? How great will it feel for you if the North American U24 nation wins the World Cup? I'm interested cause I personally don't feel national pride for being European. I'm Finnish by nationality, not European.

 

[snipes]

Do you have lots of national pride for being North American? How great will it feel for you if the North American U24 nation wins the World Cup? I'm interested cause I personally don't feel national pride for being European. I'm Finnish by nationality, not European.

As long as they don't play Canada I'll be cheering for them.

Canada and the USA are neighbours and close with each other as nations. But no, I won't cheer as if it was Canada. That's just how I see it, Canada and America have our own cultures but I think we see each other as brothers and family in a way as well. Just my opinion.

 

[Lepardi]

This rigging talk is pure trash. I'm sorry, but that's a bunch of poor loser talk.

I'm not Russian. I'm Finnish. Finland wouldn't have had any chance against either Canada or the Soviets in the 1980s, no matter what the refereeing and tournament format was like, so this has nothing to do with being a "poor loser". I have no reason to root for Russia or the Soviet Union against Canada. As a country I like Canada a lot more than I like Russia. I live next to Russia, but I've never visited the country and I have no plans of ever doing so because I've heard enough stories from my compatriots who have been. I will be going to Canada in September however, and I hope it's not my last time. I have also been to Sweden (that's our neighbor to the west, Russia's our neighbor to the east) dozens of times, so it's not like I have anything against traveling to a neighboring country in general.

So this is not about me rooting for the Soviets. I don't like the country or what it stood for. But I've seen the videos of the Canada Cups of the 1980s, and me not liking a country doesn't stop me from seeing the obvious referee bias against them. I also can't blame Alan Eagleson & co. for what they did. I think it was all done for a good cause, cause the Soviet system really deserved to collapse.